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Tenant moving out. Water charges?

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  • 21-03-2015 10:24pm
    #1
    monkey8
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭


    I have a tenant moving out of my apartment on 31st of march. He had not yet signed up for water charges. Is he liable for a portion of the yearly charge?
    Should I take it from his deposit?


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    #2
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    As landlord you are able to provide the tenants details to irish water.

    I'm sure some anti water communist will waffle on about data protection now so I suggest contacting the ODPC who will confirm you can pass on the details. The charge should then be attached to the tenant


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    #3
    SimonTheITGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭SimonTheITGuy


    garhjw wrote: »
    As landlord you are able to provide the tenants details to irish water.

    I'm sure some anti water communist will waffle on about data protection now so I suggest contacting the ODPC who will confirm you can pass on the details. The charge should then be attached to the tenant

    I'm no communist but I think the "details" you are allowed supply are basically just contact details (name/telephone) for IW to contact the tenant directly asking them to sign up, register for the conservation grant, etc. But like everything attached to IW since it's inception , this is not a clearly defined process.


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    #4
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,310 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Folks, this is t he accommodation & Property forum. Take the politics and sniping elsewhere.
    garhjw wrote: »
    anti water communist
    No need for comments like this.

    Moderator


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    #5
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    If not registered, take it from the deposit.


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    #6
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Icepick wrote: »
    If not registered, take it from the deposit.

    This is what the Minister has stated- if the tenant does not register- the landlord should deduct it from the deposit.

    Its shambles though..........


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    #7
    monkey8
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭monkey8


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    This is what the Minister has stated- if the tenant does not register- the landlord should deduct it from the deposit.

    Its shambles though..........

    It a single tenant in a one bed apartment. Is that €240/year?
    Am I within my rights to take €60 from deposit to cover January to March?


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    #8
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    monkey8 wrote: »
    It a single tenant in a one bed apartment. Is that €240/year?
    Am I within my rights to take €60 from deposit to cover January to March?

    Ring Irish Water and ask them what the bill would be for a 1 bed unmetered unregistered property.

    Its €160 with a €100 rebate for me in my apartment.


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    #9
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    This is what the Minister has stated- if the tenant does not register- the landlord should deduct it from the deposit.

    Its shambles though..........

    Legally that is a minefield and landlords could find themselves in front of the prtb and forced to repay the deduction as well as compensation.

    Legally the only thing the landlord can do is inform Irish water that the tenant has lived there from January to march and left on xx date in march

    It is then up to Irish water to chase the tenant for any money owed up to the xx date in march and the landlord is only liable for the bill from that date!

    The landlord can only deduct from the deposit for certain costs and these do not include unpaid utilities where the bills are in the tenants names as these bills are not owed by the landlord and the landlord has no liability or obligation to the utility company for the bill amount.


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    #10
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    monkey8 wrote: »
    It a single tenant in a one bed apartment. Is that €240/year?
    Am I within my rights to take €60 from deposit to cover January to March?
    Check the lease agreement. That is your contract with your tenant.
    Anything else is solicitation.
    If you did not sign anything with Irish Water yourself, then it is none of your business.
    If you did sign up with Irish water, then you are offering to be a customer, not your tenants. Which means you refer back to the lease agreement.


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    #11
    SimonTheITGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭SimonTheITGuy


    Torakx wrote: »
    Check the lease agreement. That is your contract with your tenant.
    Anything else is solicitation.

    "Anything else", apart from all the rights under the RTA 2004 act you mean? Tenants/landlords have a lot of statutory rights which are not contained in the lease agreement, and nothing in the lease can diminish those rights.


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    #12
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Torakx wrote: »
    Check the lease agreement. That is your contract with your tenant.
    Anything else is solicitation.
    If you did not sign anything with Irish Water yourself, then it is none of your business.
    If you did sign up with Irish water, then you are offering to be a customer, not your tenants. Which means you refer back to the lease agreement.

