Many young farmers to miss out on 60% farm investment grant

ihatewinter

From Agriland Website. It seems young farmers will miss out on the 60% grant if they have a joint herd number with parent. It needs to be a partnership or company. Who the **** comes up with this ****. It does not affect me but plenty I need personally in the locality. The whole department should be shot. All suffering from stupidity and too long sitting inside to know what's really going on outside the concrete blocks of Portlaoise.


Many young farmers may miss out the new TAMS II 60% on-farm investment grant which was announced by the Minister for Agriculture, Simon Coveney as part of a suite of Rural Development measures last year.

The new scheme will offer a specific grant rate of 60% for young farmers compared to the standard grant rate of 40% which will be generally available under other on-farm investment schemes.

However, the criteria for entry into the scheme looks set to rule out many young farmers who will apply under a joint herd number.

The Department of Agriculture has confirmed to Agriland that it is not expected that a young farmer, operating under a joint herd number with a parent, could qualify for the increased rate of aid.

It says the young farmer needs to be set up in his or her own right as the head of the farming operation in question.

A formal partnership arrangement with a parent would be acceptable, or establishment of a company provided that the young farmer can confirm that he/she exercises effective and long term control over the legal person in terms of decisions related to management, benefits and financial risks, it says.

The specific areas of investment available to young farmers under the grant will include animal housing, slurry storage, dairy equipment, specialised slurry spreading equipment, animal welfare and farm safety, and specialised pig and poultry investments, as well as capital investments for organic farmers.

In addition, young farmers will be able to avail of grant-aid for construction of new dairy buildings.

The Department did confirm that European Commission approval will be required before any Scheme conditions including eligibility criteria are finalised

It says that the approval from the Commission will issue shortly and it will then be in a position to finalise questions of eligibility and all other terms and conditions.

Greengrass1

It's not finalised yet so we can't be sure what to happen
sit tight for now

Cow Porter

Greengrass1 wrote: »

It's not finalised yet so we can't be sure what to happen
sit tight for now

Especially when the department young farmer declaration form has a box to tick for joint herd numbers, see young farmers section on dept website

Toplink

It appears entering a 'Partnership' with your parents is one way around this.

Anyone here have any experiences of partnerships? Whats are the side effects of entering a partnership?

Deepsouthwest

Toplink wrote: »

It appears entering a 'Partnership' with your parents is one way around this.

Anyone here have any experiences of partnerships? Whats are the side effects of entering a partnership?

Am currently in a partnership with another farmer (about to end as quotas are going) and was formerly in a parent partnership which ironically stopped me from getting the young farmer top up for buildings I did back a few urs ago. No other complaints about partnerships, needed them to access quota

LivInt20

New Farm Partnership Register on the way from the Department.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmingsectors/newfarmpartnershipregister/

You can set up the profit sharing at any % you want.

Will have to file a Form 1 firms with Revenue each year.

Part of new RDP so there will be incentives to forming partnerships.

Will apply to cattle and sheep farmers as well as dairy.

larrymiller

LivInt20 wrote: »

New Farm Partnership Register on the way from the Department.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmingsectors/newfarmpartnershipregister/

You can set up the profit sharing at any % you want.

Will have to file a Form 1 firms with Revenue each year.

Part of new RDP so there will be incentives to forming partnerships.

Will apply to cattle and sheep farmers as well as dairy.

Is this different to the joint herd number?

LivInt20

larrymiller wrote: »

Is this different to the joint herd number?

Yes

There is a difference between joint herd numbers and partnerships.

This applies to the National Reserve Scheme also and has various tax implications regarding income tax and the transfer of Single Farm Payment.

merryberry

OP why should an established farmer i.e. the parent in the joint herd number benefit from the increased grant rate that is aimed at young farmers?

rangler1

merryberry wrote: »

OP why should an established farmer i.e. the parent in the joint herd number benefit from the increased grant rate that is aimed at young farmers?

+1
Funding will be limited, a concession like the above will only open the floodgates for applications from well set up farmers.
The aim should be to prioritise young farmers doing it on their own. 40% grant is ample for established farmer.

freedominacup

merryberry wrote: »

OP why should an established farmer i.e. the parent in the joint herd number benefit from the increased grant rate that is aimed at young farmers?

