New regs. on building blocks.

Handsandtools

Just got call this morning, about new regulations for building blocks. Now they have to be more dense than before.
Did anyone knows something about it???

sydthebeat

havent heard of anything.
Blocks can have different densities, they just have to be declared.

I wonder if it as a result of the Construction Products Regulations where a manufacture now has to provide a CE cert and test certs?

The existing standard for concrete blocks has been in since 2006 BS EN 771-3

edit: i see EN 771-3 was upgraded again in 2011

Handsandtools

I hear that AAC blocks are not strong enough to be used in Ireland, which sounds a bit wrong for me!

sydthebeat

Handsandtools wrote: »

I hear that AAC blocks are not strong enough to be used in Ireland, which sounds a bit wrong for me!

where are you hearing this?

Quinnlites are graded by strength and the B7s can be used up to 4 storeys

Handsandtools

One builder from Galway told me, that it's resent changes in the regs. Sound a bit stupid that's why I wanna to find out.
I work with AEROC Eco therm, they are 1.8N/mm2 but thermal conductivity just 0.072. They are used in North Europe, Scandinavia, Germany for up to 2 storeys.
There's not as much timber in Ireland as limestone, so I see more benefit of AAC than timber frames.

sydthebeat

are your blocks CE certified and tested in accordance with EN 771-3?

Handsandtools

They are CE certified and made in EU, sold and used in many EU country's like Sweden, and Germany.

sydthebeat

the only thing i can think of is with the new 'assigned certifier' engagement in place of building control.... the ACs are looking for certification of products. I suppose many will only accept IAB or BBA certs or proof of testing to EN standards.

Handsandtools

I know what You mean. But that guy was telling me that now strength of the blocks in Ireland has to be at least 9N/mm2.
That's what surprised me.

sydthebeat

well thats patently not correct

TGD A 'structure' states:

Solid concrete blocks
Solid concrete blocks should have a thickness as required by par 1.1.3.4 and be Group 1 masonry units conforming to I.S. EN 771-3.
The declared mean compressive strength for Group 1 masonry units should be 7.5N/mm2 (dry strength to I.S. EN 772-1);

Lightweight solid concrete blocks
Lightweight solid concrete blocks should have a thickness as required by par 1.1.3.4 and be Group 1 masonry units conforming to I.S. EN 771-3.
The declared mean compressive strength for Group 1 masonry units should be 7.5N/mm2
(dry strength to I.S. EN 772-1);

Handsandtools

I.S EN 711-4 is for AAC blocks

Handsandtools

Even if You look at these: http://www.ytong.cn/en/content/ytong_block_range_1230.php
technical data shows that for AAC it's different requirement.

sydthebeat

i think the 9N/mm2 may have come from requirement for clay bricks.

TGD A

The declared mean
compressive strength for Group 1 masonry
units should be 9N/mm2
and 13 N/mm2
for
Group 2 masonry units;

??

could that be it do you think?

Handsandtools

Yea looks like someone didn't know where to look for the right information. It's because AAC are rarely used here at the moment.

RORY O CONNOR

I think from next year that the use of hollowblocks is outlawed for construction external walls in a house. They stopped using them in the UK some time ago.

BryanF

RORY O CONNOR wrote: »

I think from next year that the use of hollowblocks is outlawed for construction external walls in a house. They stopped using them in the UK some time ago.

Link?

Strolling Bones

RORY O CONNOR wrote: »

I think from next year that the use of hollowblocks is outlawed for construction external walls in a house. They stopped using them in the UK some time ago.

Don't hold your breath now

Carbonnet

Google Eurocode 6 and Standard Regulation SR 325 Ireland

Calahonda52

Carbonnet wrote: »

Google Eurocode 6 and Standard Regulation SR 325 Ireland

And?
Both need to be paid for:eek:

Carbonnet

Calahonda52 wrote: »

And?
Both need to be paid for:eek:

I know - but all registered builders will surely have a copy of them - they're current standards;)

Drift

If you're looking for some sort of Irish rule/regulation "banning" the use of cavity blocks in external walls Eurocode 6 is not the place to look. It's a structural design code for masonry. It doesn't give perscriptive rules about building technique in Ireland. It gives rules and calculation methodologies for the design of masonry walls and elements.


