setting up a tax return business

Hi guys,

Looking to set up a small business preparing tax returns for sole traders/ farmers ect.

I am not an accountant but I have an hons degree in accountancy.
I am thinking of doing the tax technician course provided by AITI, to freshen up, do you think this will suffice or is this a bad idea in general.

Any advise would be appreciated.

barneystinson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hi guys,

Looking to set up a small business preparing tax returns for sole traders/ farmers ect.

I am not an accountant but I have an hons degree in accountancy.
I am thinking of doing the tax technician course provided by AITI, to freshen up, do you think this will suffice or is this a bad idea in general.

Any advise would be appreciated.

What experience do you actually have?
Will you deal with Revenue queries / audits, negotiating settlements, dealing with the CGs about arrears?
Will you provide advice about tax planning?
Who'll pay if you make a hames of a return and cost a client thousands in interest & penalties?

A "tax return service" without the other bits mentioned above is only really applicable to PAYE workers.

barneystinson

hames?

been doing tax returns for years, im not an idiot, I wouldn't want to set up a business doing tax returns if I was not able to do so and knew nothing about tax nor had experience in.
I was asking is it worth doing it as my main/part main income, all be it doing it on a small scale in a small town, without charging astronomical fees accountant do.
Obviously any "accountant" is not going to think its a good idea.

barneystinson wrote: »

What experience do you actually have?
Will you deal with Revenue queries / audits, negotiating settlements, dealing with the CGs about arrears?
Will you provide advice about tax planning?
Who'll pay if you make a hames of a return and cost a client thousands in interest & penalties?

A "tax return service" without the other bits mentioned above is only really applicable to PAYE workers.

barneystinson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

hames?

been doing tax returns for years, im not an idiot, I wouldn't want to set up a business doing tax returns if I was not able to do so and knew nothing about tax nor had experience in.
I was asking is it worth doing it as my main/part main income, all be it doing it on a small scale in a small town, without charging astronomical fees accountant do.
Obviously any "accountant" is not going to think its a good idea.

You didnt really address my questions though?

As for hames: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/hames

barneystinson

I don't think you really asked any genuine questions, you just indicated that I would make a "hames" of it.

barneystinson wrote: »

You didnt really address my questions though?

barneystinson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think you really asked any genuine questions, you just indicated that I would make a "hames" of it.

With respect, you've 20-odd posts on boards, none of them in the taxation forum, and while you said you've a degree in accountancy, that's irrelevant if you've no practical experience of preparing accounts and filing returns.

Hence my questions, to try to draw some more info from you and make you aware, if you weren't already, that there's more to being a tax advisor for small businesses than simply taking the shoebox of papers and turning it into a Form 11.

And I didnt say you'd make a hames of it - the inference of that comment was that you should have PI insurance IN CASE you do...

Anyway, since you don't seem to want to hear constructive advice I'll bow out now.

Sunny Dayz

Would there really be much demand for just tax return preparations? It normally goes hand in hand with the accounts preparation. I don't know many people who get accounts prepared in one place and tax return prepared in another, maybe a joint assessed couple with different accountants.
Also would you need a practicing cert for that?

barneystinson

I understand all that, I have explained that I have some knowledge and experience. My question is weather or not setting up a business doing it for a main income is a good idea not being an accountant.

There Is a difference in constructive and negative.
you think its a bad idea and that a degree and tax technician cert is irrelevant and that's fine, its your opinion.

barneystinson wrote: »

With respect, you've 20-odd posts on boards, none of them in the taxation forum, and while you said you've a degree in accountancy, that's irrelevant if you've no practical experience of preparing accounts and filing returns.

Hence my questions, to try to draw some more info from you and make you aware, if you weren't already, that there's more to being a tax advisor for small businesses than simply taking the shoebox of papers and turning it into a Form 11.

And I didnt say you'd make a hames of it - the inference of that comment was that you should have PI insurance IN CASE you do...

Anyway, since you don't seem to want to hear constructive advice I'll bow out now.

Sunny Dayz

If you were very well up on iXBRL you might get some advantage over some accountants.

Sunny Dayz

sorry meant to say ill be preparing the accounts also, the tax return would be the easy bit once accounts prepared.

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Would there really be much demand for just tax return preparations? It normally goes hand in hand with the accounts preparation. I don't know many people who get accounts prepared in one place and tax return prepared in another, maybe a joint assessed couple with different accountants.
Also would you need a practicing cert for that?

barneystinson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I understand all that, I have explained that I have some knowledge and experience. My question is weather or not setting up a business doing it for a main income is a good idea not being an accountant.

There Is a difference in constructive and negative.
you think its a bad idea and that a degree and tax technician cert is irrelevant and that's fine, its your opinion.

Why are you putting words in my mouth?!

Qualifications aren't irrelevant, I've got plenty myself and they're lovely to have, but it's your actual practical tax knowledge and understanding of the law and of commercial reality that add value.

So I think it's a bad idea, unless one has got both the requisite qualifications AND experience, and can offer the additional services I asked about in my reply to your OP. Bad idea for the advisor and bad idea for the clients.

Mr. Incognito

You are not qualified in accountacy.

Its a three year qualification plus working.

