DMF worth replacing on 10 year old Superb

quad_red

Just had the old wagon in for servicing and they confirmed that the tick tick tick from the engine bay is the DMF. Going in to talk to them later but would like opinions on what to do.

It's a ten year old Skoda Superb. No other mechanical issues. Hasn't cost me anything above the normal really beyond timing belt and other consumables.

She's got around 150k KMs on board. Had intended on keeping her til she would go no further really. Hassle free comfortable motoring!

Garage saying around a grand to replace but a while left in it yet.

Would ye change the DMF on a ten year old car? Is it worth it?

charcosull

I got the DMF done on my car recently.
I bought a good second hand part from a car that was written off for about 170 euro.
got an independent garage to fit it for 220.
I didn't think it was worth getting a new one for 900 euro.

tossy

Whats the car worth to you ? Your choices are

A. Replace the DMF and clutch and drive on in a car you know the history of and have otherwise (i presume) kept mechanically sound.

B. Sell the car for a reduced value then try find a replacement which will cost more than the clutch and flywheel and you also can't be sure of it's history.

It's A for me a no brainer.

keithclancy

quad_red wrote: »

Just had the old wagon in for servicing and they confirmed that the tick tick tick from the engine bay is the DMF. Going in to talk to them later but would like opinions on what to do.

It's a ten year old Skoda Superb. No other mechanical issues. Hasn't cost me anything above the normal really beyond timing belt and other consumables.

She's got around 150k KMs on board. Had intended on keeping her til she would go no further really. Hassle free comfortable motoring!

Garage saying around a grand to replace but a while left in it yet.

Would ye change the DMF on a ten year old car? Is it worth it?

If you were replacing it then I would recommend you find out why it failed as well.

http://www.techtalk.ie/index.php/why-do-dual-mass-flywheels-fail/706

Engine misfires – static and under load

• Uneven running – a cylinder to cylinder imbalance will have a major effect

• Compressions – low compression on one cylinder will create an engine imbalance

• Starting issues – does the vehicle start and stop cleanly, coughing and spluttering on start up will create extra vibration

• Cranking speed – slow cranking speeds will provide prolonged activity within the DMF

• Is the vehicle used for towing or carrying items? – towing excessive loads (particu- larly common with commercial vehicles) will push a DMF beyond its limits

• Chip tuning – each DMF’s damping rate is tuned to the engine its fitted to, therefore modifying the engine or ECU will drasti- cally shorten the life of the DMF

• Driving style – trying to save fuel by

driving in the wrong gear will labour the engine creating more vibration (common with Taxis)

150,000 KM is very small mileage.

Also I'd get a second opinion, a lot of Garages will just agree with you when you ask if its the flywheel.

Bring it to another place, say you don't know whats wrong with it and see what they say it is.

quad_red

charcosull wrote: »

I got the DMF done on my car recently.
I bought a good second hand part from a car that was written off for about 170 euro.
got an independent garage to fit it for 220.
I didn't think it was worth getting a new one for 900 euro.

How did you find it? Just call around garages looking for a write off?

charcosull

quad_red wrote: »

How did you find it? Just call around garages looking for a write off?

I found it on ebay from a breakers in the U.K.
A bit of trust is needed as they were saying the car had 30,000 miles on it when crashed.
Their user feedback was all positive so I took the risk and it worked out.

Special Circumstances

keithclancy wrote: »

If you were replacing it then I would recommend you find out why it failed as well.

Does anyone really expect a DMF to last the life of a diesel car? Isn't it just one of the things you write off against all the money saved in fuel?

Edit - 150k and 10 years is better than some in fairness

H3llR4iser

quad_red wrote: »

...It's a ten year old Skoda Superb. No other mechanical issues. Hasn't cost me anything above the normal really beyond timing belt and other consumables...

I collected my own car yesterday, new clutch+DMF on it. It's a 2006 Alfa 159, and the job (with genuine parts) costed well above the one grand mark. Yes, some petrol cars have a DMF as well.

The concept is very simple - if the rest of the car is fine, it's a total no brainer. The clutch + DMF assembly has a major role in the way the car drives and feel, and you'll notice it; Mine feels like brand new now, it didn't drive this well even when I got it two years ago.

If you wanted to replace the whole car, you need to spend much more than the 1,000 you need to do the repair, if you want a car in similar conditions. Also, in your case there's an added bonus: it's a Skoda, a brand that has many fans in Ireland, and if you decide to sell it in a year or two while it's still in good shape you'll probably get a little bit of money for it.

mgbgt1978

Or change it for a solid flywheel kit. Kits from €290 or so plus around €300 for fitting.
You could replace the DMF now and it could easily fail again in as little as 20k.

keithclancy

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Or change it for a solid flywheel kit. Kits from €290 or so plus around €300 for fitting.
You could replace the DMF now and it could easily fail again in as little as 20k.

If you correct the problem as to why it failed in the first place this should not happen.

IMO I've driven a Single Mass Flywheel conversion on a 1.9TDI Passat and it was fairly rough.

H3llR4iser

keithclancy wrote: »

If you correct the problem as to why it failed in the first place this should not happen.

IMO I've driven a Single Mass Flywheel conversion on a 1.9TDI Passat and it was fairly rough.

