PC World, Camera out of Warranty.

zero19

Hi folks I bought a camera from PC World which developed a fault through no damage or anything on my behalf on Wednesday. It's 14 months old so out of warranty by 2 months.

I went to the store today to see what could be done but they flatly refused any refund, repair or replacement directing me to contact the manufacturer. I mentioned that the contract was with them but the manager was having none of it.

I guess my next step is to write to head office so I donwloaded a template letter from consumerhelp.ie and I have the address but I've no idea who the letter should be addressed to?

Also I researched the issue and it's apparently a common fault with the camera model, as such I wouldn't want another one am I entitled to a refund or do I have to take a replacement?

Thanks in advance.

Sam Mac

Not surprised to hear you are having this issue with this company.

PC World/Currys have a well-known habit of ignoring Irish consumer law. Quote them your rights, print them out even, and if you still get no joy, lodge a claim with the Small Claims Court straight away.

http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument

You are entitled to one of the three R's - Repair, replacement or refund. You can most likely expect it to be sent off for repair.

gerrybbadd

Genuine question, and i'm not pulling the pi$$, but if the item is out of Warranty, why do PC World or Currys have to do anything?

Again, genuinely interested, i'm not messing or that

WildCardDoW

Under Irish consumer law a product is expected to last a reasonable amount of time up to a maximum of five years (I'm sure someone else will improve / correct this).

Sam Mac

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Genuine question, and i'm not pulling the pi$$, but if the item is out of Warranty, why do PC World or Currys have to do anything?

Again, genuinely interested, i'm not messing or that

Because the item was bought from them. The customer has a contract with them and they are fully entitled to expect the shop to deal with the issue.

Also, a standard one year manufacturers warranty is just that - a standard warranty. Irish consumer law allows you two years (and in some cases up to six years) to claim against the warranty.

A camera can be reasonably expected to last more than just over a year.

zero19

Thanks for the replies, it will be my last time dealing with PC world.

Geuze

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Genuine question, and i'm not pulling the pi$$, but if the item is out of Warranty, why do PC World or Currys have to do anything?

Again, genuinely interested, i'm not messing or that

Warranties are an added extra on top of Irish law.

If the goods are faulty, then your rights are as follows:

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/faulty-goods

gerrybbadd

Sam Mac wrote: »

Because the item was bought from them. The customer has a contract with them and they are fully entitled to expect the shop to deal with the issue.

Also, a standard one year manufacturers warranty is just that - a standard warranty. Irish consumer law allows you two years (and in some cases up to six years) to claim against the warranty.

A camera can be reasonably expected to last more than just over a year.

Thank you. I wish I knew this earlier.

So in effect, the "Extended Warranty" that's pushed on you every single time you buy something in these stores is a sham?

P. Breathnach

gerrybbadd wrote: »

...
So in effect, the "Extended Warranty" that's pushed on you every single time you buy something in these stores is a sham?

That's largely true.

dudara

Some inaccuracies in this thread.

You are entitled to expect a product to last a reasonable lifetime, assuming normal usage. There is no defined period, but you do have up to 6 years to claim redress.

Warranties have nothing to do with consumer rights.

They can offer services additional to remedies available under consumer law, but they do not replace or undermine your rights. Extended warranties can be worth it in some cases, but always read the T&Cs.

slimjimmc

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Thank you. I wish I knew this earlier.

So in effect, the "Extended Warranty" that's pushed on you every single time you buy something in these stores is a sham?

Not necessarily, it's very expensive but the extended warranty can cover events which are not covered by consumer law such as accidental damage or theft. In many cases it's not worth it since the item would likely have lost significant value by the time you need to claim, in other cases it can be worthwhile. It's up to you to carefully to assess whether or not you feel it worthwhile.

Note OP you are entitled to a repair or a replacement first. If neither are possible or cannot be provided without significant inconvenience to you then you are entitled to a refund.

skinny90

zero19 wrote: »

Hi folks I bought a camera from PC World which developed a fault through no damage or anything on my behalf on Wednesday. It's 14 months old so out of warranty by 2 months.

I went to the store today to see what could be done but they flatly refused any refund, repair or replacement directing me to contact the manufacturer. I mentioned that the contract was with them but the manager was having none of it.