SR325 is non contradictory complimentary information for Eurocode 6 with an Irish context. In theory it could rule them out. As it is though - it doesn't. In fact it specifically shows an external cavity block wall in one of its diagrams.

*NB - I'm just giving details on what the codes say here. I personally hate hollow blocks with a burning passion!

Strolling Bones

Drift wrote: »

I personally hate hollow blocks with a burning passion!

But their demise is prematurely heralded here .....

Victor

Handsandtools wrote: »

I know what You mean. But that guy was telling me that now strength of the blocks in Ireland has to be at least 9N/mm2.
That's what surprised me.

What's their sources?

Strolling Bones

Victor wrote: »

What's their sources?

"That guy" aka Jimmy down the pub....

Drift

Strolling Bones wrote: »

But their demise is prematurely heralded here .....

I can't see them ever being "banned." The building regulations development has already "evolved" them out of use as a single external wall leaf in most cases.

I found a quite a few architects who like them where a 215mm leaf is required (either internally or as the internal leaf of an external wall) because they can be used to give a fair-faced finish that looks like block on the edge.

I've found them to be very tricky when it comes to structural design.

Strolling Bones

Drift wrote: »

I found a quite a few architects who like them ....
I've found them to be very tricky when it comes to structural design.

They will be most used by self builders / extenders / and small "builders" who will carry on busines as usual regardless of all building control legislation.

You and I know they are out there in legions ....

DOCARCH

Hollow blocks will never disappear!

...they are also useful for boundary walls where you don't want piers...rebar, connected to foundation rebar, up though cores and fill cores with concrete to form reinforced hollow block walls.

Strolling Bones

for use in industrial buildings for reduced weight infill panel between structural frames

Drift

DOCARCH wrote: »

...rebar, connected to foundation rebar, up though cores and fill cores with concrete to form reinforced hollow block walls.

Hertofore that technique has been used in many buildings too DOCARCH although often for vertical tying only.

The mechanics behind it are less than ideal for any true bending resistance application (i.e. retained fill behind the wall in question). Reinforcing steel in such circumstances is designed to take the tensile load so it should be located as near as practical to the tension face of the structure. If the steel is in the middle it won't be best used and the wall may develop substantial issues prior to the mobilisation of the steel's tensile capabilities.

Don't get me wrong though - I applaud the link to the foundation as continuity is an oft overlooked engineering principle and it will at least give reasonable shear resistance at the base of the garden wall type system.

Anyway - if they do go the dodo bird direction DOCARCH I promise I'll design you a tasty garden wall with hidden pillars!

Carbonnet

Strolling Bones wrote: »

They will be most used by self builders / extenders / and small "builders" who will carry on busines as usual regardless of all building control legislation.

You and I know they are out there in legions ....

The biggest site currently under construction in Dublin is hollow block - drylined and very accurately detailed - I was suprisingly impressed when had a look at the insulation system going in - I went looking for faults!

This method of build is traditional in Northern France also - it ain't goin to change - they will amend and details to achieve the U-values and thermal bridging required to meet their LZ buildings.

It's hard to change tradition

Handsandtools

Strolling Bones wrote: »

for use in industrial buildings for reduced weight infill panel between structural frames

That's where AAC blocks are handy.

galwaytt

Drift wrote: »

I can't see them ever being "banned." The building regulations development has already "evolved" them out of use as a single external wall leaf in most cases.

I found a quite a few architects who like them where a 215mm leaf is required (either internally or as the internal leaf of an external wall) because they can be used to give a fair-faced finish that looks like block on the edge.

I've found them to be very tricky when it comes to structural design.

I know a scheme of 60+ houses being built with them in Dublin right now, so like the bad guys, " they haven't gone away you know...!".....

Strolling Bones

galwaytt wrote: »

I know a scheme of 60+ houses being built with them in Dublin right now, so like the bad guys, " they haven't gone away you know...!".....

That is very dissapointing. I know I have been saying they won't dissappear - I do wish they would though.