Define the Irish Midlands

feargale

Well, what constitutes the Midlands? Do they consist of a number of counties, or are parts of some counties included, while other parts of the same counties are not?
The ancient kingdom of Mídhe, or province of Meath, comprised the modern counties of Meath and Westmeath, as well as bits of other counties. Mîdhe was the basis for the geographical boundaries of the Diocese of Meath and ultimately the medieval County of Meath. In 1543 the County of Meath was subdivided into Westmeath and Meath ( formerly and more properly called East Meath.) So I'm sure we can all agree that all of Meath and Westmeath are included, even though Meath is not an inland county. Do the Midlands go beyond that? Certainly Offaly and Laois are included in the minds of most people. True, a sizeable part of Offaly is in the Diocese of Meath. But Laois?
Kildare? It's a separate diocese and historically was not part of Mídhe, but rather of Laighen. A person living in the Bog of Allen would probably consider themselves a Midlander, but what of Athy for instance? In fact I believe that Athy was an exclave of County Dublin until the 19th century.
Longford? It constituted, with Cavan and Leitrim the Kingdom of Breiffne. Longford was part of Connacht until 1608 and was transferred to Leinster for purely military reasons.
Roscommon? It's further from the sea than some of the aforementioned counties, and was included in the Health Board's Midland Region as well as the Midland Court Circuit.
Carlow? Probably not, but don't the Scallion Eaters have a distinctly Midland accent?
Cavan? Doesn't the South Cavan accent have more than a trace of the Midlands? In the 1920s or 1930s there was a zany move on the part of some GAA people to set up a fifth province called Meath including, I think, Meath, Louth, Westmeath, Longford and Cavan.
I have always associated the Midands with three writers, Oliver Goldsmith, Francis Ledwidge and Padraic Colum. But were Goldsmith or Colum even born in the Midlands?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Goldsmith was born on either Ballymahon or Elphin depending on who you listen to.

I'm from South Roscommon and I'd consider myself a midlander. Athlone is our nearest town, most of the people in our area work, go to school, shop and socialise in Athlone. Most of us would have an variation of the Athlone brogue as a result. Then you go a few miles down the road towards Ballinasloe's hinterland and the accent changes totally, it's gas actually. My point is that while Roscommon as a county would be considered in the west, a lot of it's population might consider themselves midlanders, but by the same token, it'd be a stretch to call Ballaghadereen, Boyle or Castlerea Midlands towns. I imagine it's the same in parts of counties like Tipp, Kildare, Cavan, Meath and Leitrim.

FWIW I'd term the following as midlands;

Longford
Westmeath
Offaly
Laois
East and South east Roscommon
Southern Leitrim around Dromod and Roosky
South eastern Galway around Portumna and Eyrecourt
North Tipp around Roscrea and north of Nenagh
The western extremities of Kildare and Meath, places like Monasterevin, Rathangan, Oldcastle
South Cavan past Kilnaleck and Ballinagh

feargale

I should have mentioned North Tipperary. The Midland Tribune newspaper, based in Birr, covers Offaly and North Tipperary. The Midland Record, an online newspaper, "focuses on Laois, Offaly and Tipperary." I'm sure they don't mean to include Clonmel.

demanufactured

Adin in it.

Angron

Moved from Midlands at request of user, hope that's ok.

feargale

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

Goldsmith was born on either Ballymahon or Elphin depending on who you listen to.

FWIW I'd term the following as midlands;

Longford
Westmeath
Offaly
Laois
East and South east Roscommon
Southern Leitrim around Dromod and Roosky
South eastern Galway around Portumna and Eyrecourt
North Tipp around Roscrea and north of Nenagh
The western extremities of Kildare and Meath, places like Monasterevin, Rathangan, Oldcastle
South Cavan past Kilnaleck and Ballinagh

You seem to be including very little of Meath. I would have thought that Meath was quintessential Midlands. In fact I wonder if the very concept of the Midlands was a follow on from the old kingdom of Meath.

efb

I would consider Meath in the East


Longford
Westmeath
Offaly
Laois
North Tipp

slowburner

The Nomenclature of Units for Territorial Statistics (NUTS!) is an EU mechanism that defines administrative districts in member states for the purposes of the EU Structural Fund.
It defines the midlands as Laois, Offaly, Longford and Westmeath. They are within the Borders, Midlands and Western Regional Assembly (BMW).
So there's one way of looking at the BMW NUTS.

