Aritech CS250 'Ext Tamp Full'

flanzer

Hi guys,

I'm wondering if someone could help or point me in the right direction

Over the last week, we've been woken up twice in the middle of the night with the alarm going

On investigating, both events reported this error back

Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Act 74 0 A1

Hoping someone could help.

Thanks

altor

flanzer wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm wondering if someone could help or point me in the right direction

Over the last week, we've been woken up twice in the middle of the night with the alarm going

On investigating, both events reported this error back

Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Act 74 0 A1

Hoping someone could help.

Thanks

Ext tamper is the external bell.
I would check for a loose connection plus if the bell has moved the lid or tamper are not sitting correctly.

flanzer

altor wrote: »

Ext tamper is the external bell.
I would check for a loose connection plus if the bell has moved the lid or tamper are not sitting correctly.

Sound thanks. So your saying, remove bell cover, check tamper,check connections at the bell and replace bell cover? Then check connection at the control panel?

KoolKid

Yes that would be where to start. Paying particular attention to the resistor connections in the bell.
If all else fails it may be a problem with the bell.A temp fix would be to take the resistor from the bell & wire it across the Bell Hold Off & Turn connections in the panel. Leave the Bell Hold Off cable in place but remove the tamper return cable.

altor

flanzer wrote: »

Sound thanks. So your saying, remove bell cover, check tamper,check connections at the bell and replace bell cover? Then check connection at the control panel?

That is correct. It could be the bell box moved, loose connection or corrosion on the cables or tamper. You would need to check these.

flanzer

Thanks for all that information.

Nothing has been moved. Control panel and bell have been in situ since it was installed back in 2006

I suppose when I open the bell cover I hope the problem will be obvious enough!

altor

flanzer wrote: »

Thanks for all that information.

Nothing has been moved. Control panel and bell have been in situ since it was installed back in 2006

I suppose when I open the bell cover I hope the problem will be obvious enough!

Hopefully, if not you may need to close off the tamper in the box to test.
More than likely moved or loose connection if its not showing all the time.

flanzer

altor wrote: »

Hopefully, if not you may need to close off the tamper in the box to test.
More than likely moved or loose connection if its not showing all the time.

Yes, only happened twice in the last week and half actually. Unfortunately happened last night while we were away, so woke the neighbours up

altor

flanzer wrote: »

Yes, only happened twice in the last week and half actually. Unfortunately happened last night while we were away, so woke the neighbours up

Hopefully in your case it will be a easy fix.

zzap64

Are you sure the :

Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Act 74 0 A1

is related to a bell tamper error? My system (the same as above) always shows that line in the log when an alarm has gone off, but if you scroll down another line or two I see what zone set off the alarm with the same timestamp. I can list the complete sequence of events if you like.

KoolKid

Yes.
It sounds like a problem with the external bell or its wiring. Every time the ext bell activates it is causing a tamper.

zzap64

Interesting, so in my case (and it's always been like this as far as I can remember) when something in a zone sets off a burglar event / notification, the bell goes off and then a tamper event also happens?

There has never been an EXT tamper and bell event on their own, there's always a specific window / door zone proceeding it. So maybe the noise / vibrations of the external bell going off, just causes the tamper event?

flanzer

zzap64 wrote: »

Are you sure the :

Ext Tamp Full Area 1
Act 74 0 A1

is related to a bell tamper error? My system (the same as above) always shows that line in the log when an alarm has gone off, but if you scroll down another line or two I see what zone set off the alarm with the same timestamp. I can list the complete sequence of events if you like.

Yes, the previous line shows the alarm being activated at 23:33. Next line is the 'Ext Tamp Full' error.

I've a lend of a ladder this evening. Had a quick look last night without actually doing anything due to the time it was. I can see that the installer wired it from the control panel, though a small connector/junction box above the control panel, then through the hot press, onto the attic, onto the bell box.

