Forgiveness

LegacyUser

Hi,

I`d really appreciate some advice on a big stumbling block in my life. I`m in counseling and working hard towards dealing with my issues. How do you forgive people who wrong you? Being angry at people only hurts me and I know that. I`ve seen other people forgive terrible things and it seems genuine and freeing for them. I know I heard someone say one time forgiveness is a choice you make every day, I just can`t understand how that hostility doesn`t spill over or the anger doesn`t eat them up inside. I`ve known some people who can forgive easily but they seem to actually forget. Thanks in advance.

santana75

I think its an interesting question and not an easy one to answer. Just look at how many responses you've had so far and you'll see its something people just dont understand or want to even look at.
I think when people say forgiveness is a choice I think what they mean is when you carry around anger at someone all it does is warp and disrupt your life, it doesnt make a dent on the person you're angry with. So in effect by not forgiving it means you're punishing yourself. But having said that it can feel so raw and visceral that you dont want to let go of the anger at someone. To do that it feels like youre letting them off the hook or brushing aside what they did to you. When you feel like that it can feel un natural and forced to forgive. And when its that powerfully raw I dont think its a logical choice you make, I think its something that eventually works itself out, but only in the spirit of forgiveness. Like recognizing the detrimental effect on holding anger has on you and a desire to not make yourself suffer. If you have that mindset then eventually you'll get there.

Dee01

Hi op, well done for going to counselling to try sort this. I think it's like you say in your post, it's a choice you make yourself. I would be similar to you in that I find it hard to let go, but holding on to things is not punishing the person who has wronged you, it's only punishing Yourself. You are the one consumed with the feelings and the hurt.

I think the easiest way to start to forgive someone is to deal with the issues with your counsellor. When you start to deal with your issues, you will start to feel better about them. Then it's a choice of holding on to the feelings towards the person/situation that cause you hurt or trying to let go and move on with your life. Start small, use positive thinking - tell yourself you have forgiven and act like you have forgiven. It will be difficult and against what you are naturally feeling in the beginning, but if you keep telling youself that same thing, your brain will follow suit. Best of luck with it op.

Feel

In my opinion it could be important to forgive yourself to reduce the anger. In some questions it is not possible to forgive others.

Shrap

In my experience with anger towards someone and ending up feeling able to forgive, it isn't just a switch that you can throw and then everything is alright. I know that when I felt the hostility that you describe and the anger eating me up, the hugest step forward for me was that I let myself feel the anger. It was justifiable anger. I forgave myself for feeling that angry, if you like, and I stopped beating myself up for not feeling forgiveness. The anger lasted a while (I'd say the best part of 2 years) and gradually it dissipated, and what was left was a feeling of insight that I had gone through something and come out the other side, completely independently of the person I had been so angry about.

While I had not (and still haven't) forgotten the cause of the anger, it was like I no longer cared so much about the effect they'd had on me because I was a stronger person having allowed myself to feel furious, and then come out the other side. Over time, the new basis of not caring so much about the effect they'd had allowed me to start to reconstruct a relationship on my new terms. The person was my mother, and I'm greatly relieved (now) we have a relationship now that doesn't include my anger towards her - don't know if the person you are angry with is still in your life as you go through this, but I will say that if so, for me, cutting contact to a very basic level while I allowed myself to be angry was very important.

In shorter words, when you yourself come to terms with feeling angry and forgive yourself for that by acknowledging that you have every bloody right to your anger, you will gradually be in a position to feel more rational(*) about the person. Just don't start with the premise of forgiveness. People bang on about forgiving all the time, but it's a process, not a switch that gets thrown IMO.

Edit: *Scratch that - anger is entirely rational. You will gradually be in a position to feel less anger about the person.

LegacyUser

Thanks for your responses everyone.

I absolutely want to let go and be free to move forward. It is my family of origin and I decided to cut them out a while ago. They aren`t awful people actually, they`re all popular and successful, their biggest flaw would be selfishness. My counselor says I suffered abuse but tbh I think thats a very strong word, no sexual, minimal violence and emotional probably pretty normal for most people.

