Clearing ditchs....

ESB Spaniel

Anyone else loosing a lot of their "Great Ditches/Spots" to the sudden clearing of ditches from farmers.... I know its their land and all but saddens me to see it....:(:(:(

tikkahunter

Yeah and takes a good 4 years to get them back right,tree felling is got out of hand ,lads going in and leaving whole plots of land with out a tree on it ,some of best land is being tore apart.

shotie

loosing great hunting spots every year here

dodderangler

I'm seeing ditches collapsing alri but I put that down to the abundance of rabbits around.
Won't be many left though as mixxy is back again

ESB Spaniel

Surprised birdwatch haven't kicked up stink.... Don't know about other places but locally here there is going to be nothing left the way they are going.... Doing a right job they are. Nothing we can do I am afraid just watch....

Birdnuts

ESB Spaniel wrote: »

Surprised birdwatch haven't kicked up stink.... Don't know about other places but locally here there is going to be nothing left the way they are going.... Doing a right job they are. Nothing we can do I am afraid just watch....

On the legal front a farmer in receipt of SFP(Single Farm Payments) under CAP can't remove a ditch without replacing it with one of similar length. Secondly you can't interfere with ditches/hedges in any way from the start of March to the end of August(other then for road safety purposes)
Another issue here is the carry on of the Dept of Agriculture harassing farmers who maintain wildlife habitat on farms by denying them certain SFP payments by claiming there not "farming the land". This is getting to be such a big problem that certain farmers groups and conservation bodies have come together to fight these measures, many of which are actually illegal under the habitats and bird directives. The letter below appeared in the farming independent a couple of weeks ago and was signed off by affected farmers - along with conservation bodies like birdwatch Ireland, gun clubs and other interested parties

Birdnuts

Sorry - forgot to add link to letter:rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/commonage-eligibility-cuts-will-lead-to-the-abandonment-of-land-and-rural-decline-31015567.html

ESB Spaniel

Cheers for that.... I don't think any farmers down here are removing them completely but they are totally wiping the ditchs down to mud mostly....

extremetaz

had a permission of mine completely flattened a few months back - was gutted.

sniperman

ya its seems to be happening all over,some great cover destroyed,trimming is one thing,complete obliteration is another,seems like with the use of electric fences/wire,ditches are no longer needed.

aaakev

dodderangler wrote: »

I'm seeing ditches collapsing alri but I put that down to the abundance of rabbits around.
Won't be many left though as mixxy is back again

Fingers crossed it stays mild and wont s0read as much. Nothing worse than a bit of bad weather to help the mixi along

dodderangler

aaakev wrote: »

Fingers crossed it stays mild and wont s0read as much. Nothing worse than a bit of bad weather to help the mixi along

It's terrible and horrible to see rabbits in that way. Can spot them a mile off.
2 year ago same land was riddled with mixxy and tbh I can't remember how many rabbits I killed with the gun and some even just picking them off the ground.
Last year place was so good with lovely nice healthy rabbits but this year it's back again
With 2 rabbits I shot last week that were healthy and 6 that were not.
Suppose best thing to do is to hit it hard and wipe out the bad ones.
Just aswell the neighbours dogs love rabbit so they aren't going to waste entirely.

Terrier

a lot of farmers payments were cut last year due to claiming land that was not productive (scrub etc). This was caused by Dept. of Agri using satellite imagery for the first time so that has caused an explosion in land clearning to get the payments back. This should not include hedgerow mind.

over 20 farmers within our local club patch have undertaken works since Oct last year.

J.R.

Yes - it's a shame ....countryside destroyed.

'Countryfile' on BBC on Sunday evenings had a program a fortnight ago visiting France - over there they have realised that removing hedges & cover was a big mistake and they are now planting hedgerows down through large tillage fields.

Capercaillie

With milk quotas gone there is a huge push for greater production. The IFA/DAFM/Coveney are calling it sustained intensification (Harvest 2020). This means clear all scrub, drain wetlands and cut every ditch to an inch of it's life. The County Councils are encouraging people to chop down large trees along roadways, for fear of litigation with fallen trees. More habitat destroyed in last year than in last 20 years.

thehound

reason farmers are clearing scrub and diches is that they wont be paid for that land .just another EU stupid rule telling farmers about conservation and then cutting there grants if they leave scrub on there lands so dont blame the farmers get on to your local TD and let the farmers be paid for this land. ps I am not a farmer just a man who likes shooting and can see the farmers point of view

useurowname

Capercaillie wrote: »

With milk quotas gone there is a huge push for greater production. The IFA/DAFM/Coveney are calling it sustained intensification (Harvest 2020). This means clear all scrub, drain wetlands and cut every ditch to an inch of it's life. The County Councils are encouraging people to chop down large trees along roadways, for fear of litigation with fallen trees. More habitat destroyed in last year than in last 20 years.