This is the nub of the question. Doag wants to see younger farmers in charge and see this as a carrot to encourage sooner transfers of control. If it's going to be done anyway why delay. Plus with the fragmented nature of many farms there should be little difficulty in ensuring older generation has some security by leaving outfarms in their control.

ihatewinter

merryberry wrote: »

OP why should an established farmer i.e. the parent in the joint herd number benefit from the increased grant rate that is aimed at young farmers?

Around here a lot of farms are on marginal land with no sheds. A lot are farming with parents and will inevitably take over the farm in the future. Many of the older generation have low stocking rate but in the past 18 months, many sons have started to farm and increase stocking rates and have started to use and utilise hills and commonages with increased numbers and output. So why should they be penalised.

freedominacup

ihatewinter wrote: »

Around here a lot of farms are on marginal land with no sheds. A lot are farming with parents and will inevitably take over the farm in the future. Many of the older generation have low stocking rate but in the past 18 months, many sons have started to farm and increase stocking rates and have started to use and utilise hills and commonages with increased numbers and output. So why should they be penalised.

They aren't being penalised. If you extend that argument out surely I should be able to get the increased rate on the basis that I have three sons and the eldest is thinking of doing ag science for his leaving cert. If they are going to be running the show shortly why not just fast forward the transfer by a couple of years?

LivInt20

ihatewinter wrote: »

From Agriland Website. It seems young farmers will miss out on the 60% grant if they have a joint herd number with parent. It needs to be a partnership or company. Who the **** comes up with this ****. It does not affect me but plenty I need personally in the locality. The whole department should be shot. All suffering from stupidity and too long sitting inside to know what's really going on outside the concrete blocks of Portlaoise.


Many young farmers may miss out the new TAMS II 60% on-farm investment grant which was announced by the Minister for Agriculture, Simon Coveney as part of a suite of Rural Development measures last year.

The new scheme will offer a specific grant rate of 60% for young farmers compared to the standard grant rate of 40% which will be generally available under other on-farm investment schemes.

However, the criteria for entry into the scheme looks set to rule out many young farmers who will apply under a joint herd number.

The Department of Agriculture has confirmed to Agriland that it is not expected that a young farmer, operating under a joint herd number with a parent, could qualify for the increased rate of aid.

It says the young farmer needs to be set up in his or her own right as the head of the farming operation in question.

A formal partnership arrangement with a parent would be acceptable, or establishment of a company provided that the young farmer can confirm that he/she exercises effective and long term control over the legal person in terms of decisions related to management, benefits and financial risks, it says.

The specific areas of investment available to young farmers under the grant will include animal housing, slurry storage, dairy equipment, specialised slurry spreading equipment, animal welfare and farm safety, and specialised pig and poultry investments, as well as capital investments for organic farmers.

In addition, young farmers will be able to avail of grant-aid for construction of new dairy buildings.

The Department did confirm that European Commission approval will be required before any Scheme conditions including eligibility criteria are finalised

It says that the approval from the Commission will issue shortly and it will then be in a position to finalise questions of eligibility and all other terms and conditions.

Agriland has a lot to answer for.

Always has a sensationalist headline, but actually no story in the article.

This line sums up the article: It says the young farmer needs to be set up in his or her own right as the head of the farming operation in question.


For any younger farmer applying to National Reserve at present this is also the case.

merryberry

ihatewinter wrote: »

Around here a lot of farms are on marginal land with no sheds. A lot are farming with parents and will inevitably take over the farm in the future. Many of the older generation have low stocking rate but in the past 18 months, many sons have started to farm and increase stocking rates and have started to use and utilise hills and commonages with increased numbers and output. So why should they be penalised.

I think these guys penalised themselves by choosing to enter farming when the early detail was available on the new CAP regarding some of the schemes. For example it was widely published that the young farmer top up would be applied from the date of commencement of farming therefore some these guys cannot benefit from the full 5 years of this scheme.

