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Trying to buy a house that has "Bank Involvement"

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  • 23-03-2015 12:19am
    #1
    linkedin09
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭


    Hello All.

    I have made an offer on a property that the agent has told me has "Bank Involvement". Whether that means that the house has been repossessed or not I am not sure, but it does seem that there is some monies owed on the property. The house is vacant.

    My offer has been rejected according to the agent. The owner is looking for a cash deal for himself on top of my offer, which seems a bit suspicious and I simply don't have that kind of cash.

    Do I have any standing here at all? Should I consult the bank - or even try to find out which bank is involved?

    Cheers


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    #2
    Sitevalue
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Sitevalue


    Shady dealings. I'd stay away. Owner is trying to hide money from the bank and revenue. You don't have much to gain by going down this route but you do have your money to lose.


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    #3
    linkedin09
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭linkedin09


    Sitevalue wrote: »
    Shady dealings. I'd stay away. Owner is trying to hide money from the bank and revenue. You don't have much to gain by going down this route but you do have your money to lose.

    I'd say you are right - although I really like the place. I'm just wondering if the bank were told of my(very good) offer at all.


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    #4
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    It's a simple set up really.

    House gets sold for €250K + you give the 'owner' €25K in cash to complete the sale. As above totally illegal. Very little you can do, if you dob him in I doubt the bank will force a sale to you you can always try but expect a very lengthy process.


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    #5
    Uno my Uno.
    Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭Uno my Uno.


    linkedin09 wrote: »
    Hello All.

    I have made an offer on a property that the agent has told me has "Bank Involvement". Whether that means that the house has been repossessed or not I am not sure, but it does seem that there is some monies owed on the property. The house is vacant.

    My offer has been rejected according to the agent. The owner is looking for a cash deal for himself on top of my offer, which seems a bit suspicious and I simply don't have that kind of cash.

    Do I have any standing here at all? Should I consult the bank - or even try to find out which bank is involved?

    Cheers

    Do not walk away, run away from this sale as fast as you can. The seller here is in arrears and needs back consent for the sale, he wants to defraud the bank by having you pay him cash on top of the contract price which he will then pocket instead of giving it to the bank. You will also be defrauding the revenue because you won't pay stamp duty on the full amount of the sale. The entire thing is illegal and there is nothing in it for you so why would you do it.

    If the dealings start out this shady there will be further headaches down the line guaranteed.


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    #6
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,502 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Get out as fast as you can, and report the agent to the PSRA as he's fully aware he's complicit in fraud


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    #7
    Tefral
    Registered Users Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Wouldn't bother my arse to be honest with this. To force the sale the bank would have to become mortgagee in possession which would involve them having to repossess the house. That can only happen if the person voluntarely give it up or they take it back through the courts. Either way your looking a length process.

    I'm in the middle of it myself in purchasing. 2 years next month I'm waiting...


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    #8
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    linkedin09 wrote: »
    Hello All.

    I have made an offer on a property that the agent has told me has "Bank Involvement". Whether that means that the house has been repossessed or not I am not sure, but it does seem that there is some monies owed on the property. The house is vacant.

    My offer has been rejected according to the agent. The owner is looking for a cash deal for himself on top of my offer, which seems a bit suspicious and I simply don't have that kind of cash.

    Do I have any standing here at all? Should I consult the bank - or even try to find out which bank is involved?

    Cheers

    Main reason to stay away from it is that if the deal falls through, how will you get your cash "top up" back?

    No reputable solicitor would touch this.

    Make no mistake, this is criminal activity.


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    #9
    18MonthsaSlave
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 574 ✭✭✭18MonthsaSlave


    but defaulter retains benefit of the property while the banks which are with few exceptions being heavily supported by the public loose out.
    Your solicitor can run a property check to determine who has a mortgage registered against the property and then you can make an official offer for the house copying the mortgage provider on the formal offer.
    The risk with this is that the defaulter will strip the property bare out of badness. If you can afford this then go ahead. It is hard enough to find a property which suits and if you have no ongoing relationship with the defaulter you don't need to worry about hurting their feelings.
    You are not in this to win friends or support a mooch on society.


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    #10
    ElizaBT
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭ElizaBT


    linkedin09 wrote: »
    Hello All.

    I have made an offer on a property that the agent has told me has "Bank Involvement". Whether that means that the house has been repossessed or not I am not sure, but it does seem that there is some monies owed on the property. The house is vacant.

    My offer has been rejected according to the agent. The owner is looking for a cash deal for himself on top of my offer, which seems a bit suspicious and I simply don't have that kind of cash.

