Named Driver Insurance Question

Scirpt

This is rather confusing so bare with me. We're buying a new car and I (18) want to get insured on it as a named driver. My mother is a named driver on my father's policy and does not have her own policy. Can she open her own policy? Can she avail of the "Named Driver Experience Discount" that she's accumulated over the years being a named driver on my father's policy when she buys this policy?

She rang Aviva today about the online quote we received and they said that she needs to send in a form to receive a quote even though we received one online, is this normal procedure? Why can't we just buy the one online? It's very reasonable (€900 for a 1.8 08 Focus) and includes an online discount and it's also easier than filling out a form.

If anyone can help me out with any of this it would be appreciated. Sorry that it's so confusing!

ardmacha

Your mother can take out insurance and may get a good deal if she was a named driver for many years. Adding an 18 year old will greatly increase the price though.

CarrickMcJoe

As above, I queried this only today. Quoted €4000 for 18 yr old in a 1.1 car in his own name but to register the car in mothers name (shes named on my policy) and him as named driver works out at €1800. Still daylight robbery.

Scirpt

ardmacha wrote: »

Your mother can take out insurance and may get a good deal if she was a named driver for many years. Adding an 18 year old will greatly increase the price though.

If she can take out insurance why are Aviva telling her she has to send in a form for a quote when we already have one online which is very reasonable since the cheapest quote I received on my own policy was €2400 with coverinaclick.

If we bought the insurance online could it be invalid for any reason?

Scirpt

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

As above, I queried this only today. Quoted €4000 for 18 yr old in a 1.1 car in his own name but to register the car in mothers name (shes named on my policy) and him as named driver works out at €1800. Still daylight robbery.

Try AA and Aviva for an online quote if you haven't already. They were the cheapest by far for us.

goz83

What you are describing is known as "fronting". You are wanting to put your mothers name on the policy and add yourself as the second driver, where in fact, you will be the main and possibly the only driver. This is why they are asking her to send in a form. The new quote will likely be multiples of what you got online and rightly so. Do it the right way and don't be going committing insurance fraud.....because that's what you are doing. Tell them a lie and get a policy under false pretenses and if you are involved in an accident, you could be pursued for the loss.

What kind of car is it?

Your attitude to driving is clearly wrong. Post number 3
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=92706706

Del2005

Scirpt wrote: »

This is rather confusing so bare with me. We're buying a new car and I (18) want to get insured on it as a named driver. My mother is a named driver on my father's policy and does not have her own policy. Can she open her own policy? Can she avail of the "Named Driver Experience Discount" that she's accumulated over the years being a named driver on my father's policy when she buys this policy?

She rang Aviva today about the online quote we received and they said that she needs to send in a form to receive a quote even though we received one online, is this normal procedure? Why can't we just buy the one online? It's very reasonable (€900 for a 1.8 08 Focus) and includes an online discount and it's also easier than filling out a form.

If anyone can help me out with any of this it would be appreciated. Sorry that it's so confusing!

Scirpt wrote: »

If she can take out insurance why are Aviva telling her she has to send in a form for a quote when we already have one online which is very reasonable since the cheapest quote I received on my own policy was €2400 with coverinaclick.

There must have been a reason why you called Aviva when you had an online quote. What was the question that caused you to ring them and them to inform you that you needed to submit a different form?

Scirpt wrote: »

If we bought the insurance online could it be invalid for any reason?

Yes, if they think it's a fraudulent proposal or you don't supply the required documents in the specified time frame.

coylemj

Scirpt wrote: »

.... We're buying a new car and I (18) want to get insured on it as a named driver.

What with the 'we're buying a new car' - you and who else?

Scirpt wrote: »

She rang Aviva today about the online quote we received and they said that she needs to send in a form to receive a quote even though we received one online, is this normal procedure? Why can't we just buy the one online? It's very reasonable (€900 for a 1.8 08 Focus) and includes an online discount and it's also easier than filling out a form.

It's sticking out a mile that you liked the online quote, couldn't wait to take out the policy and now resent the fact that they want you to fill out a form which you're concerned will involve some awkward questions. It's also obvious that this is a fronting exercise.

To Elland Back

Scirpt wrote: »

If we bought the insurance online could it be invalid for any reason?