To answer ur other question i still believe that the departments approach to this is to eliminate any possible unfair advantage that joint herd number applications create under TAMS. Are u sayin that it is fair for established farmers to cobenefit from a scheme that is not intended for them. An alternative exists for ur neighbours and that is the operation of a farm partnership so how can u claim that ur neighbours are being penalised.

solerina

ihatewinter wrote: »

Around here a lot of farms are on marginal land with no sheds. A lot are farming with parents and will inevitably take over the farm in the future. Many of the older generation have low stocking rate but in the past 18 months, many sons have started to farm and increase stocking rates and have started to use and utilise hills and commonages with increased numbers and output. So why should they be penalised.

They shouldn't be in many cases its the parents at fault, they need to move over and let the younger generation take their chance...we have a lot of lads around her drawing the pension who still wont give their kids a chance to run the farm alone....the parents must be to blame too in this situation !!

rangler1

Also it's only right that only young farmers showing commitment should get the benefit of the 60% grant

yellow50HX

Anyone got a link to the TAMS schemes? Would like to see the critirea they have for investments.

Would be interested in adding a shed for the younger stock so any help would be very helpful.

MayoAreMagic

Surely it is obvious as to why the young farmer needs sole ownership? Their fathers would just stick them down on paper to get the money and continue running the show. You would have lads with no interest in farming and rarely at home, being named simply to get the higher rate. Surely they have to show some sort of commitment to doing what they are claiming they are doing?

Corkfarmer

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Surely it is obvious as to why the young farmer needs sole ownership? Their fathers would just stick them down on paper to get the money and continue running the show. You would have lads with no interest in farming and rarely at home, being named simply to get the higher rate. Surely they have to show some sort of commitment to doing what they are claiming they are doing?

I would argue that having done the green cert and signing a declaration form stating you have significant control over the enterprise same as for the young farmer scheme would surely be good enough for this aswel. I am in this situation and I am genuinely in control of the operation however I don't see the need to have to get my own herdnumber or transfer the land just yet.

ganmo

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Surely it is obvious as to why the young farmer needs sole ownership? Their fathers would just stick them down on paper to get the money and continue running the show. You would have lads with no interest in farming and rarely at home, being named simply to get the higher rate. Surely they have to show some sort of commitment to doing what they are claiming they are doing?

My dad came home one eve a month ago asking me to look up this scheme, found the t&cs...first thing I told him was that I'd have to in control...made him think twice as he's not the type of person to hand over control of anything esp the TV remote

hurling_lad

LivInt20 wrote: »

Agriland has a lot to answer for.

Always has a sensationalist headline, but actually no story in the article.

This line sums up the article: It says the young farmer needs to be set up in his or her own right as the head of the farming operation in question.


For any younger farmer applying to National Reserve at present this is also the case.

I was looking into this and found an Agriland article from last April that mentioned Farm Partnerships in the context of young farmer top-ups so it shouldn't really be news to anyone, least of all Agriland.

sh1tstirrer

Can older farmers get the 40% grant?

MayoAreMagic

Corkfarmer wrote: »

I would argue that having done the green cert and signing a declaration form stating you have significant control over the enterprise same as for the young farmer scheme would surely be good enough for this aswel. I am in this situation and I am genuinely in control of the operation however I don't see the need to have to get my own herdnumber or transfer the land just yet.

Well I wouldn't to be honest with you. If you want to be getting higher rates and better entitlements than the next guy then you need to be farming yourself officially. The reward is pretty decent so I don't think people should be able to wrangle their way in. Either you are the boss or you aren't.

To be honest, I know lads doing that green cert and getting into these schemes who have never farmed in their lives nor shown an interest in it. They have dusted down an old share of commonage that hasn't been used in donkeys years and bought a few sheep, purely to get the money.
Then I know of others who have a big interest, have been running the farm for years, have everything signed over, yet are not eligible because they had the ability to get a job off the farm that pays decent money, yet are still running it and doing the work on it.

But the schemes say the first guy is the priority. He is the one they want at the coalface of farming in the future, yet to me the second guy is the one who we need to keep involved. He is the guy who could potentially get involved at a higher level and maybe make a real difference, not just collect a cheque.
Now that I would describe as an issue with system. Not having enough say to have the farm put in your name - not so much.