    Do I have any standing here at all? Should I consult the bank - or even try to find out which bank is involved?

    Cheers



    Hi just wondering how you got on with the agent asking for cash


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    #11
    MAJJ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭MAJJ


    They OP can't respond their in jail :)

    In case you didn't get my point or read the detail of the thread the above is illegal.


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    #12
    ElizaBT
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭ElizaBT


    MAJJ wrote: »
    They OP can't respond their in jail :)

    In case you didn't get my point or read the detail of the thread the above is illegal.

    I'm quite aware that it's illegal that's why I'm interested in same. As for the first line of your response what does it mean?


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    #13
    MAJJ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭MAJJ


    ElizaBT wrote: »
    I'm quite aware that it's illegal that's why I'm interested in same. As for the first line of your response what does it mean?
    I was just kidding the OP means original poster who are not likely to respond


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    #14
    neia
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭neia


    We have made an offer on house with bank involvement. Bank are looking for 80000 we offered 66000 last week. This climbed up from 50000 with various parties interested. Today estate agent rang saying someone offered 70000. So effectively we were highest bidder at 66000 for one week then estate agent said it was at 70000. How do we find out if we are bidding against ourselves? Estate agent said bank are keen to get to 80000. Not sure if they are trying to squeeze us. We said we were unable to go higher and estate agent sounded surprised and told us to keep calling if still interested.


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    #15
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    neia wrote: »
    How do we find out if we are bidding against ourselves?

    a Ouija board or your gut.


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    #16
    neia
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭neia


    Thanks for reply. Just very frustrated by the whole situation. It really is a guessing game. Might wait it out until next week.


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    #17
    househero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭househero


    neia wrote: »
    We have made an offer on house with bank involvement. Bank are looking for 80000 we offered 66000 last week. This climbed up from 50000 with various parties interested. Today estate agent rang saying someone offered 70000. So effectively we were highest bidder at 66000 for one week then estate agent said it was at 70000. How do we find out if we are bidding against ourselves? Estate agent said bank are keen to get to 80000. Not sure if they are trying to squeeze us. We said we were unable to go higher and estate agent sounded surprised and told us to keep calling if still interested.

    If its repossessed it will probably be advertised at the price the bank is owed + sales fees incurred. If you want the house and are happy paying asking, offer it and it will be accepted.

    BUT there maybe debt associated with the property you would have to pay and it could take 1-2 years to go through.


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    #18
    L'prof
    Registered Users Posts: 12,031 ✭✭✭✭L'prof


    We found ourselves in a similar position. We went sale agreed on a house last month. Estate agent informed us that the seller would reduce the sale price by €1k of we agreed to pay €5k of our offer in cash for "furniture" as all was included. We were quite happy to do this as we can just about afford it and not only do we save €1k up front but also about €2.5k in interest down the line.

    It seems to be common enough with these bank deals. The seller is obviously isn't going to get anything from the sale unless they go down this road. It's really up to you at the end of the day. If you feel you can afford this and don't have any objections to the idea, then why not?


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    #19
    L'prof
    Registered Users Posts: 12,031 ✭✭✭✭L'prof


    neia wrote: »
    We have made an offer on house with bank involvement. Bank are looking for 80000 we offered 66000 last week. This climbed up from 50000 with various parties interested. Today estate agent rang saying someone offered 70000. So effectively we were highest bidder at 66000 for one week then estate agent said it was at 70000. How do we find out if we are bidding against ourselves? Estate agent said bank are keen to get to 80000. Not sure if they are trying to squeeze us. We said we were unable to go higher and estate agent sounded surprised and told us to keep calling if still interested.

    You can't really. You could try and get a friend to ring up and enquire about the house, but I'm pretty sure they'll be told that it's at €70k at the moment just like you were. We were in the same position and the house went to asking price and suddenly there were no more bidders. You could always walk away and tell the estate agent to contact you if things fall through with the current highest bidders but it's risky business if you really want the house?


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    #20
    neia
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭neia


    Thanks so much guys. We think we will offer full price to secure it. Its an unfinished property but won't take much to finish it. Just don't see why they entertained bids at all, wasting everyone's time Although if it takes 1+ year to get it to go through we are out. Cant be dealing with that. Estate agent said there were no outstanding charges but obviously solicitor will suss all this out.


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    #21
    Uno my Uno.
    Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭Uno my Uno.


    L'prof wrote: »
    We found ourselves in a similar position. We went sale agreed on a house last month. Estate agent informed us that the seller would reduce the sale price by €1k of we agreed to pay €5k of our offer in cash for "furniture" as all was included. We were quite happy to do this as we can just about afford it and not only do we save €1k up front but also about €2.5k in interest down the line.

    It seems to be common enough with these bank deals. The seller is obviously isn't going to get anything from the sale unless they go down this road. It's really up to you at the end of the day. If you feel you can afford this and don't have any objections to the idea, then why not?

    Because it is fraud and illegal. The buyer gains nothing from doing this, compromises their position and if their solicitor finds out the are supposed to refuse to act.


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    #22
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    L'prof wrote: »
    It seems to be common enough with these bank deals. The seller is obviously isn't going to get anything from the sale unless they go down this road. It's really up to you at the end of the day. If you feel you can afford this and don't have any objections to the idea, then why not?

    Well apart from clearing more of the debt the legitimately owe. I'm sorry but this has dodgy written all over it. They're either in a position where they are insolvent and can proceed on that basis or they (and the people that get involved with them) are chancers.
    Uno my Uno. wrote: »
    Because it is fraud and illegal. The buyer gains nothing from doing this, compromises their position and if their solicitor finds out the are supposed to refuse to act.

    The only possible justification (although linked to the asking price is a bit suspect) is that the furniture etc. would not be something the loan is secured over - just playing devils advocate.


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    #23
    Uno my Uno.
    Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭Uno my Uno.


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    Well apart from clearing more of the debt the legitimately owe. I'm sorry but this has dodgy written all over it. They're either in a position where they are insolvent and can proceed on that basis or they (and the people that get involved with them) are chancers.



    The only possible justification (although linked to the asking price is a bit suspect) is that the furniture etc. would not be something the loan is secured over - just playing devils advocate.

    That should be reflected in the contract as contents included in sale and should be included in the contract purchase price. That isn't happening here, it's an under the table cash payment purely so as the bank are not aware of it.


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    #24
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    neia wrote: »
    How do we find out if we are bidding against ourselves?.
    Easily. Tell them you are not offering more than the 66k.


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    #25
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    Walk away. You'd be a fool to give them the money and pulling stunts like this, they make it more likely a receiver will be appointed.

    1. Letting them roast on the fire of their own greed is the right and proper thing to do.
    2. You could well lose that money on the side and have no house to show for it.


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    #26
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    linkedin09 wrote: »
    Hello All.

    I have made an offer on a property that the agent has told me has "Bank Involvement". Whether that means that the house has been repossessed or not I am not sure, but it does seem that there is some monies owed on the property. The house is vacant.

    My offer has been rejected according to the agent. The owner is looking for a cash deal for himself on top of my offer, which seems a bit suspicious and I simply don't have that kind of cash.

    Do I have any standing here at all? Should I consult the bank - or even try to find out which bank is involved?

    Cheers

    Let him rot in it.


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    #27
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    I encountered a similar situation last year after I had gone sale agreed on a property. The seller demanded 6000k as a sweetener. Reluctantly, I agreed to pay.

    The interesting bit was what happened after I agreed to the 6000k - the seller immediately demanded another 6000k, totalling 12,000k. Needless to say, I declined his offer. I have never seen an industry as rife with crooks and shysters of all kinds as the property industry.


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    #28
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    I encountered a similar situation last year after I had gone sale agreed on a property. The seller demanded 6000k as a sweetener. Reluctantly, I agreed to pay.

    The interesting bit was what happened after I agreed to the 6000k - the seller immediately demanded another 6000k, totalling 12,000k. Needless to say, I declined his offer. I have never seen an industry as rife with crooks and shysters of all kinds as the property industry.

    6/12 million? Eeek!

    Even at 6k you did the right thing in running away


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    #29
    Torrestheman
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Torrestheman


    Had a similar story in past six months. Same EA in both situations. Was looking for an even higher brown envelope amount. EA told me not to disclose what I was doing to EA. Sounded suss and checked with a relative who is a solicitor. They confirmed it would be fraudulent as a previous poster stated. It is bloody hard work saving a deposit and just as hard negotiating with these types.


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    #30
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Torrestheman wrote: »
    Had a similar story in past six months. Same EA in both situations. Was looking for an even higher brown envelope amount. EA told me not to disclose what I was doing to EA. Sounded suss and checked with a relative who is a solicitor. They confirmed it would be fraudulent as a previous poster stated. It is bloody hard work saving a deposit and just as hard negotiating with these types.

    Personally I'd report the EA to the PSRA and the vendor to revenue and the bank. Nothing will be done of course.


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