If you misrepresent your circumstances in order to obtain cover, it is preferable for them to have it in writing, rather than an online application. Much handier for them to take any action they deem appropriate. Still easy enough if you do it online though

Scirpt

All of the information I gave them online is correct and they gave me a quote for it. I would understand if it did what many other companies do in this situation and just have a message pop up saying "Sorry we can't give you a quote for this, please call us on X". Of course I would rather take a cheaper quote with the price of insurance and shouldn't I be able to provided all of the information I have given online is correct?

I'm not sure how people can expect an 18 year old driver to buy their own policy first time. I've been driving over a year as a named driver and its still minimum €2400. If it was something reasonable like €1500 I would buy it but for now I'm stuck with going as a named driver.

9de5q7tsr8u2im

Can you guys not apply for the 6 months free insurance with 13 lessons?

Scirpt

coylemj wrote: »

What with the 'we're buying a new car' - you and who else?



It's sticking out a mile that you liked the online quote, couldn't wait to take out the policy and now resent the fact that they want you to fill out a form which you're concerned will involve some awkward questions. It's also obvious that this is a fronting exercise.

It's not the awkward questions, I don't see why you're judging me so much. I don't want to fill out the form because:
1) The car hasn't been purchased yet and on the form it requires you to tick a box that says you are the registered owner of the car, and my mother will not be the registered owner of the car until we get a reasonable quote.
2) Theres a 15% discount for buying your quote online. Is it such a crime I would like to save at least €150?
3) Buying a quote online is easier as the policy start date can be changed while on a form you would have to send another in to get a new date.

Scirpt

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

Can you guys not apply for the 6 months free insurance with 13 lessons?

I'm a full licence driver, I've been driving for over a year.

To Elland Back

Scirpt wrote: »

All of the information I gave them online is correct and they gave me a quote for it..

I presume the quote you obtained was in your mother's name. Was she asked any questions about who was the main user of the vehicle?

Scirpt

To Elland Back wrote: »

I presume the quote you obtained was in your mother's name. Was she asked any questions about who was the main user of the vehicle?

On the online quote it asks you who will be the main driver. When she called them she told them she will be the main driver but she wasn't asked any more questions about it.

She was asked if she ever had a policy of her own and she replied that she did but many years ago. The woman on the other line said she will need to send in a form then, as if she's going to get a better discount. But I don't see how she's going to get a better discount when there's a 15% online discount and she already has the max no claims discount. I should have said this in the original post but I forgot.

All I want to know is if the online quote will be valid.

Scirpt

Also in the assumptions it says this:

"This No Claims Discount is not in use on any other active policy (you earn the no-claims discount on each car separately if you insure more than one car and the same No Claim discount cannot be in use at the same time on more than one policy)."

Is her named driver experience being used on the policy she is a named driver on, or is this only in regards to having your own policy?

To Elland Back

Scirpt wrote: »

Also in the assumptions it says this:

"This No Claims Discount is not in use on any other active policy (you earn the no-claims discount on each car separately if you insure more than one car and the same No Claim discount cannot be in use at the same time on more than one policy)."

Is her named driver experience being used on the policy she is a named driver on, or is this only in regards to having your own policy?

A No Claims Discount is not the same as an introductory Named Driver Discount. That could be your issue

ironclaw

Its perfectly normal to be sent forms from an online quote. And for them to request documents from you in return. The online quote is merely a convenience but its not copper fastened until you have all the documents signed and sent back. Their are legal implications of insurance that cannot be covered by online processes alone.

Honestly, if you are going to be the main user of the car then you are shooting yourself in the foot by being a named driver. The more years you can have in your own name, the better. 'Named experience' has little weight after a few years, I think last time I asked, the ratio was 4:1 (Named versus own) so the sooner you have it in your own name, the more you will save in the long run.

challengemaster

ironclaw wrote: »

Its perfectly normal to be sent forms from an online quote. And for them to request documents from you in return. The online quote is merely a convenience but its not copper fastened until you have all the documents signed and sent back. Their are legal implications of insurance that cannot be covered by online processes alone.

Wut? I've never had to sign anything, ever.

guil

Scirpt wrote: »

I'm not sure how people can expect an 18 year old driver to buy their own policy first time. I've been driving over a year as a named driver and its still minimum €2400. If it was something reasonable like €1500 I would buy it but for now I'm stuck with going as a named driver.

You're not the only one to have to pay high insurance. When I was 18 I had to pay €3800 on a 1.1 fiesta. After I got the full licence it was still about €3k

Vic_08

Scirpt wrote: »

On the online quote it asks you who will be the main driver. When she called them she told them she will be the main driver but she wasn't asked any more questions about it.