There are some issues my mother had which she reflected onto me which messed me up and colored everyone else`s opinion of me. There was always an inference in my family that I was somehow inherently bad.

When something terrible happened and I needed their support they not only completely abandon me but made fun of me also. The fact that they found my suffering laughable made me sure I was making the right decision for me, my oh and kids. They also showed no propensity to change their opinion of me even after I thought we had previously sorted some issue and they apologized they went back to the same ways. I was often the person who stepped in when needed and was there for them so I know I wasn`t some terrible person either, they use to make fun of my charitable behavior actually.

Its fundamentally changed me from the trusting, caring and carefree person I was. I don`t know how to open back up and I can`t go back to being ignorant. I hate the thoughts of living life as a hardened cynical person so I`m clinging to my past I think where I honestly believed most people were good and had other best interests at heart. I`m angry at myself for my naivety too, I`m suppose to be smart but I certainly don`t feel it.

Littlekittylou

It helps if someone apologizes and you feel they are genuine in seeing the error of their ways. But forgiveness does not always mean letting people in your life everyday. Some people you need some distance from to give forgiveness.

Other things happen in life as it goes on and those events trigger feelings which are prioritized over the past as time goes by.

The better part of people fails. The higher part of a human perhaps is something they never act on. Forgive their better nature even though they may not live though that nature.

You can't let people into your life again who behave in these ways. You must forgive and let go of some people.

You don't learn better trust you learn to judge better.

Take care OP.

zeffabelli

Forgiveness is not reconciliation for a start.

I think there are different kinds of "forgetting." It's one thing to remember cognitively,but if betrayal is trapped in the body that is a very different kind of forgetting that may take some outside assistance because of neurological loops- the betrayal is not in the past, it is very much present, which makes it impossible to grieve. You can'r grieve something that is not over.

I see forgiveness as part of a mourning process.... and maybe one of the obstacles to forgiveness is a refusal to mourn, because we at some level want to remain attached. Im not preaching from on high by the way, I struggle with this myself.

Some people wont forgive because they think its somehow letting them off the hook, somehow granting moral approval.... this is silly self destructive thinking and I suspect a masquerade for the refusal to mourn. It's also taking a smug morally superior stance.

With the shock of betrayal, yes you can't trust yourself. You got it all wrong! Right? The deception is the root of the trauma.... This is a hard hard part of recovery.

When people abuse others, mistreat them, trick them etc....they have participated in the creation of a monster. You are now bitter and angry, and these are the initial brushstrokes to monsterhood. Don't let them succeed. I know what it is like to want to get back to the person you were, but you can't ever go back there, and...the person you were was the person who led you to this betrayal in the first place, so maybe that's not so smart either.

Maybe the best thing to do, so that you do not betray yourself, so you cut off their damage at the curb, is commit to yourself to do your best to transform this hurt.

Anger is a healthy reaction, it's taboo in the culture, but honestly its what stops you from being a doormat. It's a sign that there is some healthy self esteem there. And you havent done anything destructive with it, so feel strong and noble for that, because its hard to manage this.

Reframe the past and start with compassion for yourself. You cannot have compassion for others, until you have it for yourself.

Mayboy

Hi,

You don't need to forgive. There is a 'movement or thinking' around forgiveness in society- how important it is, how necessary it is etc, but really it only happens if you are really ready to forgive and if the other party has acknowledged and apologised for their damaging behaviour. So, don't get hooked into thinking you 'have to forgive' or you should get to the 'place for forgiveness' it may not be the case for you. If you can work on realising that your family of origin have a value system that is different than yours and within that difference lies your history of difficulty with them then that is really all you need to work with. Don't forgive unless you really can. Good luck with your work, you sound super insightful and are doing your best to move on.

