if youre wearing a helmet cam, shouldnt you obey the rules of the road?

kumate_champ07

2 things here, guy flew by me down the bridge while I was cruising and getting ready for my sprint home, by the time I caught up with him for the last stretch home he broke the red lights! nobody beats me to my front door


anyway thought it was a bit of a dick move (anyone commuting fast on a bike is in 'the race')


and its a bit hypocritical having a cam to catch out car drivers when youre breaking red lights yourself

godtabh

You should always obey the rules of the road even more so if you are recording it

colm_gti

The vast majority of hi-vis wearing "commuter cyclists" in Dublin don't seem to have any concept of the rules of the road, let alone follow them, helmet cam or no helmet cam. It used to frustrate me, now I just think about Darwin's theory of evolution...

Luke92

Dublin bike idiots are the worst! Seen one flying down the road, breaking red lights and a passenger with their legs draped over the handle bars???

Some of them are real dangers!

lennymc

I blame health and safety initiatives. Years ago, these people would have taken themselves out, but now, thanks to H&S, the opportunities for them to do so have vastly diminished.

Tenzor07

Ah the Friday Cyclist bashing thread.... :rolleyes:

crosstownk

What does it matter whether you have a cam or not? Is it not simple common sense to obey the rules of the road at all times?

RainyDay

crosstownk wrote: »

What does it matter whether you have a cam or not? Is it not simple common sense to obey the rules of the road at all times?

Not really. At junctions with no advance stop line or bike box, it is simple common sense (as recommended by Cyclecraft) to break the rules of road and move into a position ahead of the stop line, to ensure that you are visible to traffic.

hfallada

Do cyclist break the rules of the road? Yes! But so do a lot of cars. There is a T junction on the way to my bus stop and 4/5 times that I get my bus a car go though a red light. Which is lethal because you cant see around the corner. Cars break an unreal amount lights. But you don't see countless threads on boards moaning about cars breaking lights

Sitevalue

No of course not. The helmet cam is there for you to put up footage of bad driving. You edit out anything that shows you in a bad light.

Mech1

Seen a woman today, Terenure area, she's got the helmet, got the front and back lights, got the high viz, got the helmet cam, bike gps etc.

She also had 3 dogs on leads in one hand. she ended up dragged by the dogs while she was clipped in on one foot got dragged into oncoming traffic that of course had to stop while she tried to sort herself out.

Fools are out there, and it gives all of you cyclists a bad name. Police them yourselves its the only way your gonna win.

CramCycle

Sitevalue wrote: »

No of course not. The helmet cam is there for you to put up footage of bad driving. You edit out anything that shows you in a bad light.

I just don't put the footage up at all, it's only there for the Gardai, insurance and myself. I feel if you have enough time to search through and edit that much footage of yourself on a typical commute (eg not an event) you either are missing something from your life or your a liar and looking for an event.

Gardai and insurance will want an unedited video, the first for contributory factors and to rule out editing/tampering. The second to mitigate cost and decide if the video sways a court appearance in their favour.

Gummy Panda

colm_gti wrote: »

The vast majority of hi-vis wearing "commuter cyclists" in Dublin don't seem to have any concept of the rules of the road, let alone follow them, helmet cam or no helmet cam. It used to frustrate me, now I just think about Darwin's theory of evolution...

I seen a guy on Thursday ride a bike down cranes lane (I think) while sitting on the crossbar. Idiot nearly crashed into me and others crossing the road

bazermc

I am sure this lunatic is squeaky clean.

http://youtu.be/L7DC8Wy6lcU

kumate_champ07

it was lycra, not hi vis
not sure why Im being accused of bashing cyclists, I commute & compete, this just happened to be an occasion when I was doing both

its more a question on commuter racing ethics(which coincidentally seemed suitable for a friday), and I also found it funny they had a head cam and broke the lights, am I missing something that seemingly appears between the lines of my original text?

crosstownk

RainyDay wrote: »

Not really. At junctions with no advance stop line or bike box, it is simple common sense (as recommended by Cyclecraft) to break the rules of road and move into a position ahead of the stop line, to ensure that you are visible to traffic.

Fair point - I do this myself.

Wishbone Ash

Mech1 wrote: »

.... and it gives all of you cyclists a bad name....

I don't really understand that thought process.

If you see a car driver doing something illegal/dangerous, do you assume it gives all car drivers a bad name?

If you see a bus driver doing something illegal/dangerous, do you assume it gives all bus drivers a bad name?

If you see a pedestrian doing something illegal/dangerous, do you assume it gives all pedestrians a bad name?

HivemindXX

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I don't really understand that thought process.

If you see a car driver doing something illegal/dangerous, do you assume it gives all car drivers a bad name?

If you see a bus driver doing something illegal/dangerous, do you assume it gives all bus drivers a bad name?

If you see a pedestrian doing something illegal/dangerous, do you assume it gives all pedestrians a bad name?