But that is not true is it? Put that in writing and have your mother sign it and you will both be exposed should the insurance company decide to question the validity of the policy. They will issue the policy, take your money and do nothing about it however insurance companies know the tricks that people use and will if it is in their interest void a policy.

Scirpt

ironclaw wrote: »

Its perfectly normal to be sent forms from an online quote. And for them to request documents from you in return. The online quote is merely a convenience but its not copper fastened until you have all the documents signed and sent back. Their are legal implications of insurance that cannot be covered by online processes alone.

Honestly, if you are going to be the main user of the car then you are shooting yourself in the foot by being a named driver. The more years you can have in your own name, the better. 'Named experience' has little weight after a few years, I think last time I asked, the ratio was 4:1 (Named versus own) so the sooner you have it in your own name, the more you will save in the long run.

Actually, named driver experience discount is now equal to no claims discount with the majority of insurance companies (including Aviva). If I was put as named driver on a policy and never drove a day in my life, in five years time I would have a 50% discount on my own policy. Where the hell is the logic in that? Don't believe me? Go get a quote with Aviva with 5 years no claims bonus and 5 years named driver discount and there will be a marginal difference. It is silly to purchase your own policy at 18 unless you get a very fair deal, especially considering how little I will be driving.

Vic_08 wrote: »

But that is not true is it? Put that in writing and have your mother sign it and you will both be exposed should the insurance company decide to question the validity of the policy. They will issue the policy, take your money and do nothing about it however insurance companies know the tricks that people use and will if it is in their interest void a policy.

How are we breaking any rules here. I will be a named driver on the car along with my father. I will drive maximum 20 minutes per day bar the odd occasion every month or two while my mother will be using it for at least 45 minutes a day.

What is the point of the insurance companies allowing you to put named drivers on the car if they aren't going to be allowed to drive it. By putting my father on the policy it reduced it by €250 even though he may never drive it more than once or twice. It's not my fault the insurance company doesn't use logistics.

guil wrote: »

You're not the only one to have to pay high insurance. When I was 18 I had to pay €3800 on a 1.1 fiesta. After I got the full licence it was still about €3k

You got ripped off.

ironclaw

Actually, named driver experience discount is now equal to no claims discount with the majority of insurance companies (including Aviva). If I was put as named driver on a policy and never drove a day in my life, in five years time I would have a 50% discount on my own policy. Where the hell is the logic in that? Don't believe me? Go get a quote with Aviva with 5 years no claims bonus and 5 years named driver discount and there will be a marginal difference. It is silly to purchase your own policy at 18 unless you get a very fair deal, especially considering how little I will be driving.

Thats incorrect on a lot of levels. There is a huge difference between named and own driving experience. As you rightly said, someone who is named may never drive. Someone with their own policy most likely does. Hence the difference. Within the same company, it probably makes no odds. But try and transfer between companies, and you'll notice the difference very quickly.

If the case you were making was correct, then everyone here is wrong and has been wrong for years.

What is the point of the insurance companies allowing you to put named drivers on the car if they aren't going to be allowed to drive it. By putting my father on the policy it reduced it by €250 even though he may never drive it more than once or twice. It's not my fault the insurance company doesn't use logistics.

The idea is the main driver will drive the car for 51% of the time i.e. They will be the primary driver. Back in the good old days, this was the main calculation for the probability of an accident. However, with some much fooling and fronting going on, they now load on the highest risk driver regardless of the other experience. The idea of having your mother or father on the policy is generally seen as a damping factor for reckless behavior. Either way, they are making money. Also, it makes good marketing 'Little Johnny got a reduction because I was put on the policy with Aviva etc'

Also, its statistics and probability, not logistics.

You got ripped off.

Yes, you will along with every single Irish motorist. The sooner you accept, the better. And more importantly, the second you think you've outsmarted an insurance company is the second it will all come crashing around your ears.

Scirpt

ironclaw wrote: »

Thats incorrect on a lot of levels. There is a huge difference between named and own driving experience. As you rightly said, someone who is named may never drive. Someone with their own policy most likely does. Hence the difference. Within the same company, it probably makes no odds. But try and transfer between companies, and you'll notice the difference very quickly.

If the case you were making was correct, then everyone here is wrong and has been wrong for years.