It would be an interesting project to contrast this fairly rigid EU definition of the midlands with how it applies to people living in the region. Whether populations outside, but close to the borders of the four counties consider themselves as midland residents and if land use and topography defines the area in a less formal but probably more realistic way.

feargale

When I was kid I heard people talk of a certain political party as deriving its core support from " big farmers in the Midlands." What county does that bring to mind if not Meath? Certainly not Offaly.

Dickie10

interesting thread i have been thinking about this myself. on point of meath in midlands, many companies use the midlands term in there company names etc. these are all based west of Navan, so i would say the places in meath that consider themselves midlands over north eastern are west and south of Kells , West of Trim and Navan. basically western and south western meath. Athboy, Ballivor, Oldcastle,Kildalkey,Enfield as far as Summerhill to the south east are all Midlands towns and villages

Dickie10

Intersetingly meath splits itself culturally and economically and politically into 4 distinct regions, North Meath(anywhere north of Kells) East Meath (anywhere east of Kentstown) south Meath anywhere south of Trim both south eastern and south western and a Navan region, as huge provincial town of 30,000 it has a big influence within 10 mile radius everywhere from Athboy in west to Duleek in East and Dunshuglin in south east and Trim in south west and perhaps Wilkinstown and kells north of Navan would be the boundaries of a Navan region. prob best described as Central Meath

DEFTLEFTHAND

feargale wrote: »

When I was kid I heard people talk of a certain political party as deriving its core support from " big farmers in the Midlands." What county does that bring to mind if not Meath? Certainly not Offaly.

Tipperary.

tabbey

feargale wrote: »

Well, what constitutes the Midlands? Do they consist of a number of counties, or are parts of some counties included, while other parts of the same counties are not?
Longford? It constituted, with Cavan and Leitrim the Kingdom of Breiffne. Longford was part of Connacht until 1608 and was transferred to Leinster for purely military reasons.
Roscommon? It's further from the sea than some of the aforementioned counties, and was included in the Health Board's Midland Region as well as the Midland Court Circuit.

The Midland Health Board territory was Lonford, Westmeath, Laois and Offaly.

Roscommon was part of the Western Health Board, with Galway and Mayo. It was never part of the Midland health region.

There is no consistency regarding government definition the Midlands. It is purely a flag of convenience for whatever purpose at the whim of any given bureaucrat or commission.

Your comments about Longford and the legal circuits are interesting, I had not been aware of this before and makes a lot of sense.

feargale

Yesterday RTE Radio 1 announced that the "three Midland counties of Kildare, Meath and Westmeath" would be holding county council meetings to hear prospective presidential candidates.

corks finest

Middle of nowhere?

Irish Kings

Ye lads could make balls of even a the simplest term like the midlands ?

Have ye ever thought of a career in the public service ?

The clue is in the name.

I'll give ye another clue.

Subtract all the counties on the coast and the border counties,

and then if you still can't work it out from there, use some common sense, or ask someone who has some.

tabbey

feargale wrote: »

Yesterday RTE Radio 1 announced that the "three Midland counties of Kildare, Meath and Westmeath" would be holding county council meetings to hear prospective presidential candidates.

They meant three county councils which happened to be in or almost in the midlands.

It is just a symptom of the low standards which prevail during holiday periods.

feargale

Irish Kings wrote: »

Ye lads could make balls of even a the simplest term like the midlands ?

Have ye ever thought of a career in the public service ?

The clue is in the name.

I'll give ye another clue.

Subtract all the counties on the coast and the border counties,

and then if you still can't work it out from there, use some common sense, or ask someone who has some.

You seem to have it all worked out:

Carlow?
Kildare?
Limerick?
Roscommon?
Tipperary?

Carrick-on-Suir in and Longwood out?