I don't understand the thought process either, perhaps it's an ingroup/outgroup thing. Most people are motorists and pedestrians so they are unlikely to think that all of a group which also includes them are dickheads. Plenty of people do seem to think that all bus drivers and taxi drivers are assholes and this is based on their observations which certainly haven't included every single person doing those jobs.

The bottom line is that people have attempted to blame me for the bad behaviour they've seen. I think it's a virtual certainty that if no cyclist ever went though a red light, I (a cyclist who doesn't go through reds) would get a lot less random bitching from people and might even be treated slightly better on the roads.

EIREX

colm_gti wrote: »

The vast majority of hi-vis wearing "commuter cyclists" in Dublin don't seem to have any concept of the rules of the road, let alone follow them, helmet cam or no helmet cam. It used to frustrate me, now I just think about Darwin's theory of evolution...

Some form of undercover Garda van that records the behaviour of hi vis cyclists (and fines them) at Samuel Beckett bridge in the IFSC in Dublin every morning could result in a great leap forward for mankind.......

CramCycle

bazermc wrote: »

I am sure this lunatic is squeaky clean.

Hmmmm, ai would not be as confident having seen only a few of his videos.

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

not sure why Im being accused of bashing cyclists,

I didn't think you were bashing, I see it now and again, two different guys with contour roams on their helmets. Consistently cutting right on red, crossing green for peds etc. If they have the camera for their own safety, they are doing it wrong, far bigger danger to themselves than anyone else.

Lumen

RainyDay wrote: »

Not really. At junctions with no advance stop line or bike box, it is simple common sense (as recommended by Cyclecraft) to break the rules of road and move into a position ahead of the stop line, to ensure that you are visible to traffic.

That typically requires riding over a pedestrian green, which is impolite, illegal, potentially dangerous and winds up people no end. It also often requires shoaling which is rude to other cyclists who have observed the correct stop line.

It's also unnecessary. It's perfectly safe to slot in behind/left of the first car, where you are very visible to the the second car. I do this daily and have never experienced impatience from a following car.

Kinet1c

CramCycle wrote: »

I just don't put the footage up at all, it's only there for the Gardai, insurance and myself. I feel if you have enough time to search through and edit that much footage of yourself on a typical commute (eg not an event) you either are missing something from your life or your a liar and looking for an event.

Gardai and insurance will want an unedited video, the first for contributory factors and to rule out editing/tampering. The second to mitigate cost and decide if the video sways a court appearance in their favour.

This is the reason I've picked up a camera, tis not about setting up a YouTube channel but purely for evidence purposes particularly as my new commute will see me spend a few km in Dublin city centre with a lot more traffic.

Big Nasty

colm_gti wrote: »

The vast majority of hi-vis wearing "commuter cyclists" in Dublin don't seem to have any concept of the rules of the road, let alone follow them

I have to admit I tend to tar all cyclists with the one brush because of my experience of the above pretty much every morning / evening in Dublin.

To be fair you can pick out the cycling enthusiasts fairly easy from the commuter ones. The enthusiast bombs along at a hefty pace but stops at junctions as required. The commuters then catch up with the enthusiast, blow a red light and carry on. Enthusiast takes off again, catches and passes the commuters and carrys on until he hits another red light.

Gotta be as freakin' annoying to the enthusiast as it is to the drivers that have to try pass the same cyclists again and again.

As for the vigilante cyclists, I'm not even gonna go there or I'll end up banned.

RainyDay

CramCycle wrote: »

I feel if you have enough time to search through and edit that much footage of yourself on a typical commute (eg not an event) you either are missing something from your life or your a liar and looking for an event.

Judgy much? I'm sure there are some people who might think that those who spend loads of time posting on boards are 'missing something from their lives', but that concern would be misplaced. It's just another way of participating in the road safety debate online. You might like it or not like it, and of course, you don't have to watch the vids if you don't like them. But it doesn't tell you anything about the poster's life at all.

CramCycle wrote: »

Gardai and insurance will want an unedited video, the first for contributory factors and to rule out editing/tampering. The second to mitigate cost and decide if the video sways a court appearance in their favour.

My experience with the Gardai has been varied, with no sign of any clear policy about what to do with video evidence. One Garda did mention unedited, but no-one has ever asked for coverage of the period before the event. I've never had to deal with an insurance case fortunately.

Lumen wrote: »

That typically requires riding over a pedestrian green, which is impolite, illegal, potentially dangerous and winds up people no end. It also often requires shoaling which is rude to other cyclists who have observed the correct stop line.

It's also unnecessary. It's perfectly safe to slot in behind/left of the first car, where you are very visible to the the second car. I do this daily and have never experienced impatience from a following car.

I'm not sure that you'd get the same kind of visibility with cars by being behind the first car. I never go near pedestrians, so I'd always hold back or move forward to leave room. And I can't remember the last time that I shoaled anyone, perhaps because I can't remember the last time I've seen a cyclist in the position you recommend. I'm frequently shoaled mind you, by slower cyclists who just have to move ahead of me to the front of the queue.