I'd say there's a connection issue in either of the 3 places (control panel, connector, bell box). The connector/junction box may have to issue due to vibrations of us walking across the landing (with a bit of luck!)

flanzer

Right, having looked at it, I'm 99.99% sure, it's the tamper button on the external bell! Even the slightest of touches, before even unscrewing the bolt, set the alarm off. I've reset the cover again now

Now next question!!..... how can I turn the siren off when I remove the cover, as I need to investigate if the tamper button is sticky. I foolishly don't have ear defenders. Do I need the engineer code? (for which I don't have, as the guy that fitted it, is no longer in business)


Thanks

edit: I'm thinking page 14 here does the trick (when cover is removed) http://altor.ie/doc/CS250_User_Guide.pdf

KoolKid

Sounds like some wiring is wrong. I've seen it done before where an installer would be short on cables and use the bell trigger to drop the hold off.

altor

flanzer wrote: »

Right, having looked at it, I'm 99.99% sure, it's the tamper button on the external bell! Even the slightest of touches, before even unscrewing the bolt, set the alarm off. I've reset the cover again now

Now next question!!..... how can I turn the siren off when I remove the cover, as I need to investigate if the tamper button is sticky. I foolishly don't have ear defenders. Do I need the engineer code? (for which I don't have, as the guy that fitted it, is no longer in business)


Thanks

edit: I'm thinking page 14 here does the trick (when cover is removed) http://altor.ie/doc/CS250_User_Guide.pdf

The siren is working correctly if you open the cover and it activates.
If it activates with the slightest of touches then it is more than likely the tamper switch which needs looking at. Only way of silencing in to disconnect the siren when you open the bell.

The manual is only given you the option to inhibit a tamper condition if it is showing open so you can set the alarm.

flanzer

I'm going to get ear defenders in work tomorrow, but in the time that I had the cover off, I gave to tamper switch a good prodding in and out for 20 seconds or so, then tightened the bolt on the cover tight.

Touching the cover when that was done, didn't set anything off, so it may be fixed. Thanks for all your help thus far

altor

flanzer wrote: »

I'm going to get ear defenders in work tomorrow, but in the time that I had the cover off, I gave to tamper switch a good prodding in and out for 20 seconds or so, then tightened the bolt on the cover tight.

Touching the cover when that was done, didn't set anything off, so it may be fixed. Thanks for all your help thus far

If you hold the tamper closed and ask someone to turn off the alarm the fault should disappear and the alarm should stop sounding. I would say it just moved and needed to be adjusted and closed again. I would leave it for a while and if it goes off again go back at it.

zzap64

KoolKid wrote: »

Sounds like some wiring is wrong. I've seen it done before where an installer would be short on cables and use the bell trigger to drop the hold off.

I assume this reply was directed at me?

It was installed years ago but I do remember him mentioning some problem with wiring being too short and having to use wiring that was meant to go to a PIR or something like...

So while obviously not best practice, it's not really a problem is it?

KoolKid

It wouldn't be ideal, reading above maybe you have it sorted. The easy way to check is when everything is clear set the alarm again & see if the Ext Tamper reappears.
Let me know how you get on.

altor

zzap64 wrote: »

I assume this reply was directed at me?

It was installed years ago but I do remember him mentioning some problem with wiring being too short and having to use wiring that was meant to go to a PIR or something like...

So while obviously not best practice, it's not really a problem is it?

I would say its when the bell triggers and activates it in turn vibrates and sets off the bell tamper. When you turn it off it stops vibrating and returns to normal. I would check the tamper switch.

zzap64

The tamper only show up in the log after another event, like a sensor going off. Always done this as far as I remember.

I'll mention it to an installer when I get one out but I would assume as mentioned above that it was set up that way because of the cable shortage / missing etc.

KoolKid

Is it still doing the same thing?

altor

zzap64 wrote: »

The tamper only show up in the log after another event, like a sensor going off. Always done this as far as I remember.

I'll mention it to an installer when I get one out but I would assume as mentioned above that it was set up that way because of the cable shortage / missing etc.

So from the log you have an alarm activation be that a door or window then your alarm activates which vibrates the bell as it activates and the tamper moves causing it to log in the event log.
The tamper may just need to be made tighter when the lid closes to fix.

zzap64

Yeap, that's basically it. The tamper only happens when another event happens first, e.g. window event. So the tamper and alarm have never gone off just together, there has always been something before to trigger.

altor

zzap64 wrote: »

Yeap, that's basically it. The tamper only happens when another event happens first, e.g. window event. So the tamper and alarm have never gone off just together, there has always been something before to trigger.

I would have him check the switch and wiring in the bell.

KoolKid

zzap64 wrote: »

Yeap, that's basically it. The tamper only happens when another event happens first, e.g. window event. So the tamper and alarm have never gone off just together, there has always been something before to trigger.

Have you ever had a ext bell tamper activation without a preceding alarm event.
I would normally expect a tamper fault on a loose switch or connection to be more intermittent. If the vibration from the siren activates the tamper I would imagine many other environmental events would have the same effect.
Anyway, as it's easily reproduced I would say it will be an easy diagnosis.
Let us know what happens.