Advice needed on dropping offer after survey

Stressedms

Hi I could really do with some advice. We went sale agreed after a very stressful process with estate agent. He hadn't gotten back to us before going sale agreed despite our offer being higher. When we found out we were very upset. I phoned and complained he didn't know who I was and when I asked price agreed he said 'no less than 650k no more than the asking €695'. We rang days later and said we wanted a chance to bid he told us he'd only do it if we we went to 700k, asked him the price at present and he refused. We feel he bullied us to 700 and from his early words suspect the offer was region of 650's.
We have just gotten a survey that's not good news we need 40k plus vat to do 'essential' repairs as house while advertised as renovated is an old house that had been covered up and structurally needs a lot of work. We now can't afford this house at price he pushed us to. We now think he pushed us this high as we suspect previous bidders were trying to drop their price after survey. Question is do we drop back to 660k? Or do we risk losing house (we're trying to cut agent out as he's mean). We figure from the agents earlier comments that house got in the 650's which means 660 is still higher, but we can hold back some money to do basics .
Thanks so much

blackbird 49

Personally I would tell you to tell estate agent to shove it up his a**', he's trying to pull a fast one , this is what happened in the boom times and I hope people are not stupid enough to go there again, he might tell you there is another bidder but I would pull out of the deal, more than likely he will get back to you and if he does and you are still interested bid at a lower price, estate agents are no better than the banks were in the boom times,

MarkAnthony

As easy as this is to say, and as hard as it is to actually do you need to remove the emotion from it and figure out what the house is worth to you. Let's say that's 700K then 700-40 = €660K.

Frankly at that budget there are plenty of other houses out there.

Surely at the the guts of 3/4 of a million euro there is a service you can engage to negotiate a house purchase?

Into The Blue

Pull your offer altogether. Tell him you need time to analyse the survey, and will be back with a revised offer.

I'm sure you have seen the amount of price drops on daft.. This boom they're on about is soely in the vested interests minds.

davo10

Op the EAs job is to push the purchase price as high as possible. He/she works for the seller not the buyer, if you were selling that house of course you would prefer to sell go 700k. Until you have signed the contract both parties can withdraw so if you feel you offered to much, just walk. But, do not expect seller to drop price just because of your survey, they may be quite happy to put it back on the market.

the_syco

Stressedms wrote: »

we're trying to cut agent out as he's mean

Eh, the seller will have to pay the EA either way, from the sellers POV, the EA is getting the max amount.

Lantus

this a question of what you can afford and how much your willing to pay.

Put the antics of the agent to one side. If you get drawn into his emotional game then he controls you.

If you can afford 700k for the house and the 60k for repairs (because 40 is probably being cautious) and you really want it then its no issue. Buy and smile.

If you do not believe the house is worth that much OR you are personally not willing or not able to pay the extra over then on the basis of the survey drop your offer price. Remember that everyone will have to do this work.

Although house buying can be a very emotional process it is ultimately a business transaction and the more you can scrutinise and pull it apart the better you will all be in the long run.

Pro Hoc Vice

Stressedms wrote: »

Hi I could really do with some advice. We went sale agreed after a very stressful process with estate agent. He hadn't gotten back to us before going sale agreed despite our offer being higher. When we found out we were very upset. I phoned and complained he didn't know who I was and when I asked price agreed he said 'no less than 650k no more than the asking €695'. We rang days later and said we wanted a chance to bid he told us he'd only do it if we we went to 700k, asked him the price at present and he refused. We feel he bullied us to 700 and from his early words suspect the offer was region of 650's.
We have just gotten a survey that's not good news we need 40k plus vat to do 'essential' repairs as house while advertised as renovated is an old house that had been covered up and structurally needs a lot of work. We now can't afford this house at price he pushed us to. We now think he pushed us this high as we suspect previous bidders were trying to drop their price after survey. Question is do we drop back to 660k? Or do we risk losing house (we're trying to cut agent out as he's mean). We figure from the agents earlier comments that house got in the 650's which means 660 is still higher, but we can hold back some money to do basics .
Thanks so much

600k+ and you are being controlled by your emotions not cold hard facts. If the EA is making life difficult, walk away, if survey shows serious problems, walk away. There are a million plus houses in the country if this one is causing serious stress, walk away.

