Buyers remorse.

TUBBY

Lads.

Opinions on this. Neighbour told me today he bought good few cattle privately on Saturday.
Fella selling them said they had one move and were bought by him as sucks.
did deal and got cards as proof while movement going through.

Anyway, turned out the lad only bought the cattle Wednesday cause there was a mart sale on back of card.

Neighbour hates lies and was pissed off. Fella was a dealer but there was no sign of it round his yard. I asked him had cattle any glue on back. He said he didn't notice it.

He is cancelling cheque in morning. Pissed off that the lad selling knew exactly what weight they were etc but played the fool when he questioned weight advertised as being wrong. I said if he thought they were decent value; so what.

His answer was that he had paid fairly well for them anyway and he didn't like the lies.

What ye reckon...

raypallas

I think its fair enough, if he was lied to about the number of moves the dealer could easily enough have lied about the weights of the cattle. Did he travel far to see these cattle?

Feckthis

I reckon your neighbour should do just that and cancel the check. Although he will have to meet and give the cattle back to the dealer there could be problems if they are already in his herd number as cattle have to be kept for so long before shifting again. Never trust a dealer is my advice
I got done before by a dealer from cork selling me AA calfs from jersey cows. Same fella was selling breeding heifers not one was suitable to go in-calf. F##ker knew well what he was at. Oh well ye learn the hard way I suppose....

Kovu

Feckthis wrote: »

I reckon your neighbour should do just that and cancel the check. Although he will have to meet and give the cattle back to the dealer there could be problems if they are already in his herd number as cattle have to be kept for so long before shifting again. Never trust a dealer is my advice
I got done before by a dealer from cork selling me AA calfs from jersey cows. Same fella was selling breeding heifers not one was suitable to go in-calf. F##ker knew well what he was at. Oh well ye learn the hard way I suppose....

If the paperwork was done on Saturday, I'd hope it could be cancelled if the dept was rang in the morning and stated that a transfer was made in error and should be stopped. I wonder if they could flag the herd number or something to prevent incoming movements.

I wouldn't say never trust a dealer, I spent my time around them. They have a habit of being liberal with the truth. Is he midlands Tubby? If so I'd prob know him!

One thing I'd ask though, were they bought wednesday and signed at the back or unsold Wednesday and stamped at the back? Your post reads like it could be either. Regardless of that he should have disclosed the weights from that day and not lead him astray, esp as cattle are flying so he wouldn't have trouble getting a buyer. I'd land them back to him if it were me anyway, in future tell him to do the paperwork with the guy on the spot and avoid the dealer herd numbers with the 85XX endings

TUBBY

Not 100% sure of details tbh. They were bought down south Wednesday. Dealer is south Midlands and me neighbour travelled prob an hour drive to see them I'd say.

Funny one was he usually buys private thru a mart with weighing ( I advised him to do this). He said this was dismissed by the seller when he said it. The cattle he is looking for are hard got so he went ahead.

To be honest I think my reaction to the price he paid based on his guess on weight (40kg less than advrttised) might not have helped the situation either. Personally thought he paid 50 yo yo a head too much from his description

Farrell

Kovu wrote: »

If the paperwork was done on Saturday, I'd hope it could be cancelled if the dept was rang in the morning and stated that a transfer was made in error and should be stopped.

You can correct me on this, but when buying privately the Owner requests a permit from the dept (whether Fax or agfood), then the purchaser completes to say transaction has taken place (fax or agfood), unless all this has being done through a mart.
If the last step has not being complete, there should be no issue returning, if it has as the above mention contact local DVO asap.
Worst case he could have to hold them for X days, to which he should charge the dealer €1/day/hd for looking after the stock

farmerjj

TUBBY wrote: »

Lads.

Opinions on this. Neighbour told me today he bought good few cattle privately on Saturday.
Fella selling them said they had one move and were bought by him as sucks.
did deal and got cards as proof while movement going through.

Anyway, turned out the lad only bought the cattle Wednesday cause there was a mart sale on back of card.

Neighbour hates lies and was pissed off. Fella was a dealer but there was no sign of it round his yard. I asked him had cattle any glue on back. He said he didn't notice it.

He is cancelling cheque in morning. Pissed off that the lad selling knew exactly what weight they were etc but played the fool when he questioned weight advertised as being wrong. I said if he thought they were decent value; so what.

His answer was that he had paid fairly well for them anyway and he didn't like the lies.

What ye reckon...

