so Paris Nice winner swam more than any bordie in november and december..

peter kern

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/swimming-behind-portes-return-to-form

a nice way of masking more commen cycling aids ???
This aside still a good way of crosstraining which can be helpfull in the off season.

tunney

Team Sky, the team whose members are medical mysteries - with one having two illnesses at the same time based on TUEs, two illnesses which have the properties of curing each other..........

Team Sky, all but named in the CIRC report for the pharmaceutical approach to weight loss....

Yes it was the Swimming......

Kurt Godel

20km a week? Even at a relatively mild pace 3km per hour, would that not build up too much upper body muscle mass for a pro cyclist?

(addressing the second of your points Peter)

peter kern

I would think more about that he keeps fitness and giving overused joints ( ie knee) a bit of a rest, also mentally refreshing to spend less time on the bike
And I would say Nordic sking more beneficial but if you can't do Nordic sking and have swim background .....
I would not worry about muscle weight .
Still the way he describes it is funny..
But The point here is that he swam more than any triathlete on the forum ... as a cyclist . While most of us got fat over x mas ... And it does not seem to have slowed him down. ( I call bs on some of his statements but it does not seem to have slowed him down)

It could of course be the stages power meter that the most scientific team... Uses .....

Kurt Godel wrote: »

20km a week? Even at a relatively mild pace 3km per hour, would that not build up too much upper body muscle mass for a pro cyclist?

(addressing the second of your points Peter)

mossym

peter kern wrote: »

But The point here is that he swam more than any triathlete on the forum ... as a cyclist .

"pro athlete in big training hours" shocker.

amazing what can be done when not trying to work 50/60 hour week on top of training.

peter kern

mossym wrote: »

"pro athlete in big training hours" shocker.

amazing what can be done when not trying to work 50/60 hour week on top of training.

you are very much misisng the point here when we talk aobut cross training in the off season.

mossym

peter kern wrote: »

you are very much misisng the point here when we talk aobut cross training in the off season.

no, i fully understand/agree with your point about the benefit of cross training.

i was just pointing out that even if one prioritised cross training, few people working normal jobs could put a fraction of that time into it, and comparing it to what people on here swam is a rather meaningless comparison. consider it an expression of envy that he has that much time to be able to devote to it, while admitting that given the difference in our lives, it doesn't matter if he did 80 hours.


i'd be much more impressed if proof of improvement after 2 hours CT was shown, as most here could aspire to 2 hours.

Dory Dory

peter kern wrote: »

you are very much misisng the point here when we talk aobut cross training in the off season.

Your thread title could be read as implying criticism to us boardsies....but perhaps that was not your intention.

mossym

Dory Dory wrote: »

Your thread title could be read as implying criticism to us boardsies....but perhaps that was not your intention.

That and that it was the fact he did more than anyone here that was highlIghtfield twice, would give that impression alright.

tunney

mossym wrote: »

That and the fact that it was the fact he did more than anyone here that was highlIghtfield twice, would give that impression alright.

I heard Richie Porter was doing PB3 swim sessions. ☺

peter kern

Dory Dory wrote: »

Your thread title could be read as implying criticism to us boardsies....but perhaps that was not your intention.

One could read it as criticism if thats what they want to read (and yes i saw myself in the screem while writing the header as i got to fat in the off season ) or one could try to think about it with an open mind and weigh up the pros and cons of such an approach, to whatever the max time is they can train.

. ie rather than taking 4 weeks off at the end of the season and put on 5 kg would it be better to swim 20 k for four weeks and maybe put on 1 kg. or it could be cycling every day 90 min in the off season rather than rest ( the answer could well be no for both questions )
and for some an run everyday could work - high impact higher chance to cause injury when overweight .

at his level its more valid to measure if such approach can work.(in additon to expereinces of krueger and sutton that use nordic sking for some elite athletes) as they are all very close in talent weight nutrition and as fit as it gets and the margin for error is low ( drugs or no drugs) .
very hard to meassure this appraoch with beginners as too many variables in talent weight nutriton stess at work, commuting times etc.

mossym

peter kern wrote: »

. ie rather than taking 4 weeks off at the end of the season and put on 5 kg would it be better to swim 20 k for four weeks and maybe put on 1 kg. or it could be cycling every day 90 min in the off season rather than rest ( the answer could well be no for both questions )
and for some an run everyday could work - high impact higher chance to cause injury when overweight .
.

do your athletes take a full 4 weeks off Peter? a real 4 weeks off, as in nothing? I'd be surprised if it were that big a gap.

and it started off as an arugment about the virtues of cross training, but now a bike or a run could work, surely they don't count as cross training? i thought the break was much a mental thing as a physical, but saying a bike or run every day allows neither the break, nor the benefit of "cross training", so are you really just arguing people shouldn't take a break?

genuine question, not having a go

Kurt Godel

I'm confused by your point Peter- are you comparing what a Pro cyclist swam to what Boardies swam; or saying he swam to mask enhancers; or suggesting swimming as a benefit in off-season?