No one pushed you to buy a house you can't afford, you made the decision. It's business plain and simple if you can't do the deal with out words like bullying and mean is this the property for you. 3/4 of a million is a lot of money, yes million and you are letting yourself be played.

The_Conductor

Until you have signed contracts- either party can walk away.
From what you have said here- at very least I'd be offering a revised offer to take into account what the survey has unearthed- but most probably I'd be walking..........

Fkall

The_Conductor wrote: »

Until you have signed contracts- either party can walk away.
From what you have said here- at very least I'd be offering a revised offer to take into account what the survey has unearthed- but most probably I'd be walking..........

If you want the house employ someone to re-negotiate on your behalf (like another EA).

At a minimum share the survey results with the EA/vendor and get a quote to rectify the issues identify. Don't go for a gold plated solution as this will only alienate the seller.

At all times be reasonable and don't get emotion.

Cuddlesworth

Stressedms wrote: »

Hi I could really do with some advice. We went sale agreed after a very stressful process with estate agent. He hadn't gotten back to us before going sale agreed despite our offer being higher. When we found out we were very upset. I phoned and complained he didn't know who I was and when I asked price agreed he said 'no less than 650k no more than the asking €695'. We rang days later and said we wanted a chance to bid he told us he'd only do it if we we went to 700k, asked him the price at present and he refused. We feel he bullied us to 700 and from his early words suspect the offer was region of 650's.
We have just gotten a survey that's not good news we need 40k plus vat to do 'essential' repairs as house while advertised as renovated is an old house that had been covered up and structurally needs a lot of work. We now can't afford this house at price he pushed us to. We now think he pushed us this high as we suspect previous bidders were trying to drop their price after survey. Question is do we drop back to 660k? Or do we risk losing house (we're trying to cut agent out as he's mean). We figure from the agents earlier comments that house got in the 650's which means 660 is still higher, but we can hold back some money to do basics .
Thanks so much

I've never met you and I have never engaged in either buying or selling a house. Everything you have written above reeks of desperation. If you even portray 10% of that in any type of negotiation you have already lost any hope of a "good" deal.

As others have said, perhaps you should employ somebody to purchase on your behalf. Your talking 700k here, a shrewd negotiator could easily help you both not overspend, be more patient and arrange a better buying price in the end.

GoingLinux

O.P. you can try "gazundering".

I did this. String them along and then find an excuse to reduce the offer just before signing the contracts...

It depends on you reading the situation (their "gaming" of you) correctly of course.

Uno my Uno.

OP if the offer that was accepted and the proposed "essential" repairs are more than you can afford you have only two options, withdraw your offer and walk away or withdraw your offer and make a lower offer that you can afford.

Don't allow yourself to be bullied by an estate agent or vendor. If you can't afford to buy the house and live in it you can't proceed with the sale. Simple as that.

cpoh1

Stressedms wrote: »

Hi I could really do with some advice. We went sale agreed after a very stressful process with estate agent. He hadn't gotten back to us before going sale agreed despite our offer being higher. When we found out we were very upset. I phoned and complained he didn't know who I was and when I asked price agreed he said 'no less than 650k no more than the asking €695'. We rang days later and said we wanted a chance to bid he told us he'd only do it if we we went to 700k, asked him the price at present and he refused. We feel he bullied us to 700 and from his early words suspect the offer was region of 650's.
We have just gotten a survey that's not good news we need 40k plus vat to do 'essential' repairs as house while advertised as renovated is an old house that had been covered up and structurally needs a lot of work. We now can't afford this house at price he pushed us to. We now think he pushed us this high as we suspect previous bidders were trying to drop their price after survey. Question is do we drop back to 660k? Or do we risk losing house (we're trying to cut agent out as he's mean). We figure from the agents earlier comments that house got in the 650's which means 660 is still higher, but we can hold back some money to do basics .
Thanks so much

Firstly you need to stop blaming the EA for doing his job and look at yourself, you are the only one responsible for agreeing to spend €700k on this house.