    Not so.
    A lease can confer additional rights on a tenant, to those in the RTA- and/or other legislation- however, it cannot supercede rights and obligations as dictated in legislation. The Residential Tenancies Act- is not the only legislation in play here.

    The Water Services Bill of 2015- has its heads of bill published- and is item no. 17 on the legislative agenda for this term of the houses of the Oireachtas. It is supposed to plug all the holes that remain in legislation after the 2014 Water Services Bill (from last November).

    The legislative agenda for the Spring-Summer period can be viewed here

    Until such time as the bill is finalised- the understanding is that Irish Water have a priority rating in tenant's deposits- and in the absence of a registration associated with a property, the onus falls back on the owner of the property to discharge any water charges associated with the property.

    The Minister has said there will be a 'passport type system unveiled whereby a water account is associated with a tenant and not with the property'. It is hypothesised that this will be in the 2015 Bill- it is not provided for in legislation as it stands.


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    #13
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    The landlord can only deduct from the deposit for certain costs and these do not include unpaid utilities where the bills are in the tenants name.

    Didn't the OP state the tenant hadn't put the bill in his name?


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    #14
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Graham wrote: »
    Didn't the OP state the tenant hadn't put the bill in his name?
    It doesn't matter, all the landlord has to do is inform Irish water that the property was let and that the tenant was there from January(or start of tenancy) to March and give the tenants name and new address if known.

    Basically the landlord can't legally be liable for charges for times that the property is occupied by tenant(s).

    If a landlord finds out that a tenant has not paid the esb or gas before leaving they are not allowed to deduct the amount from the deposit to pay these outstanding bills as they are the responsibility of the tenant once the bills are in the tenants name, once the Landlord tells the water crowd the tenants name and dates of start/end of tenancy the LL has no responsibility or obligation for any water charges for that period!

    Irish water would prefer not to tell landlords this as they want the landlords to collect the unpaid bills for them as it saves them money but legally a landlord may not deduct from a deposit for bills that the landlord is not liable for!


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    #15
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    So the ideal case is for landlords to seek a forwarding address to send a cheque for the deposit to?


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    #16
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    athtrasna wrote: »
    So the ideal case is for landlords to seek a forwarding address to send a cheque for the deposit to?
    A forwarding address is not required for Irish Water, once the LL gives the name of the tenant and start date of tenancy then that should be enough.

    It is not the landlords job to chase up people who fail to pay the water or any other utility bills!


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    #17
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    A forwarding address is not required for Irish Water, once the LL gives the name of the tenant and start date of tenancy then that should be enough.

    It is not the landlords job to chase up people who fail to pay the water or any other utility bills!

    At time of registration I spoke to IW about tenant registration and payment. They said if tenant does not register, owner is sent the bill. This is one of the shortcomings to be addressed with future legislation, but in the meantime the minister did say that LLs can deduct water charges from the deposit.


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    #18
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    davo10 wrote: »
    At time of registration I spoke to IW about tenant registration and payment. They said if tenant does not register, owner is sent the bill. This is one of the shortcomings to be addressed with future legislation, but in the meantime the minister did say that LLs can deduct water charges from the deposit.

    This is the problem........
    If the tenant does not register- the bill is associated with the property- and by extension- the landlord- and not the tenant.

    At this stage- the only comeback the landlord has is to deduct it from the deposit. Further- there will be assumptions made about how many people live in the apartment- aka a 1 bed apartment has 2 adults etc etc- and there is no deduction allowed for medical conditions and/or the social welfare 'rebate'.

    The whole mess is not going to be resolved- before the 2015 bill meanders through the Oireachtas. It is likely the bill will not be enacted before 2016- meaning 2015 is a grey-grey area..........

    As it stands- the 2014 Bill, warts and all- is all we have to work with.........


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    #19
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    A forwarding address is not required for Irish Water, once the LL gives the name of the tenant and start date of tenancy then that should be enough.

    It is not the landlords job to chase up people who fail to pay the water or any other utility bills!

    It is when the LL is expected to pay the bill when the tenant doesn't.


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