ElChe32

Absolutely hate seeing idiots breaking the lights. As a fellow cyclist in Dublin nothing I enjoy more than catching up with these tools and passing them.

Wishbone Ash

Big Nasty wrote: »

...To be fair you can pick out the cycling enthusiasts fairly easy from the commuter ones. The enthusiast bombs along at a hefty pace but stops at junctions as required. The commuters then catch up with the enthusiast, blow a red light and carry on. Enthusiast takes off again, catches and passes the commuters and carrys on until he hits another red light.

Gotta be as freakin' annoying to the enthusiast as it is to the drivers that have to try pass the same cyclists again and again....

But there is a certain amount of smug satisfaction to be had from stopping at the red lights and still being faster and safer than those who don't. :cool:

Big Nasty

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But there is a certain amount of smug satisfaction to be had from stopping at the red lights and still being faster and safer than those who don't. :cool:

Passing commuter cyclists =

Commuter cyclists breaking red lights so I have to squeeze past them AGAIN = :mad:

Looks like motorists and cycling enthusiasts have a lot more in common than I thought. :eek:

LpPepper

Big Nasty wrote: »

I have to admit I tend to tar all cyclists with the one brush because of my experience of the above pretty much every morning / evening in Dublin.

To be fair you can pick out the cycling enthusiasts fairly easy from the commuter ones. The enthusiast bombs along at a hefty pace but stops at junctions as required. The commuters then catch up with the enthusiast, blow a red light and carry on. Enthusiast takes off again, catches and passes the commuters and carrys on until he hits another red light.

Gotta be as freakin' annoying to the enthusiast as it is to the drivers that have to try pass the same cyclists again and again.

As for the vigilante cyclists, I'm not even gonna go there or I'll end up banned.

This really bugs me! Cycling to/from college/work and once I stop at a red light,another cyclist with no lights/reflective gear goes past at a snails pace through the red. Then I have to over take again and the process repeats for several miles! One of the most frustrating things known to mankind.

CramCycle

RainyDay wrote: »

Judgy much?

Quite a bit, it's a deep seated character flaw.

I'm sure there are some people who might think that those who spend loads of time posting on boards are 'missing something from their lives', but that concern would be misplaced. It's just another way of participating in the road safety debate online. You might like it or not like it, and of course, you don't have to watch the vids if you don't like them. But it doesn't tell you anything about the poster's life at all.

It's not concern, just a statement of my view on the subject. I suppose if it wasn't a clear cut case in a select few of looking for trouble (and you will find it if you look), then it wouldn't even register with me. If someone has something of note, posts it up, it is interesting and does contribute to the debate. When you have people posting 1000+ videos of "incidents" they have online, you have to wonder if a) they have no idea what constitutes a dangerous maneuver b) they are placing themselves into a position whereby the chances of such incidents are much higher than a typical commuter c) they are themselves the mitigating factor.

As was said to me on this forum a few years ago. If you meet a few assh*les a week/month, they are assh*les, if you meet a few assh*les every day, your the assh*le.

i am not calling anyone an assh*le but I can't help but wonder what are the statistics that they have so many "incidents" compared to other cyclists, it, IMO, is either intentional or their roadcraft is so poor that they should consider getting training or get someone else to transport them eg PSV or Public Bus.

My experience with the Gardai has been varied, with no sign of any clear policy about what to do with video evidence. One Garda did mention unedited, but no-one has ever asked for coverage of the period before the event. I've never had to deal with an insurance case fortunately.

Same here, alot of Garda stations will only take a burned CD/DVD and ask you to keep the unedited copy, presumably worried about viruses, caught a load of heroin deals/dealers on my helmet cam, burned to a DVD, wrote a statement of what I heard and seen. Handed into the Garda in charge in Store St., never heard a word back from them.

JBokeh

I'd say I've seen maybe 10 incidents of lads on bikes roaring at people (GoPro Heros as i call them), Once in London some chap with a go pro on his helmet tore the head of a guy cycling with us on a borris bike for no other reason than he was wobbling a bit, Seemed like an over reaction so I'm guessing he was already pretty pissed off over something else.
Another time in fermoy a lad on a pretty good Orbea road bike passed the traffic turning left towards the Supervalue and Lidl on the inside while the light was green,and got pinched in the blind spot of a rigid truck in front of me, and started roaring at him at the zebra crossing down the road. I'd have thought if he was far enough into cycling to have a nice bike and good gear like that he would have had the experience to know not to go up the inside of a turning truck,and then blame the truck driver

The other incidents have been tame enough, shouting at wayward pedestrians, and the usual back and fourth between cyclists and taxi drivers.

Not sure is it that angry people put cameras on their helmets, or is it the weight of a camera on the helmet makes them angry, but it seems to make people a lot more game for confrontation. I've seen the videos that get put up on youtube, fair enough sometimes there is a right display of arseholing,but most of the time it is something relatively minor blown way out of proportion with the famous line "i'm putting this on youtube" getting dropped!

Its a good job for evidence, the exact reason i've a dash cam lost somewhere under the seat in my car!