You also didn't take into consideration the age of the house and the potential for additional work that will be required in 90% of all houses unless you are buying brand new. You also need to remember that engineers reports are cautious by nature.

In summary you have rushed this without putting enough thought into things - you need to decide how much the house is worth to you with the work outstanding.

seamus

The sums here are actually pretty simple.

You take whatever you think the house is worth. Let's say €700k.

Then you subtract the estimated cost of essential repairs, plus 10% for ancillary decorative work plus 15% again contingency costs and various fees. This works out about €57k (when you include VAT).

You also won't be able to live in the property while the work is going on. So you're either going to have to rent for this period, or if you hold onto your current property you'll be paying a bridging loan for this period. There's a big chunk of work to be done, let's say 6 months @ €2k rent/loan per month. €12k in total.

That's €69k before you can even live in this property. So you have two options:

1. Make a revised offer of €630k or less. Put it in writing along with your calculations, attach a photocopy of the surveyor's report and make that price your absolute ceiling. Be clear and firm that you will not be offering more than that. If they refuse, walk away. If you allow yourself to be convinced to pay more, then you will be throwing your money away.

2. Walk away. You haven't signed contracts. You have no reason to be "nice" about it, but you can say that the surveyor's report has proven the house is a wreck and you have no interest in spending time renovating the house.

You're an adult with a budget of at least €700k. Don't let yourself be bullied. This is a business transaction. There is no such thing as the perfect house. Many houses are just as suitable for you as this one, and come with less baggage and cost. It's very easy for people to get really attached when looking at houses and invested in the dream, but by and large these people end up way overpaying and regretting it when they find the house isn't the panacea they thought it was, or they get their heart broken when they don't land the house.

cpoh1

seamus wrote: »

The sums here are actually pretty simple.

You take whatever you think the house is worth. Let's say €700k.

Then you subtract the estimated cost of essential repairs, plus 10% for ancillary decorative work plus 15% again contingency costs and various fees. This works out about €57k (when you include VAT).

You also won't be able to live in the property while the work is going on. So you're either going to have to rent for this period, or if you hold onto your current property you'll be paying a bridging loan for this period. There's a big chunk of work to be done, let's say 6 months @ €2k rent/loan per month. €12k in total.

That's €69k before you can even live in this property. So you have two options:

1. Make a revised offer of €630k or less. Put it in writing along with your calculations, attach a photocopy of the surveyor's report and make that price your absolute ceiling. Be clear and firm that you will not be offering more than that. If they refuse, walk away. If you allow yourself to be convinced to pay more, then you will be throwing your money away.

2. Walk away. You haven't signed contracts. You have no reason to be "nice" about it, but you can say that the surveyor's report has proven the house is a wreck and you have no interest in spending time renovating the house.

You're an adult with a budget of at least €700k. Don't let yourself be bullied. This is a business transaction. There is no such thing as the perfect house. Many houses are just as suitable for you as this one, and come with less baggage and cost. It's very easy for people to get really attached when looking at houses and invested in the dream, but by and large these people end up way overpaying and regretting it when they find the house isn't the panacea they thought it was, or they get their heart broken when they don't land the house.

Or option 3:

Decide you want the house even with the work that needs doing and come up with a compromise with the EA/owner to be partially compensated for the work required.

Your option 1 listed above is the same as 2 in reality because some of the costs you have pulled together around compensation for lack of use of house are laughable. If the original poster really wants this house then he needs to come up with a compromise with the seller.

RORY O CONNOR

I don't think you are obliged to proceed and this is typical of some agents. I would not panic if I were you-if you have a budget of €700K there are plenty of houses out there at this price level. Don't panic and don't make a decision whilst emotions are high.

I know of someone several years ago who was pushed to 625 K on a property on the grounds that there was another bidder. Turned ot it was not true. They had pulled out of the bidding and ended up buying the same house three months later for €575K Id start to ignore the agent if he is calling you! Let him sweat for a while.

Stressedms

Update on events, we dropped our offer to 660 based on survey. It has been rejected outright by both the solicitor and the estate agent (who we are avoiding). They are looking for the full 700k and to know by tomorrow otherwise it goes back on the market.