The idea is the main driver will drive the car for 51% of the time i.e. They will be the primary driver. Back in the good old days, this was the main calculation for the probability of an accident. However, with some much fooling and fronting going on, they now load on the highest risk driver regardless of the other experience. The idea of having your mother or father on the policy is generally seen as a damping factor for reckless behavior. Either way, they are making money. Also, it makes good marketing 'Little Johnny got a reduction because I was put on the policy with Aviva etc'

Also, its statistics and probability, not logistics.



Yes, you will along with every single Irish motorist. The sooner you accept, the better. And more importantly, the second you think you've outsmarted an insurance company is the second it will all come crashing around your ears.

How am I cheating the insurance company when I won't be the main driver? Is this not the point of named drivers? And it's not like the insurance is the same price as it would be for my mother on her own. It would probably be about €250 for her and my father so I am still paying quite a bit to be named on the policy.

ironclaw

Scirpt wrote: »

How am I cheating the insurance company when I won't be the main driver? Is this not the point of named drivers? And it's not like the insurance is the same price as it would be for my mother on her own. It would probably be about €250 for her and my father so I am still paying quite a bit to be named on the policy.

I think we have crossed wires here! Sorry.

What I was saying, and I'm not saying you are, but if you were the main driver (i.e. The majority of the time you were driving) but you were in fact a named driver (And your parent the main driver), then that would be wrong. The idea of named drivers is, at the moment, for people under 25 (Who don't qualify for 'open driver' policies to be able to drive cars they don't own or have their own policy on. The assumption being of course, that they don't in fact use the car as a main driver would.

CarrickMcJoe

Scirpt wrote: »

Try AA and Aviva for an online quote if you haven't already. They were the cheapest by far for us.

That was Aviva, haven't tried AA, but will closer the time.

Scirpt

ironclaw wrote: »

I think we have crossed wires here! Sorry.

What I was saying, and I'm not saying you are, but if you were the main driver (i.e. The majority of the time you were driving) but you were in fact a named driver (And your parent the main driver), then that would be wrong. The idea of named drivers is, at the moment, for people under 25 (Who don't qualify for 'open driver' policies to be able to drive cars they don't own or have their own policy on. The assumption being of course, that they don't in fact use the car as a main driver would.

To be honest I always thought that if you were a named driver you could drive as much as the main driver. But how can an insurance company ever find out who is the real main driver though? It seems like an unenforceable rule.

guil

Why did your mother bother ringing aviva if she got a quote online? You can buy it there and then.

Scirpt

guil wrote: »

Why did your mother bother ringing aviva if she got a quote online? You can buy it there and then.

She had a question. My father is also going to be on the policy and he reduced it by about €250 for whatever reason. We found that hard to believe and presumed it was because it put his no claims bonus at risk even if he didn't have an accident. When she called them they confirmed that his no claims bonus wouldn't be affected if she or another named driver had an accident. That's when they told her she had to send in a form, still not sure why. Upon looking at the form now I see that there's nothing on it that the online quote doesn't have other than confirming you own the vehicle, really, really bizarre.

goz83

Scirpt wrote: »

All of the information I gave them online is correct and they gave me a quote for it. I would understand if it did what many other companies do in this situation and just have a message pop up saying "Sorry we can't give you a quote for this, please call us on X". Of course I would rather take a cheaper quote with the price of insurance and shouldn't I be able to provided all of the information I have given online is correct?

But the information was not correct, was it? Put yourself down as the main driver and then it would be correct. I too would love to take a cheaper quote, but not at the risk of effectively voiding my insurance and getting screwed for insurance fraud.

Scirpt wrote: »

I'm not sure how people can expect an 18 year old driver to buy their own policy first time. I've been driving over a year as a named driver and its still minimum €2400. If it was something reasonable like €1500 I would buy it but for now I'm stuck with going as a named driver.

By earning money and paying. My first insurance at 19 was €4,700. It was on an opel astra 1.4 and was painful to pay, but I was insured properly.

Scirpt wrote: »

On the online quote it asks you who will be the main driver. When she called them she told them she will be the main driver but she wasn't asked any more questions about it.

The online system isn't designed to spot fronting like a real person would. That's why the form is being sent out.

Scirpt wrote: »

All I want to know is if the online quote will be valid.

Yes, but the insurance would be obtained by a false declaration. If you are involved in an accident and the insurance company do some poking around, you can be chased for damages. A minor enough accident can run into tens of thousands of euros worth of damage.