If its the last point, what are the benefits to swimming 20-27 hours a week? Why not half that? Or double it, for that matter? My cards on the table- 20 hours swimming per week for a hobby triathlete will include a lot of junk time swimming distance at a slow rate, that could be better spent on a shorter more structured swim program.

sconhome

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/faster-than-lance-richie-porte-smashes-madone-record-again-162797

Must be all that swimming! ! 😉😉

MojoMaker

For a cyclist whose main event is about as far from swimming as it can be it demonstrates that what we consider mega mileage is actually a relatively trivial effort in the greater scheme of things.

As we prepare for the tri season and load up our disciplines with what we believe to be big mileage, now and again you get a reality check like this. To some it won't be motivating, to others I'm sure there's value, and Peter's point(s) were across several themes, and interesting on a few levels.

Porte himself has said swimming is a big help to his cycling, although let's not forget he had the natural benefit of coming from a swimming background so he's not exactly floundering in the water when he swims.

tunney

MojoMaker wrote: »

For a cyclist whose main event is about as far from swimming as it can be it demonstrates that what we consider mega mileage is actually a relatively trivial effort in the greater scheme of things.

As we prepare for the tri season and load up our disciplines with what we believe to be big mileage, now and again you get a reality check like this. To some it won't be motivating, to others I'm sure there's value, and Peter's point(s) were across several themes, and interesting on a few levels.

Porte himself has said swimming is a big help to his cycling, although let's not forget he had the natural benefit of coming from a swimming background so he's not exactly floundering in the water when he swims.

Yes, everyone look at me waving my right hand while my left hand robs your wallet.

MojoMaker

Whether he's doping or not isn't really the point here though, although it is a point in its own right of course, I didn't think it was being discussed here.

He does big swim mileage while cross training for an unrelated sport and his off-season cross training alone puts our largest A-race IM efforts here into perspective.

peter kern

mossym wrote: »

do your athletes take a full 4 weeks off Peter? a real 4 weeks off, as in nothing? I'd be surprised if it were that big a gap.

and it started off as an arugment about the virtues of cross training, but now a bike or a run could work, surely they don't count as cross training? i thought the break was much a mental thing as a physical, but saying a bike or run every day allows neither the break, nor the benefit of "cross training",

genuine question, not having a go

this is going to get wide as i think the end result is alwyas holistic and you cant seperate sport from life.

"so are you really just arguing people shouldn't take a break?"

there is not only 1 answer to this question
it depends on many factors

- years in sport, age , talent, character of an athelte.
-how the last season went ( injuries training hours work and life balance
- whats planned for next season and in 2 or 3 years.


generally i consider off season as training without structure and not no training BUT an off season should not always be the same.
my off season this year was cycling in turkey , the focus was totally on travelling but i still did 70 km of cycling a day, stopped when i wanted etc this year I will take a few weeks totally off training.
as I will have built a solid foundation of fitness this year and last year.
mental rest is important but i think there is more different cycles how to do it, than what you suggested .
ie many elites have 1 year easy after oly games so its not just 4 weeks its a year ( and to be fair i think something like that also works very well for ager where it could be 2 years on 1 year easy the way to organise it are infinite like split seasons etc etc )


most ager train so little why should they have an off season - if they enjoy what they do ( different to a pro or serious ager who needs to give their body rest )
most people say they cant train more , but we see a lot of top agers that are extremly good in time mamagement and delegating and thus getting more time for themselfeves which then makes them more effiecnt at work ...
so time managemnet skills are an v important factor in triathlon. and again differetn people have differetn priorities but the ones that really want to train find a way .


I do think for an ager run and cycle to work would kind off count as cross training ( more training with out losing much time from ones life but most are just to confortable to do it ) , it would have a similar impact than cross training for pros and of course if the mind needs a rest from swim bike run rowing playing soccer nordic sking would be good alternatives.
cross training for pros is getting more training in, or for overuse purposes or dealing with the weather ( someting we dodnt really have to consider in ireland as we can train all year round) .
for agers its getting more time in ( i dodnt have the time to have a car) so in a way commuting is cross training ( of course you can argue my use of words the end result would be very similar)


quite honestly i hardly argue anything i stated a fact that a pro cyclist swam more than anybody on this forum ,when here most of the time we hear swiming is a waste of time the truth is more the middle, but a weak swim often has the same impact on the bike as a weak bike on the run but an big engine is never wasted on a triathlete and there is many ways to built that engine. ( and swimming being non weight bearing its a great way for heavy people to built and engine)

what i say is that many ways can lead to rome and this is by far not the only way .but in his case it appears swimmng in the off season had no negative impact on the bike and i think this is really the only thing Iwould argue here that even a pro is limited in the time they have, so it seems not to be the worst way to spend his limited time .
so and if it works for a cyclist chances are even higher it works for a triathlete.

Besides, most boardies have weight issues (so overall they seem to move too little and have too much time to eat-) so thats always someting to consider ( including myself) and most people put on most weight in november and december. SO either we need to train more or eat less..so whatever floats your boat to move is good and it could very well be Hillwalking with your wife.rather than going to a restaurant .
but overall its to be the best one can be and also one wants to be ( this article i posted is great for the people that want to be the best they can be and there is no need to be negative about it if people have other priorities)

i hope that helps a bit and to summerize
1 we chose what's right for us and everybody has different priorities. but most of us can chose their priorities if they really want.
2 there is not only 1 way
3 i did not suggest anybody has to swim as much but look at what other people do is always good.