It's worth investigating, but I frankly don't think a flywheel needing to be replaced after 10 years to be a major issue - it is a highly stressed component afterall.

As for the conversion to a solid one, I agree - most cars become absurdly rough, and in many instances there is an entire slew of cases where the vibration led to gearbox failure.

ION08

Is this a 1.9 TDI ?

150km is nothing on these!

If the car has served you so well you'd be mad to get rid of it because of what is essentially a consumable part starting to go on it!

There's A LOT of life left in that car.

I've an 02 A4 1.9 TDI wich just turned 140k miles , full service history and I had the Clutch and DMF changed at 115k miles..... The car drives better and is in better aesthetic and mechanical condition than other 06/07 cars I've driven!

mgbgt1978

keithclancy wrote: »

If you correct the problem as to why it failed in the first place this should not happen.

IMO I've driven a Single Mass Flywheel conversion on a 1.9TDI Passat and it was fairly rough.

It failed in the first place because it's a DMF.....I know you haven't been hiding under a rock for the past few years, so I'm guessing you have heard that DMF failure is more than common at any mileage.

mgbgt1978

H3llR4iser wrote: »

It's worth investigating, but I frankly don't think a flywheel needing to be replaced after 10 years to be a major issue - it is a highly stressed component afterall.

As for the conversion to a solid one, I agree - most cars become absurdly rough, and in many instances there is an entire slew of cases where the vibration led to gearbox failure.

On which model/engine in particular ?
Most DMF's are fitted to Engine/Gearbox combinations which were available with solid flywheels before the advent of the DMF.

H3llR4iser

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

On which model/engine in particular ?
Most DMF's are fitted to Engine/Gearbox combinations which were available with solid flywheels before the advent of the DMF.

I did investigate a bit when I had to redo mine, and a lot of 159s and Breras had awful trouble with the solid flywheel kit - keep in mind that as it had to be aftermarket, there could have been issues with the way the replacement single flywheel was made/balanced. The same issue seems to apply to most Fiat/GM/Opel assemblies of the same period, and I would imagine anything designed around a DMF won't like a single-mass, unless it's some very well crafted kit - which may end up costing more than the DMF.

bazz26

DMFs are classed as consumables so they don't have a set life expectancy.

charcosull

It very much depends on how the car is driven and what type of driving. Can't imagine a DMF would last too long in constant start/stop traffic with a driver that likes to keep the revs as low as possible.

Kevin McCloud

Weld it up and put in a spring disc.

mgbgt1978

^^^^....Transit Driver ?????

JJJJNR

Is a DMF not a flywheel, clutch and release bearing or is it something else.

Bpmull

keithclancy wrote: »

IMO I've driven a Single Mass Flywheel conversion on a 1.9TDI Passat and it was fairly rough.

Id agree with you there my dads 05 octavia 1.9tdi had an smf conversion and you would know it had it very rough a lot of vibration and noise especially in first kind of ruined the car in a lot of ways. Tbh anyone that says replacing a dmf with smf has no bad effects is talking crap certain models might handle it better than others but the 1.9 TDI doesnt handle it great. Either do it right and replace like with like or don't bother dmf's were put in cars for a reason.

ION08

JJJJNR wrote: »

Is a DMF not a flywheel, clutch and release bearing or is it something else.

A DMF is a Dual Mass Flywheel, clutch kit is seperate

dingus12

I know of a 6 cylinder diesel bmw that got 140k miles out of the first dmf and clutch, and 120k miles out of the second, one owner from new. genuine replacements used.

car was used for long journeys, they only last so long.

quad_red

Thanks for all the advice lads.

It's only making a low enough sound at the moment.

Will it do broader damage if I leave it til it gets louder?

walus

Depending on the engine but it is never good for the crankshaft and/or gearbox bearings. If it is noticeable it is time to address it.

keithclancy

quad_red wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice lads.

It's only making a low enough sound at the moment.

Will it do broader damage if I leave it til it gets louder?

Is the noise always there ? or does it appear/disappear when you press or release the clutch ?

Does it increase in frequency or volume when you press the accelerator

Easiest way to describe a banjaxed DMF would be a chattering sound.

mgbgt1978

quad_red wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice lads.

It's only making a low enough sound at the moment.

Will it do broader damage if I leave it til it gets louder?

They often take out the Starter Motor. As they wear bits of metal get into the motor and damage it.

Bpmull wrote: »

Id agree with you there my dads 05 octavia 1.9tdi had an smf conversion and you would know it had it very rough a lot of vibration and noise especially in first kind of ruined the car in a lot of ways. Tbh anyone that says replacing a dmf with smf has no bad effects is talking crap certain models might handle it better than others but the 1.9 TDI doesnt handle it great. Either do it right and replace like with like or don't bother dmf's were put in cars for a reason.

A citroen C5 and a Pug 407, replaced DMF with solid on both and really no difference before and after.
Same engine admittedly, but for this particular engine I cannot fault the solid flywheel route.

The reason usually quoted is that DMF's were used to dampen out any vibrations to make the car seem smoother for the driver....not to help the engine in any way.
A DMF clutch is solid whereas a solid flywheel clutch has springs in it which dampen the load placed on the clutch and drivetrain....pretty much the same result as a DMF.