That's it bang there. My shooting lands are at least at third what they were 10 years ago, barb wire fences don't seem to hold many birds and are not much fun to beat. Actually gets me down when I think about what will be left come next November.

pheasantmad

Some joke is right, here in Limerick at the moment there a track machine in every second field!!! Will be the death of the wild pheasant id say. Nothing more depressing than looking at box hedges, post's and wire.

extremetaz

Just spotted this on the NPWS website:
public consultation on hedgecutting

Connemara Farmer

thehound wrote: »

reason farmers are clearing scrub and diches is that they wont be paid for that land .just another EU stupid rule telling farmers about conservation and then cutting there grants if they leave scrub on there lands so dont blame the farmers get on to your local TD and let the farmers be paid for this land. ps I am not a farmer just a man who likes shooting and can see the farmers point of view

Don't blame the EU, it is this member states fault. There are EU options available which would prevent this. Think of it like a menu, but Ireland has chosen the harshest interpretations and options. Therefore farmers are forced into actions they may not agree with to protect their payments and comply with the Departments narrow interpretations. The fault is not with the EU, they are most often used as a convenient scapegoat due to ordinary citizens not interacting with them directly.

Capercaillie

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Don't blame the EU, it is this member states fault. There are EU options available which would prevent this. Think of it like a menu, but Ireland has chosen the harshest interpretations and options. Therefore farmers are forced into actions they may not agree with to protect their payments and comply with the Departments narrow interpretations. The fault is not with the EU, they are most often used as a convenient scapegoat due to ordinary citizens not interacting with them directly.

x2
Department of Agriculture tell farmers to clear scrub from their farms to be eligible for farm payments....despite several European regulations that ALLOW land parcels with scrub and heather to be eligible for payment in high conservation value farmlands

Capercaillie

Large amounts of scrub being burnt tonight in Slieve Aughty mountains tonight.

Jayzesake

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Don't blame the EU, it is this member states fault. There are EU options available which would prevent this. Think of it like a menu, but Ireland has chosen the harshest interpretations and options. Therefore farmers are forced into actions they may not agree with to protect their payments and comply with the Departments narrow interpretations. The fault is not with the EU, they are most often used as a convenient scapegoat due to ordinary citizens not interacting with them directly.

Although it should also be pointed out that a very similar situation exists in the U.K. and - afaik - other parts of the E.U.

Connemara Farmer

Jayzesake wrote: »

Although it should also be pointed out that a very similar situation exists in the U.K. and - afaik - other parts of the E.U.

No, Wales has taken a much better road than Ireland has, some info about the situation in the link below, especially important to note the clear variety of groups who signed.

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/new-farm-organisation-takes-minister-to-task-on-inspections/

Jayzesake

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

No, Wales has taken a much better road than Ireland has, some info about the situation in the link below, especially important to note the clear variety of groups who signed.

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/new-farm-organisation-takes-minister-to-task-on-inspections/

Can't find any mention of Wales in that link, CF.

Connemara Farmer

Jayzesake wrote: »

Can't find any mention of Wales in that link, CF.

That's cos there isn't one. Wales have adopted Article 4 1 h, as suggested in that document that Ireland should. Basically it's a road map to avoid an awful lot of the problems which are being created due to harsh interpretations of what Irelands Dept Agriculture rules eligible for payment, or not.

Jayzesake

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

That's cos there isn't one. Wales have adopted Article 4 1 h, as suggested in that document that Ireland should. Basically it's a road map to avoid an awful lot of the problems which are being created due to harsh interpretations of what Irelands Dept Agriculture rules eligible for payment, or not.

Can't find any mention of requirements to clear ditches, scrub etc., there either, although the content isn't completely unrelated to that.

Interesting article though.

extremetaz

Jayzesake wrote: »

Can't find any mention of requirements to clear ditches, scrub etc., there either, although the content isn't completely unrelated to that.

Interesting article though.

Had a brief chat with the auld boy about all this over the weekend - he's a former agricultural officer and knows the REPS scheme and all that comes with it like the back of his hand.

In any case, he reckons (or at least as far as I can gather from the reams of information he spouted at me) that what's happening is actually on account of the fact that in order to become part of REPS, farmers undertake to perform certain actions on their land which preserve space for the rural environment but also increase the efficiency or productivity of the land - in this case what he expects we're seeing is farmers regularising (squaring up) the shape of fields.

He reckons that what ditches are being removed are either going to be: replaced in a different location (bringing the land into line for the single farm payment); replaced and squared up (improving the shape of the land); or where the ditch is not a land boundary, but an obstacle in the middle of a field, then simply removed and the landspace committed to fallow land elsewhere.

Now he's retired a while, so there could be somthing more to it, but it's interesting to hear that this could all simply be a part of REPS obligations...

useurowname

extremetaz wrote: »

Had a brief chat with the auld boy about all this over the weekend - he's a former agricultural officer and knows the REPS scheme and all that comes with it like the back of his hand.

In any case, he reckons (or at least as far as I can gather from the reams of information he spouted at me) that what's happening is actually on account of the fact that in order to become part of REPS, farmers undertake to perform certain actions on their land which preserve space for the rural environment but also increase the efficiency or productivity of the land - in this case what he expects we're seeing is farmers regularising (squaring up) the shape of fields.

He reckons that what ditches are being removed are either going to be: replaced in a different location (bringing the land into line for the single farm payment); replaced and squared up (improving the shape of the land); or where the ditch is not a land boundary, but an obstacle in the middle of a field, then simply removed and the landspace committed to fallow land elsewhere.

Now he's retired a while, so there could be somthing more to it, but it's interesting to hear that this could all simply be a part of REPS obligations...

That sounds about right for what I'm seeing and hearing as well, aside from the bit about ditches being replaced in a different location.

Anyone know if the NARGC have anything to do or say about this?