Could it be that he took them to the mart to sell, but brought them back as he might not have got what he was looking for.

onyerbikepat

All Cattle dealers should be made do a Business & Ethics course. We do them regularly in work.:D

Reggie.

onyerbikepat wrote: »

All Cattle dealers should be made do a Business & Ethics course. We do them regularly in work.:D

Best of luck with that

keep going

Tbh I cant see what the problem is, he went to see the cattle , he was happy with them , he agreed a price, just because they came through a dealer didnt change what the cattle were or the price.its too late to be telling him they were 50 euro to dear now

Squatman

my advice would be to suck it up and chalk it down to experience. He wont lose his shirt over it anyway. its part of the risk of buying. Plus, if he was genuine you would have paid that price or more so whats the difference?

Reggie.

keep going wrote: »

Tbh I cant see what the problem is, he went to see the cattle , he was happy with them , he agreed a price, just because they came through a dealer didnt change what the cattle were or the price.its too late to be telling him they were 50 euro to dear now

I think it's the amount of movements that's annoying the man.

I said

Reggie. wrote: »

I think it's the amount of movements that's annoying the man.

Unless the mart puts them up how would ya know,some of the blue cards aren't signed it's only when ya see on Ag food how many owners in some cases.
So if your not at the mart ye have no way of knowing.

Reggie.

I said wrote: »

Unless the mart puts them up how would ya know,some of the blue cards aren't signed it's only when ya see on Ag food how many owners in some cases.
So if your not at the mart ye have no way of knowing.

The blue cards should be signed for each owner shouldn't they.

I said

Reggie. wrote: »

The blue cards should be signed for each owner shouldn't they.

Yes that is my understanding of it

TUBBY

I said wrote: »

Yes that is my understanding of it

Two things annoying him.

One is that the seller was dishonest about origin of cattle so how can he trust movements etc.
If he just said he bought then a few days before I would imagine I wouldn't have even heard about it.
Second thing is prob that I didn't help saying they seemed cruel dear.

In any case, this lad is as straight as ya would get. Good neighbour etc. I would imagine he wouldn't dream of lying if selling something so it pissed him off.

I said

TUBBY wrote: »

Two things annoying him.

One is that the seller was dishonest about origin of cattle so how can he trust movements etc.
If he just said he bought then a few days before I would imagine I wouldn't have even heard about it.
Second thing is prob that I didn't help saying they seemed cruel dear.

In any case, this lad is as straight as ya would get. Good neighbour etc. I would imagine he wouldn't dream of lying if selling something so it pissed him off.

Yeah I rekon your right he is pissed that he got caught out and you jeering him over paying to much is really driving him mad.lol
Caveat emptor.

Farmer Pudsey

Squatman wrote: »

my advice would be to suck it up and chalk it down to experience. He wont lose his shirt over it anyway. its part of the risk of buying. Plus, if he was genuine you would have paid that price or more so whats the difference?

Difference is if there is more movements than on the cards. There are supposed to be second movement cattle. If any of these cattle have 3 or 4 movements they will be hard to sell in the mart again.

As op said they were bought at a mart a distance away and at this stage OP's friend has the cards so he knows who orginal owner are I presume.

It is one thing getting caught for 50 yoyo's on buying but on selling getting caught for 50-100 more is a p!sser

_Brian

I said wrote: »

Yeah I rekon your right he is pissed that he got caught out and you jeering him over paying to much is really driving him mad.lol
Caveat emptor.

Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware ??

I think if the buyer was lies to and strung a line on the origin and move ts if the cattle then he'd be right to throw them up. More this happens the less dealers will chance it which is better for everybody.
Chances are if he's not done it by now the cheque is already lodged ad he may not be able to stop it.

I hate messers and liars, do a straight deal or don't bother !!
If a fella has no word then he has nothing !!

I said

_Brian wrote: »

Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware ??

I think if the buyer was lies to and strung a line on the origin and move ts if the cattle then he'd be right to throw them up. More this happens the less dealers will chance it which is better for everybody.
Chances are if he's not done it by now the cheque is already lodged ad he may not be able to stop it.

I hate messers and liars, do a straight deal or don't bother !!
If a fella has no word then he has nothing !!

Aren't all dealers chancers that's the pitfalls of buying from dealers they'll plamas ya to buy.
He got stung make the best of it and get to the mart and buy the type of cattle he is after not some dealers were 9 are decent and an auld screw of a bullock is thrown in for the dealers benefit not the buyers.

Farmer Pudsey

I said wrote: »

Aren't all dealers chancers that's the pitfalls of buying from dealers they'll plamas ya to buy.
He got stung make the best of it and get to the mart and buy the type of cattle he is after not some dealers were 9 are decent and an auld screw of a bullock is thrown in for the dealers benefit not the buyers.

I have bought off dealers and off farmers. I have found a lot of dealers straight enough to deal with. Yes there are the lads that are pulling wool over people eyes but there is also the lad that will be trying to make sure he can deal with you again.

Farmers are the same buying out of yard some know the value of the cattle some however want the top mart price across 20 cattle even though they have a raggy one or two in the bunch and all will not make top dollar in the mart.