LegacyUser

I am so relieved to see this topic discussed here. I have read some wise and helpful comments already.
I am struggling terribly with anger and loss and grief having been betrayed by close friends. Sometimes the intensity and ferocity scares me.
I really want to be over it but I'm having great difficulty in finding my way through to some sort of acceptance and somehow taking this huge and painful burden off my back.
I feel this tangled mess of emotion is hurting only me, the ex friends are probably largely oblivious. I feel both physically sick and am driven to tears every day. I genuinely have some concerns of the effects on my health.
But as others have put it, despite wanting it to pass, there is not a switch which can click off those feelings of hurt and betrayal.
I'm going to try to take on board that yes, I have every bl**dy right to be <Snip> angry and that yes, it might take many more months if not years to not feel so damned crushed every single day and that maybe, maybe I will never be able to forgive.

shaymus27

Mayboy wrote: »

Hi,

You don't need to forgive. There is a 'movement or thinking' around forgiveness in society- how important it is, how necessary it is etc, but really it only happens if you are really ready to forgive and if the other party has acknowledged and apologised for their damaging behaviour. So, don't get hooked into thinking you 'have to forgive' or you should get to the 'place for forgiveness' it may not be the case for you. If you can work on realising that your family of origin have a value system that is different than yours and within that difference lies your history of difficulty with them then that is really all you need to work with. Don't forgive unless you really can. Good luck with your work, you sound super insightful and are doing your best to move on.

I think there is a lot of wisdom in the above reply.

The reference in the above reply re: different value system - my version is that if they are selfish, successful, belittle you for not being like them really, laugh at your charitable deeds to them then they seem like people who are self-orientated, success - orientated, driven, tough, lack sensitivity, possibly a bit ruthless and uncaring about others. Different personality types who will thus have different value systems.

If you are more sensitive and less of everything they are, then they probably look on you as a soft mug who isn't like them and unfortunately show that to you in many ways.

If you are sensitive then these rejections of you etc. will be felt a lot.

I don't know about forgiveness.

My view is that you are entitled to blame others when blame is due. You're entitled to be angry at them. At some point you have to accept they did wrong, you were wronged and stop thinking that just because they are family that this is an on-going issue you will never get over. If family aren't good for you forget family. Move on and enjoy what is now in your life. I think we keep hearing the message of how important family is, but if it is bad for you then forget them and focus on what is good for you. You don't have to forgive them, just forget them. The danger to me of not blaming others is that you will blame yourself.

The reply I included at the top from someone else might suggest that because of different value systems (my version is different personality types) that you might reflect on that. Just remember some people are so and so's and most people don't think "well they were only mean to me because they have a different value system or personality type". They think "that person is a *********, bad luck to them" or worse...

Most people wouldn't like your family by the sound of them. I know of someone who ended their life because they constantly felt like a failure in a success - orientated family. The only person they reached out to was an insensitive man who was the last person they should have reached out to.

Not everyone is like your family but as you couldn't be open, soft and nice around your own family you feel like not being like that again with others. This would be a shame. Be soft and nice around people who you know will appreciate it and this side of you will blossom and will be able to cope with the inevitable times when some people don't respond to you in the way you should be responded to.

To not be open, soft and nice ever again would be to not be your true beautiful self. You won't be truly happy. Make an effort to be around like minded people and enjoy being you. As the ad says..."because you're worth it" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LegacyUser

Wow amazing responses, I`ll probably still be digesting them in a week. I have felt strongly that I`m failing by not being able to forgive and your comments have helped so much with that.

You are spot on re differing value systems. My counselor said to me that I`m in the minority when it comes to what I value - people. To me it was unimaginable that money, success or status came before a person. I probably sound really stupid but I just couldn`t see past my default. I know that I`ve felt worthless and now I understand that to them I am valueless. I need to set my own value and focus on building my self esteem because then I won`t be looking for that validation externally. All these things sound so cliche but it`s like before they were just words and now I get it.

Littlekittylou

Not everyone is like your family

It's true what Shaymus says. My family are totally different to yours. But I have seen people like them. I know now that people like me and them generally should not be around each other. Not unless there is a lot of tolerance and respect for each other.

To not be open, soft and nice ever again would be to not be your true beautiful self. You won't be truly happy. Make an effort to be around like minded people and enjoy being you. As the ad says..."because you're worth it" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reply I included at the top from someone else might suggest that because of different value systems (my version is different personality types) that you might reflect on that. Just remember some people are so and so's and most people don't think "well they were only mean to me because they have a different value system or personality type".

