Models and insurance

Ben D Bus

There's a thread going on over on Purple Port (UK site for models & photographers) about insurance and it has me wondering if the same rules apply here.

Are there any photographers on here who hire models for payment and if you do, do you have employers liability insurance?

The thread on PP seems to be quite clear that this is the type of insurance needed in the UK.

I've always worked on the assumption that if I'm in a studio, then the studio insurance is enough and if at home then a paid model would be in the same category as any other visitor who was here to work (plumber, painter, postman)

Not looking for legal advice (although pointers would be welcomed), just curious as to what others have done.

Balfey1972

@Ben D Bus, the thread would be correct. If you hire a model, even if you use a model and are giving them images in return for their time and no payment exchanging hands the courts would deem a contract being in place.

If an injury was to occur to a model and you were deemed negligent, a light stand falling, they were to trip over a cable for example you would need Employers Liability cover. Same if you are a wedding photographer and using second shooters.

Some photographers have contracts in place advising they they accept no liability if an injury was to happen but you would need legal advice on this because if it went to court it may not be sufficient.

Crazy I know but with ever increasing claims you need to be aware of the possible exposures to you and your business.

Paulw

Would it not be covered under Public Liability, rather than Employers Liability, since they are not an employee? It is a business contract alright, but they are not under your employment surely?

flyingsnail

Paulw wrote: »

Would it not be covered under Public Liability, rather than Employers Liability, since they are not an employee? It is a business contract alright, but they are not under your employment surely?

An interesting thought, are they an employee (even just for the day), a self employed contractor or an employee of a modelling agency.

almorris

flyingsnail wrote: »

An interesting thought, are they an employee (even just for the day), a self employed contractor or an employee of a modelling agency.

Much understanding is that if they work for money from other agencies (people) then they are self employed and as such you do not need EL.

Paulw

flyingsnail wrote: »

An interesting thought, are they an employee (even just for the day), a self employed contractor or an employee of a modelling agency.

I doubt they would fall under the category of employee under Irish law, since you are not employing them - you are not paying PAYE, PRSI and other charges for their service. You do not issue them a payslip, a P60 nor P45.

You are hiring them for a service, which would usually make them a contractor.

So, I would assume it comes under PL, rather than EL.

Balfey1972

It all comes down to the relationship and services of the model. In the scenerio above it is very unlikely that the courts would deem the model as an employee.

They would deem them as a contractor but again if it is a regular gig, say for instance you were doing classes once per week using the same model at same time etc they may have grounds where they could be deemed as an employee but there are a number of indicators that are used by the legal people to ascertain this.

Also if you use models from an Agency just check the T&C's to make sure they do not insist on you having EL cover as part of your agreement with them.

In the example for instance of a second shooter, they would be more than likely deemed as an employee as they would be acting under direct instructions, where and what to do etc. and you should have EL cover for this.

Each insurer is different to be honest and it is a grey area of where the line is crossed from PL to EL cover particularly when it comes to the use of models. I have asked our own insurers for written clarification on the matter and will let you know what they come back with.

Alltherage

Oh that's interesting, I had always thought the difference would be having a contract of service vs a contract for service.

Balfey1972

OK folks, just to clarify that this is the view of the Insurers that we deal with. If you have a policy elsewhere get on to them and clarify.

PL would pick up this cover in the event of a model being used and injured during a a photo shoot.

PL cover excludes any claims brought by employees, and it does, however for it to be excluded they must be under a contract of employment or be an apprentice, of which the model is neither.

Hope this clarifies. Give me a shout if you have any questions or queries.

Derek.

Paulw

Balfey1972 wrote: »

PL cover excludes any claims brought by employees, and it does, however for it to be excluded they must be under a contract of employment or be an apprentice, of which the model is neither.

Now, using a 2nd shooter for an event? :cool: Would they be "under a contract of employment"??