The Border? The Midlands existed as a concept long before the border was heard of.

We await your response, smart boy.

slowburner

Irish Kings wrote: »

Ye lads could make balls of even a the simplest term like the midlands ?

Have ye ever thought of a career in the public service ?

The clue is in the name.

I'll give ye another clue.

Subtract all the counties on the coast and the border counties,

and then if you still can't work it out from there, use some common sense, or ask someone who has some.

The tone of this post is both unpleasant and unnecessary. Enough said.

feargale

According to WikipediaThe East Midlands and West Midlands regions of England include Lincolnshire.with its coastline.

feargale

Now that a certain yob seems to have gone his way, would anybody else like to give us their tuppence worth on this? Thanks.

feargale

Now that a certain yob seems to have gone his way, would anybody else like to give us their tuppence worth on this? Thanks.

FintanMcluskey

The actual centre point of Ireland is debated to be the monument at Kilkenny West near Glasson or a few miles west as the crow flies at the Hudson Bay.

So that’s both Westmeath and Roscommon claiming the centre point.

Westmeath and Longford are 2 certainties to be referred to as midlands, add Roscommon and Offaly to those

Kildare and Meath are eastern counties IMO

corks finest

feargale wrote: »

Well, what constitutes the Midlands? Do they consist of a number of counties, or are parts of some counties included, while other parts of the same counties are not?
The ancient kingdom of Mídhe, or province of Meath, comprised the modern counties of Meath and Westmeath, as well as bits of other counties. Mîdhe was the basis for the geographical boundaries of the Diocese of Meath and ultimately the medieval County of Meath. In 1543 the County of Meath was subdivided into Westmeath and Meath ( formerly and more properly called East Meath.) So I'm sure we can all agree that all of Meath and Westmeath are included, even though Meath is not an inland county. Do the Midlands go beyond that? Certainly Offaly and Laois are included in the minds of most people. True, a sizeable part of Offaly is in the Diocese of Meath. But Laois?
Kildare? It's a separate diocese and historically was not part of Mídhe, but rather of Laighen. A person living in the Bog of Allen would probably consider themselves a Midlander, but what of Athy for instance? In fact I believe that Athy was an exclave of County Dublin until the 19th century.
Longford? It constituted, with Cavan and Leitrim the Kingdom of Breiffne. Longford was part of Connacht until 1608 and was transferred to Leinster for purely military reasons.
Roscommon? It's further from the sea than some of the aforementioned counties, and was included in the Health Board's Midland Region as well as the Midland Court Circuit.
Carlow? Probably not, but don't the Scallion Eaters have a distinctly Midland accent?
Cavan? Doesn't the South Cavan accent have more than a trace of the Midlands? In the 1920s or 1930s there was a zany move on the part of some GAA people to set up a fifth province called Meath including, I think, Meath, Louth, Westmeath, Longford and Cavan.
I have always associated the Midands with three writers, Oliver Goldsmith, Francis Ledwidge and Padraic Colum. But were Goldsmith or Colum even born in the Midlands?

Know it might sound awful but to me the Midlands would be awful to be stuck there especially westmeath , Longford, etc etc, on a personal level I need to be within striking distance of the sea, all I hear of Longford etc etc are people feuding, Laois and Carlow are more places I wouldn't stay a night in, in short Midlands to me is a no no not even for a night

Granadino

feargale wrote: »

When I was kid I heard people talk of a certain political party as deriving its core support from " big farmers in the Midlands." What county does that bring to mind if not Meath? Certainly not Offaly.

Maybe they meant the "midlands" of Leinster, as anything past Leinster was possibly like venturing to the depths of the Amazon for them....

JupiterKid

Counties Longford, Westmeath, Offaly and Laois form the core of the Midlands. All of these counties are pure Midlands.

Then the fringes - South Roscommon, parts of East Galway and North Tipp around the river Shannon, Southern third of Leitrim, parts of south county Cavan can all be condsidered Midlands also.

I've only ever considered Laois, Offaly, Westmeath and Longford as the midlands.

Never got into the minutiae of breaking up counties.