I do not know why you think he should make the best of it. If the dealer lied about how long he had them the movements may be wrong as well. I presume from OP's post that cherque is already stopped and dealer has been contacted. If movements are right Op's friend can always take the cattle if he is still inclined.

TUBBY

Just to update ye.
He threw up the cattle anyway.

Dont think it went down too well but he lot happier now.

he didnt even ask about movements.

Ye are right. if dealers were bit straighter, dont think the likes of this would happen.

I said

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have bought off dealers and off farmers. I have found a lot of dealers straight enough to deal with. Yes there are the lads that are pulling wool over people eyes but there is also the lad that will be trying to make sure he can deal with you again.

Farmers are the same buying out of yard some know the value of the cattle some however want the top mart price across 20 cattle even though they have a raggy one or two in the bunch and all will not make top dollar in the mart.

I do not know why you think he should make the best of it. If the dealer lied about how long he had them the movements may be wrong as well. I presume from OP's post that cherque is already stopped and dealer has been contacted. If movements are right Op's friend can always take the cattle if he is still inclined.

Well if he didn't think they were value at the time he should have left them behind instead then of getting upset.as OP says he got the cards as the deal was being done surely he would have copped that straight away if not happy looking at the cards he should have walked away.

AP2014

I said wrote: »

Well if he didn't think they were value at the time he should have left them behind instead then of getting upset.as OP says he got the cards as the deal was being done surely he would have copped that straight away if not happy looking at the cards he should have walked away.

Looking at the cards is a waste of time, it will only tell you their ages and breed. No one seems to sign them anymore, I only see movements on agfood.ie when in my herd. At that stage it's too late if you can't trust the dealer.

I said

AP2014 wrote: »

Looking at the cards is a waste of time, it will only tell you their ages and breed. No one seems to sign them anymore, I only see movements on agfood.ie when in my herd. At that stage it's too late if you can't trust the dealer.

Read OP at start of thread

AP2014

I said wrote: »

Read OP at start of thread

I did.

I said

TUBBY wrote: »

Lads.



Anyway, turned out the lad only bought the cattle Wednesday cause there was a mart sale on back of card.



What ye reckon...

That is the line it was on the cards he was given.

AP2014

I said wrote: »

That is the line it was on the cards he was given.

I know and I agree with ya he needs to suck it up. They could have moved another 10 times as well and it might not be on the cards. They are a waste of time as proof for movements.

Farmer Pudsey

I said wrote: »

Well if he didn't think they were value at the time he should have left them behind instead then of getting upset.as OP says he got the cards as the deal was being done surely he would have copped that straight away if not happy looking at the cards he should have walked away.

Looking at cards are a waste of time. This is especially true of cattle that hitting two year old. I have often got cards signed once or twice at back that have been moved 2-3 time in first six-eight months.

In one case cattle were moved as calves at three week, dealer moved them on a week later and they were sold again 3-4 weeks later. No detail on cards covering these movements. Back of cards were clean in this case except for mart detail. Not everyone is aware of mart number at back and it could be covered by attemped sale. Maybe he should have copped if cheque is in one name and cattle in another but as OP stated dealer himself seems not to have signed cards himself.

I have been burnt myself a few times like this. QA on cattle can be worth 40ish euro and on HE and AA it is worth as much again. It is actually worth more in a mart than in a factory.

Milked out

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Looking at cards are a waste of time. This is especially true of cattle that hitting two year old. I have often got cards signed once or twice at back that have been moved 2-3 time in first six-eight months.

In one case cattle were moved as calves at three week, dealer moved them on a week later and they were sold again 3-4 weeks later. No detail on cards covering these movements. Back of cards were clean in this case except for mart detail. Not everyone is aware of mart number at back and it could be covered by attemped sale. Maybe he should have copped if cheque is in one name and cattle in another but as OP stated dealer himself seems not to have signed cards himself.

I have been burnt myself a few times like this. QA on cattle can be worth 40ish euro and on HE and AA it is worth as much again. It is actually worth more in a mart than in a factory.

I'd say it won't be long till cards are gotten rid of anyway, all info is now on department profile on agfood so no real need for them and it's another thing they prob will save a few euro by not printing new and replacement cards every year

I said

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Looking at cards are a waste of time. This is especially true of cattle that hitting two year old. I have often got cards signed once or twice at back that have been moved 2-3 time in first six-eight months.

In one case cattle were moved as calves at three week, dealer moved them on a week later and they were sold again 3-4 weeks later. No detail on cards covering these movements. Back of cards were clean in this case except for mart detail. Not everyone is aware of mart number at back and it could be covered by attemped sale. Maybe he should have copped if cheque is in one name and cattle in another but as OP stated dealer himself seems not to have signed cards himself.

