if an american is convicted of a crime in Ireland

SpannerMonkey · 08-03-2015 12:44pm #1

having a debate at the moment and am looking to see if anyone here could help settle it .

if an american (US Citizen) is convicted of a crime (not a traffic offence ) while in Ireland and a large fine is imposed by a court , could they just ignore paying it and leave the country without fear or any trouble ?

coylemj · 08-03-2015 2:30pm

If they don't have a fixed address in this country, the judge can order that the fine be paid 'fortwith' in which case it's cash or Mountjoy!

Mr. Incognito · 08-03-2015 3:27pm

Yes they could leave. They are not going to be extradicted over a civil fine.

FreudianSlippers · 09-03-2015 10:11am

If the state was so inclined, the fine could be registered in the US. I can't remember the process exactly, but it can be done.

Fred Swanson · 09-03-2015 4:53pm

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pedroeibar1 · 09-03-2015 10:38pm

A few years ago a friend was visiting from Oz, breathalized about 10 pm, slightly over the limit, arrested, kept in the Garda station overnight, driven to court following morning (50 miles away) fined €250 (maybe more) and banned for 12 mths.; on payment he was released to make his own way. His car was at another Garda station, 20+ miles in the other direction from place of arrest, I guess just to pi$$ him off, and he was told not to drive for the remainder of his holidays here . His main fear initially was that AGS would notify the Oz authorities.

jimmycrackcorm · 12-03-2015 1:33pm

pedroeibar1 wrote:

His car was at another Garda station, 20+ miles in the other direction from place of arrest, I guess just to pi$$ him off, and he was told not to drive for the remainder of his holidays here . His main fear initially was that AGS would notify the Oz authorities.

It wasn't to piss him off Gardai aren't a taxi service. He was told not to drive because he got a twelve month ban but would be gone after his holiday.

Lmklad · 13-03-2015 12:15am

If a US citizen is arrested Gardai are obliged to contact his embassy so US authorities will be aware. It really depends on the crime committed whether the State will go after him.

Fred Swanson · 13-03-2015 12:17am

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gustafo · 13-03-2015 2:59am

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

A few years ago a friend was visiting from Oz, breathalized about 10 pm, slightly over the limit, arrested, kept in the Garda station overnight, driven to court following morning (50 miles away) fined €250 (maybe more) and banned for 12 mths.; on payment he was released to make his own way. His car was at another Garda station, 20+ miles in the other direction from place of arrest, I guess just to pi$$ him off, and he was told not to drive for the remainder of his holidays here . His main fear initially was that AGS would notify the Oz authorities.

that must be a 1st, never in ireland have i heard of anybody been brought to court next day for a drink driving charge??

bull i don't believe it.

Pro Hoc Vice · 13-03-2015 7:43am

gustafo wrote: »

that must be a 1st, never in ireland have i heard of anybody been brought to court next day for a drink driving charge??

bull i don't believe it.

You are incorrect. If a person is refused bail (as not a resident say) then they must be brought to next sitting of DC. If that happens the person may find its better to plead in that occasion and have the matter disposed. Just because you have never seen it does not mean it's bull I am aware of a DD driving arrest early on a Monday morning, court on that same day, remanded in custody (with consent to bail), back the Tuesday, pleaded guilty.

pedroeibar1 · 13-03-2015 11:06am

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It wasn't to piss him off Gardai aren't a taxi service. He was told not to drive because he got a twelve month ban but would be gone after his holiday.

Very erudite:rolleyes:
I never said he wanted a garda “taxi”. HIs car could have been left in the lay-by, or brought to where he was held. Instead it was brought in the opposite direction, either (a) to cause him maximum inconvenience or (b) because a garda wanted transport to that station.

What caused the breathalyser was him putting on the wipers instead of the indicator when pulling in – he had just hired the car and was used to the ‘stalk’ being on the other side of the wheel. The hire co took the car back but charged him for a full week and refunded the other weeks.

While there is no reciprocity of info with Australia, technically he should have declared his ban to his insurers there, as part of full disclosure.