The_Conductor

Walk. Seriously do. You will considerably over-stretch yourself. You made a bid based on a false set of assumptions. You already feel you were bullied to offer 700k- and that was before you unearthed 50-60k worth of necessary repairs.

To be honest- I wouldn't even be offering the lower amount- I'd be telling them to stuff it.

You can walk without any consequence- up to signing contracts. I seriously suggest you save yourself time, effort and stress- and walk right now.

JonathonS

No matter how good it looks now, a better option will appear. If you rush in now you will regret it. We had a similar experience with a gun to the head take-it-or-leave it ultimatum, and walked. We got a better house about 3 months later. Play hardball, pass if you are not 100% happy with the financials, and move on.

davo10

As it looks like you will miss out on this one OP, I think you should remember something in future, surveyors work for you, you employ them to find faults and they always find them no matter how new or old the house is, no matter how well built it is, there will always be faults with the survey. What you have to weigh up is how important these faults are (for instance when you buy a house built in the 60's it may not be wired/plumbed/insulated to today's standards). If 10 buyers have the same house surveyed, you are likely to get 10 different reports so sellers will usually swot away reduced bids based on a "bad survey". If the faults are dangerous then of course they would need to be remedied immediately or if the house is subsiding/pyrite effected then you know the faults can't be overcome, but a boiler that isn't working or windows that aren't triple glazed or an attic that isn't insulated arent big defects, they are just not the standards accepted as the norm today.

Markcheese

Stressedms wrote: »

Update on events, we dropped our offer to 660 based on survey. It has been rejected outright by both the solicitor and the estate agent (who we are avoiding). They are looking for the full 700k and to know by tomorrow otherwise it goes back on the market.

I presume you have your own solicitor ? Let they're solicitor ring yours - have you pay'd a deposit to the estate agent ? Make sure he knows that you expect it back the moment the house goes back on the market - and remember it is just business -

cpoh1

davo10 wrote: »

As it looks like you will miss out on this one OP, I think you should remember something in future, surveyors work for you, you employ them to find faults and they always find them no matter how new or old the house is, no matter how well built it is, there will always be faults with the survey. What you have to weigh up is how important these faults are (for instance when you buy a house built in the 60's it may not be wired/plumbed/insulated to today's standards). If 10 buyers have the same house surveyed, you are likely to get 10 different reports so sellers will usually swot away reduced bids based on a "bad survey". If the faults are dangerous then of course they would need to be remedied immediately or if the house is subsiding/pyrite effected then you know the faults can't be overcome, but a boiler that isn't working or windows that aren't triple glazed or an attic that isn't insulated arent big defects, they are just not the standards accepted as the norm today.

Absolutely spot on, ive said it here many times Surveys will always find something and they are very "covey my own ass" due to the Irish litigation culture. You will need to distill through the items that are quirks with the house and things that need fixing asap as safety/structural - subsidence, burst pipes, roof defects, electrical/wiring safety issues etc.

You should get a second opinion on the €40k figure if you really have your heart set on this house, and as easy as it is for people to say walk away they are not the ones who want to buy the house!

Markcheese

While the above is true about surveyor - you are paying him to flag issues- years ago I was bidding on a house- auctioneer was pushing sale through quick - but insisted on every bidder having done a survey before bidding ( sale had fallen through before) - engineer did me a favour ,went in on a Saturday morning and rang me to tell me he was up to a 40 grand bill to repair and hadn't gone upstairs yet- I could hear estate agent in background having a heart attack - house came up for sale at least 4 times in next few years without renovation - too expensive to fix up- trust your engineer-

by the seaside

cpoh1 wrote: »

Absolutely spot on, ive said it here many times Surveys will always find something and they are very "covey my own ass" due to the Irish litigation culture. You will need to distill through the items that are quirks with the house and things that need fixing asap as safety/structural - subsidence, burst pipes, roof defects, electrical/wiring safety issues etc.

You should get a second opinion on the €40k figure if you really have your heart set on this house, and as easy as it is for people to say walk away they are not the ones who want to buy the house!

I agree to an extent. But fall in love with a house before you buy it and you lose the negotiations. Leave the revised offer on the table and walk away, I would advise.