Scirpt wrote: »

Actually, named driver experience discount is now equal to no claims discount with the majority of insurance companies (including Aviva). If I was put as named driver on a policy and never drove a day in my life, in five years time I would have a 50% discount on my own policy. Where the hell is the logic in that? Don't believe me? Go get a quote with Aviva with 5 years no claims bonus and 5 years named driver discount and there will be a marginal difference. It is silly to purchase your own policy at 18 unless you get a very fair deal, especially considering how little I will be driving.

Named experience doesn't match up to years earned on your own policy. Logic doesn't always apply to insurance....it's all about money and they will refuse to pay out, or will chase you for third party claims paid out. I would say it is silly to purchase a policy and fraudulently claim to be a named driver.

Scirpt wrote: »

How are we breaking any rules here. I will be a named driver on the car along with my father. I will drive maximum 20 minutes per day bar the odd occasion every month or two while my mother will be using it for at least 45 minutes a day.

Your father would be a valid named driver, as he would probably never drive your car. The rules are being broken by the very fact that you will be the person who drives the car the most. This makes you the real main driver, but you are only declaring that you are a named driver. It doesn't matter if you only drive for 2 minutes a month. If those 2 minutes add up to you driving more than the declared main driver, it is in breach of the policy.

Scirpt wrote: »

What is the point of the insurance companies allowing you to put named drivers on the car if they aren't going to be allowed to drive it. By putting my father on the policy it reduced it by €250 even though he may never drive it more than once or twice. It's not my fault the insurance company doesn't use logistics.

The point is to allow other people to be named on a policy, who would use the car less than the main driver and usually infrequently. For example; i have a policy in my name and I am the main driver. My wife is named on my policy and I am named on her policy. I drive my car 99% of the time. She drives it 1% of the time. She drives her car 100% of the time and I haven't driven her car since her policy renewed several months ago, but I am allowed to drive it, fully comprehensive, should I need to and she can use my car too, should she need to. It is ok to add drivers who might never use the vehicle, as long as they are not to be the main drivers in reality.

Scirpt wrote: »

You got ripped off.

Welcome to the world of insurance.

Scirpt wrote: »

How am I cheating the insurance company when I won't be the main driver? Is this not the point of named drivers? And it's not like the insurance is the same price as it would be for my mother on her own. It would probably be about €250 for her and my father so I am still paying quite a bit to be named on the policy.

Imagine importing tobacco into the country and declaring the shipment as apples to avoid paying higher taxes. You're declaring one thing, but doing another thing. You might get away with it, or you might lose your shipment and get a day in court. You were still paying a fair bit for the shipment, but you didn't declare the truth of what was in the container, because you thought you woukd be a wise guy and declare what you knew to be false information, to get away with a lower price.

Scirpt wrote: »

To be honest I always thought that if you were a named driver you could drive as much as the main driver. But how can an insurance company ever find out who is the real main driver though? It seems like an unenforceable rule.

Sorry, but you thought wrong. Named driver should be using the vehicle less. End of story. Insurance companies "find out" all the time.

It's pretty obvious you're going to go ahead with your plan and I hope nothing bad comes of it. Fronting often ends up in the crapper though. But the "named driver" never thinks anything will ever happen.

Last year, a lad only a couple of years older than you crashed into the back of my car. He wrote my car off and damaged my spine. I was unable to drive for several months. I am now unable to drive a manual transmission car and I use a walking stick. I was 30 when this happened and the financial cost of the injuries I suffered will not be cheap. I won't get into more detail, other than to say that the lad was a named driver on his mammies policy. He lost his NCD and she lost hers too. Both of them will be stuck paying higher insurance for years to come and I wouldn't be surprised if the insurance company comes after them for damages, because lets just say, it wouldn't take much to figure out that he was the main driver.

The risk is yours and you don't need us to tell you that what you're doing is fraudulent. You already know it, but don't want to accept it. Good Luck.

Scirpt

goz83 wrote: »

Your father would be a valid named driver, as he would probably never drive your car. The rules are being broken by the very fact that you will be the person who drives the car the most. This makes you the real main driver, but you are only declaring that you are a named driver. It doesn't matter if you only drive for 2 minutes a month. If those 2 minutes add up to you driving more than the declared main driver, it is in breach of the policy.

So it's fine then, since she will be driving it a lot more than me, hence she is the main driver and I am not.