I have been burnt myself a few times like this. QA on cattle can be worth 40ish euro and on HE and AA it is worth as much again. It is actually worth more in a mart than in a factory.

You are right in what you have said with your experiences as have I been caught out as well but if the Wednesday movement was on the card there really is nothing the OP s buyer can do but learn from his error and check the card or date on the ones he was given in this instance.
May I ask the OP to give us a description of the animals bought eg breed,weight and age if he is in a position to do so?
No point in us arguing when we don't have all the facts.
Did the buyer mistake the date on back of the cards?(stupid question I know)he might have confused 14/15?
This might make things a little clearer for us all.

I said

Milked out wrote: »

I'd say it won't be long till cards are gotten rid of anyway, all info is now on department profile on agfood so no real need for them and it's another thing they prob will save a few euro by not printing new and replacement cards every year

Would be great alright but I doubt it

TUBBY

I said wrote: »

You are right in what you have said with your experiences as have I been caught out as well but if the Wednesday movement was on the card there really is nothing the OP s buyer can do but learn from his error and check the card or date on the ones he was given in this instance.
May I ask the OP to give us a description of the animals bought eg breed,weight and age if he is in a position to do so?
No point in us arguing when we don't have all the facts.
Did the buyer mistake the date on back of the cards?(stupid question I know)he might have confused 14/15?
This might make things a little clearer for us all.

they were black lim and angus yearlings.
no, sale was same week. Don't know full detail of conversations between them tbh but i know that my lad just had a bad feeling after seeing the mart stamp on card. He rang the dealer and he didn't deny it. More or less said that was what he had told him and never said they were sucks.
that finished it. Cheque cancelled.

Sheep breeder

i would say fair play to the dealer for catching another fool, you say your mate travelled over an hour journey to look at these cattle and only looked at the cards at the end,surely the first thing was to look at the cards to age the cattle and check the movements and if the mart box was stamped three days earlier would big ben not have rang in his head, the mart stamp is the same as the tagging system 11 and m101 is for carlow and up the line for 39 and m238 for wicklow,
around here our lorry man buys alot of the local mans cattle in the mart and delivers them home, you tell him what you want and how much to spend and you pay the mart, he will get the type of cattle at the price you want,
too many lads thing they can buy cattle in yards and are not at the races in weights or price per kilo.

I said

TUBBY wrote: »

they were black lim and angus yearlings.
no, sale was same week. Don't know full detail of conversations between them tbh but i know that my lad just had a bad feeling after seeing the mart stamp on card. He rang the dealer and he didn't deny it. More or less said that was what he had told him and never said they were sucks.
that finished it. Cheque cancelled.

Bad feeling after seeing the cards,sounds like yer man got into a panic for cattle and bought the first one he seen without to much thought .
Only when he sat down and thought about it he wanted out no harm in that.
He is a lucky man the dealer took them back as the fella says three sides to every story.

Farmer Pudsey

Sheep breeder wrote: »

i would say fair play to the dealer for catching another fool, you say your mate travelled over an hour journey to look at these cattle and only looked at the cards at the end,surely the first thing was to look at the cards to age the cattle and check the movements and if the mart box was stamped three days earlier would big ben not have rang in his head, the mart stamp is the same as the tagging system 11 and m101 is for carlow and up the line for 39 and m238 for wicklow,
around here our lorry man buys alot of the local mans cattle in the mart and delivers them home, you tell him what you want and how much to spend and you pay the mart, he will get the type of cattle at the price you want,
too many lads thing they can buy cattle in yards and are not at the races in weights or price per kilo.

I said wrote: »

Bad feeling after seeing the cards,sounds like yer man got into a panic for cattle and bought the first one he seen without to much thought .
Only when he sat down and thought about it he wanted out no harm in that.
He is a lucky man the dealer took them back as the fella says three sides to every story.

I think alot of lads here never buy cattle out of yards. I have often asked has owner cards at hand and 90% of the time he never has as cattle may be out in a field or yard may be away from house or he has not sorted them out.

So you are dependent on owners word. It is up to him to tell you the truth. It is up to him not to let you know how many owners,age,breed on card etc. In general you will have a fair idea from indvidual however not everyone can read the signs.

Because of AA/HE bonus and QA these issue are becoming more important. On a 200 euro margin where maybe nearly half that is dependent on movements or breed if a dealer or a farmer tells you porky's then I fail to see issues with reneaging on deal. Most farmers/dealers are online and can tell numbers of movements backs of cards are not dependent even if you have access to them.

Another issue that will raise it head over next few years is JE's registered as AA and I am waiting for a court case re same. A lot of these indviduals depend on lads being embarrased over being caught or on small town syndrome but business is business