I have always realized that actually my personality type is rare.


It's important to be around people whom if they cannot share your values at least like you and so make allowances.

Generally I understand that by other people's value systems they may see me as meaningless and treat me accordingly. You will end up despising and hating these people unless you move on.

You don't have to forgive them, just forget them. The danger to me of not blaming others is that you will blame yourself.

This is true.

Let them find what they are looking for according to their own values. Respect their choices. Some people are not meant to be close. The energy is wrong.

Make an effort to be around like minded people and enjoy being you.

Amen.

You might not always find like minded people ...but at the very least find people who like you just the way you are.

Make peace with it and move on from people who are not good for you.

They don't get you they don't understand you they probably can't even really see you properly. It doesn't matter,make peace with it and move on from people who are not good for you.

Contrast within personalities can make for incompatibility or balance ying yang style.

Be soft and nice around people who you know will appreciate it and this side of you will blossom and will be able to cope with the inevitable times when some people don't respond to you in the way you should be responded to.

HERE HERE ..applause!
You deserve respect care and loyalty.

Big Bag of Chips

I think in your case forgiveness is the wrong word you are looking for. Forgiveness can only really work if the person/people are truly sorry for what they have done. It sounds like, as already mentioned, this is a sort personality clash between you and your family, with your family putting more importance in things that you don't. It would be very difficult for you to forgive people for making you feel small and insignificant, if they continue to make you feel small and insignificant. In that instance you "forgiving" them would make you a bit of a push over!

Maybe "acceptance" is a better thing for you to aim for. Accept your family are the way they are. Accept you will never have the relationship that you would like with them. Accept that they are too different to you. I heard a saying one time, and I think it holds true for you - "They'll need you before you need them". I think the thing you will find about your family though is, in time when they need help - maybe as your parents get older and need looking after, you will be the one they depend on because they know the rest of the family are too selfish. That is where you will be needed. You don't need them at the moment, but they will definitely need you in the future. When that time comes it will be up to you whether or not you want to go back to them and be a help. And maybe if/when that time comes the forgiveness will come with it.

But as other posters have said, it is a process. Not an act that happens over night. And I think acceptance of your situation will bring with it forgiveness, in time.

Good luck to you. I'd rather be your type of person than your family's type any day.

zeffabelli

It's a call to find your tribe.

Littlekittylou

shaymus27 wrote: »

I know of someone who ended their life because they constantly felt like a failure in a success - orientated family. The only person they reached out to was an insensitive man who was the last person they should have reached out to.

By the way I know we are meant to stay on topic. But I am so very sorry about this shaymus.

Littlekittylou

zeffabelli wrote: »

It's a call to find your tribe.

The truth is though. I move between tribes. People are not in boxes. I think it's harder for people who are a mixed bag or varied.

Littlekittylou

My counselor says I suffered abuse but tbh I think thats a very strong word, no sexual, minimal violence and emotional probably pretty normal for most people.

There are some issues my mother had which she reflected onto me which messed me up and colored everyone else`s opinion of me. There was always an inference in my family that I was somehow inherently bad.

I am sorry OP.

My counselor said to me that I`m in the minority when it comes to what I value - people. To me it was unimaginable that money, success or status came before a person. I probably sound really stupid but I just couldn`t see past my default. I know that I`ve felt worthless and now I understand that to them I am valueless.

Perhaps this negates their own sense of guilt for the way they should have been growing up to you.

Littlekittylou

Guest said

I am so relieved to see this topic discussed here. I have read some wise and helpful comments already.
I am struggling terribly with anger and loss and grief having been betrayed by close friends. Sometimes the intensity and ferocity scares me.
I really want to be over it but I'm having great difficulty in finding my way through to some sort of acceptance and somehow taking this huge and painful burden off my back.
I feel this tangled mess of emotion is hurting only me, the ex friends are probably largely oblivious. I feel both physically sick and am driven to tears every day. I genuinely have some concerns of the effects on my health.

Heal the pain that was caused and when you experience happiness again it will help.