You are not qualified in tax. Its a three year qualification plus work experience.

You dont know what you are doing.

Farmers are more than form 11 returns. They are agricultural relief for cat. Wasting chattels for cgt. Flat rate for vat.

A college degree is worthless without real world experience.

You WILL advise on things you know nothing about and get sued because you will not have professional indemnity insurance because you cant get any because you are not qualified.

Only people that know nothing would know nothing about how stupid an idea this is because they know nothing about how much they can screw up and how severe the tax penalties are when they do.

Tax technician course to "freshen up"???

You know nothing to freshen up. Look at the syllabus. It would be new to masters accountacy students.

barneystinson

barneystinson wrote: »

Why are you putting words in my mouth?!

Qualifications aren't irrelevant, I've got plenty myself and they're lovely to have, but it's your actual practical tax knowledge and understanding of the law and of commercial reality that add value.

So I think it's a bad idea, unless one has got both the requisite qualifications AND experience, and can offer the additional services I asked about in my reply to your OP. Bad idea for the advisor and bad idea for the clients.

I deal with everything u asked in your first post. I prepare accounts and file tax returns for a small amount of self employed people, who are very happy with my services, and come back to me every year for a quarter of what accountants were charging them.
What I am asking is, is it worth doing it full time as my main income.

Mr. Incognito

Yes. It certainly is. The sooner you are barred from representing people the better. Expanding is a sure way to make this happen quickly.

I would guess you are registering people on paye online and think you are a tax genius.

There is no way in hell you are filling out form 11s accurately or at all. Of course people are satisfied. Its only when Revenue come and double check do these poor people realise they are on the hook for massive interest and penalties. Then Revenue will come knock on your door looking for your credentials. An honours accountancy degree wont cut it.

Hold on, you are saying you are advising on Revenue audits and you are not a qualified professional?

You are aware this is illegal? Revenue have stiff penalties for this kind of thing

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/code-of-practice-revenue-audit.pdf

Page 17 refers. These are applied by Revenue to unqualified persons

Mr. Incognito

Just close this thread.
I should have known it would be full of these types of dickhead replies not even reading what I have stated already.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You are not qualified in accountacy.

Its a three year qualification plus working.

You are not qualified in tax. Its a three year qualification plus work experience.

You dont know what you are doing.

Farmers are more than form 11 returns. They are agricultural relief for cat. Wasting chattels for cgt. Flat rate for vat.

A college degree is worthless without real world experience.

You WILL advise on things you know nothing about and get sued because you will not have professional indemnity insurance because you cant get any because you are not qualified.

Only people that know nothing would know nothing about how stupid an idea this is because they know nothing about how much they can screw up and how severe the tax penalties are when they do.

Tax technician course to "freshen up"???

You know nothing to freshen up. Look at the syllabus. It would be new to masters accountacy students.

melekalikimaka

amazing read

Mr. Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Just close this thread.
I should have known it would be full of these types of dickhead replies not even reading what I have stated already.

Closing the thread is tempting but i think its in your long term interest ( keeping you out of jail) if we just flag it with the admins.

I cant believe people like you exist.

barneystinson

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Yes. It certainly is. The sooner you are barred from representing people the better. Expanding is a sure way to make this happen quickly.

I would guess you are registering people on paye online and think you are a tax genius.

There is no way in hell you are filling out form 11s accurately or at all. Of course people are satisfied. Its only when Revenue come and double check do these poor people realise they are on the hook for massive interest and penalties. Then Revenue will come knock on your door looking for your credentials. An honours accountancy degree wont cut it.

Hold on, you are saying you are advising on Revenue audits and you are not a qualified professional?

You are aware this is illegal? Revenue have stiff penalties for this kind of thing

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/code-of-practice-revenue-audit.pdf

Page 17 refers. These are applied by Revenue to unqualified persons

There is (unfortunately) no regulation on who can register as a tax agent, if a taxpayer is innocent / naive / foolish enough to choose someone unqualified.

Anecdotally I know there are people who have been convicted of white collar fraud and/or Revenue offences, kicked out of professional bodies (if indeed they were ever in one) and continue to operate as accountants/agents... proudly touting their prior scrapes with "the man" as proof of their willingness and ability to pull a stroke - there's a market for everything so it would seem... (Birds of a feather etc...!)

Mr. Incognito

barneystinson wrote: »

There is (unfortunately) no regulation on who can register as a tax agent, if a taxpayer is innocent / naive / foolish enough to choose someone unqualified.

Anecdotally I know there are people who have been convicted of white collar fraud and/or Revenue offences, kicked out of professional bodies (if indeed they were ever in one) and continue to operate as accountants/agents... proudly touting their prior scrapes with "the man" as proof of their willingness and ability to pull a stroke - there's a market for everything so it would seem... (Birds of a feather etc...!)

Thats depressing.

dudara

Deleted User wrote: »

Just close this thread.
I should have known it would be full of these types of dickhead replies not even reading what I have stated already.

These are not "dickhead" replies. In order to provide advisory services, you need professional indemnity insurance. I sincerely doubt that you will be able to obtain that without proper qualifications.

While I appreciate the initiative you are showing, I don't think you've thought through all the angles yet.

Temp closing this thread until the Tax mods can review.