Fred Swanson · 13-03-2015 2:00pm

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Pro Hoc Vice · 13-03-2015 2:54pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

For a minor offence like DD with a ban in Ireland for a non resident the best option is often to plead. But if the person not granted bail in DC it is of course open to get get bail in higher court. Often bail is granted but the cash lodgement and or conditions make impossible. But in a dd breath case no reason why the case can not be heard very quickly. Also nothing stoping a plea and then lodging appeal but expect that the recogs set to be equal or greater to bail.

Manach · 14-03-2015 3:14pm

Offhand, looking at it from an international law view point, it might depend if the other country (US) in this case has a bilateral treaty with Ireland on this matter and that the Irish procedures were fairly followed. This is from a cursory reading of Dixon on Int'n law and of course Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforcement_of_foreign_judgments)

Pro Hoc Vice · 14-03-2015 5:52pm

Manach wrote: »

Offhand, looking at it from an international law view point, it might depend if the other country (US) in this case has a bilateral treaty with Ireland on this matter and that the Irish procedures were fairly followed. This is from a cursory reading of Dixon on Int'n law and of course Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforcement_of_foreign_judgments)

I don't see the relevance to criminal law.

source · 14-03-2015 6:57pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

There is no obligation on the Gardaí to contact the embassy unless the arrested person asks.

If I recall correctly, that is true for all but Americans, the US embassy has to be informed if a US citizen is arrested here.

I will freely admit it's been a whole since I've even had to think about that, but I'm fairly sure it's correct.

bucketybuck · 14-03-2015 7:02pm

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

What caused the breathalyser was him putting on the wipers instead of the indicator when pulling in

I would suggest it was the drinking and driving that caused the breathalyzer.

Manach · 14-03-2015 7:09pm

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

I don't see the relevance to criminal law.

US citizen leaving Ireland. That would merge into the realm of Int'n law which while made up of a hodgepodge of treaties/customs can be viewed through the prism of theorists such as Posner. Qui bono. If there is a slew of Irish/US citizens avoiding low level crime by switching jurisdictions then Posner's application of game theory in In'tl law suggests such convictions would be likely to be enforced.

14-03-2015 7:50pm

Manach wrote: »

US citizen leaving Ireland. That would merge into the realm of Int'n law which while made up of a hodgepodge of treaties/customs can be viewed through the prism of theorists such as Posner. Qui bono. If there is a slew of Irish/US citizens avoiding low level crime by switching jurisdictions then Posner's application of game theory in In'tl law suggests such convictions would be likely to be enforced.

Yes, its just that the link you gave to wiki deals with the enforcement of judgments rather than the recognition of convictions. Two completely separate things.

Pro Hoc Vice · 14-03-2015 9:39pm

Manach wrote: »

US citizen leaving Ireland. That would merge into the realm of Int'n law which while made up of a hodgepodge of treaties/customs can be viewed through the prism of theorists such as Posner. Qui bono. If there is a slew of Irish/US citizens avoiding low level crime by switching jurisdictions then Posner's application of game theory in In'tl law suggests such convictions would be likely to be enforced.

What? They can only leave if they have served any time. The paying of a fine being do small will not be enforced and any disqualification can not be imposed in the USA.

Manach · 15-03-2015 8:13pm

@234 & PVC.
The link does link to and mentioned the issue of comity under international law and does address the OP's question of "could they just ignore paying it and leave the country without fear or any trouble ?" by mentioning the US position as per "american is convicted" on these matters. Thus a case of that is what.

Pro Hoc Vice · 15-03-2015 8:38pm

Manach wrote: »

@234 & PVC.
The link does link to and mentioned the issue of comity under international law and does address the OP's question of "could they just ignore paying it and leave the country without fear or any trouble ?" by mentioning the US position as per "american is convicted" on these matters. Thus a case of that is what.

The page you linked deals with civil judgements a fine is a criminal sanction and NOT a civil judgement. In Ireland a fine that is not paid leads to a committal to prison in default. Extradition will not be used in such a case. Also linking to Wikipedia is about as useful as a condom in a nunnery.

if an american is convicted of a crime in Ireland

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