I guess my next step is to write to head office so I donwloaded a template letter from consumerhelp.ie and I have the address but I've no idea who the letter should be addressed to?

Also I researched the issue and it's apparently a common fault with the camera model, as such I wouldn't want another one am I entitled to a refund or do I have to take a replacement?

Thanks in advance.

Matter of interest...what camera do you have and what is the fault?

Geuze

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Thank you. I wish I knew this earlier.

So in effect, the "Extended Warranty" that's pushed on you every single time you buy something in these stores is a sham?

Well, yes, as the law gives you rights.

Example: I buy a TV, it develops a fault after x years, not wear and tear, and not my fault.

Warranty is irrelevant.

Should the TV last x years?

If so, then it is the retailer's responsibilty to deal with the fault.

I presumed this was well known??

Geuze

Here is the original law, AFAIK:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/

ssmith6287

Can you prove that there's a fault and can you prove that you did not cause this? Consumer rights are very grey in that a product should last reasonable amount of time. but what's reasonable. If I buy an €80 phone, id expect to maybe squeeze a year, but someone else might expect 2 or 3. Same with a €300 laptop, again if your a techie you don't expect much but others will.

what is the fault with the camera, what model is it?

slimjimmc

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Can you prove that there's a fault and can you prove that you did not cause this? Consumer rights are very grey in that a product should last reasonable amount of time. but what's reasonable. If I buy an €80 phone, id expect to maybe squeeze a year, but someone else might expect 2 or 3. Same with a €300 laptop, again if your a techie you don't expect much but others will.

what is the fault with the camera, what model is it?

I think most people would expect an €80 phone to last a lot longer than a year, or even 3 for that matter. Same with a camera. I suspect most people who replace a phone/camera/laptop after a year or two do so for reasons of obsolescence or premature failure rather than it dying a natural death.

ssmith6287

This is whats wrong with peoples expectations. Were living in the past. technology is not designed to last, its designed to perform. Your old CRT TV which you had to save up for for a year would last 15 years because theres nothing to them. a €300 lcd is pumping out so much heat, and the cpu is working so hard that the life of the machine is much shorter. We used to pay €150 for a nokia 3210, a very basic functioning phone. You can now buy a sony xperia for 70€, how can you expect a machine with 20 times more tech at half the price to last that long. I'm sorry but no, an €80 phone is 3 year old technology, that tech has about another year of relevance, same with your cheap tablets, computers and cameras.

But never mind that, the OP hasnt said what kinda camera and what they believe the fault to be. Ive seen point and shoots coming back to me with sand caught in the lense, little dents on the lense. This is an example but its damage and PC World have no liability to look after this

Del2005

ssmith6287 wrote: »

This is whats wrong with peoples expectations. Were living in the past. technology is not designed to last, its designed to perform. Your old CRT TV which you had to save up for for a year would last 15 years because theres nothing to them. a €300 lcd is pumping out so much heat, and the cpu is working so hard that the life of the machine is much shorter. We used to pay €150 for a nokia 3210, a very basic functioning phone. You can now buy a sony xperia for 70€, how can you expect a machine with 20 times more tech at half the price to last that long. I'm sorry but no, an €80 phone is 3 year old technology, that tech has about another year of relevance, same with your cheap tablets, computers and cameras.

If the tech in the camera is 3 years old it shouldn't have know faults,which the OPs camera has.

Also the reason why the EU has implemented a mandatory 2 year guarantee on all products, which we are exempt from due to our consumer laws being stronger, was to make manufactures design items to last!

We also used to pay £500 to go the UK before Ryanair came in and showed that you could get their for €20, Moore's law is constantly bring down the price of ICs

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Can you prove that there's a fault and can you prove that you did not cause this? Consumer rights are very grey in that a product should last reasonable amount of time. but what's reasonable.

If the buyer and the vendor can't decide what a reasonable time is the courts will and they usually go with the buyer, but do reduce the value according to how long it's been owned.

ssmith6287 wrote: »

If I buy an €80 phone, id expect to maybe squeeze a year, but someone else might expect 2 or 3. Same with a €300 laptop, again if your a techie you don't expect much but others will.

Just because you don't want to use them doesn't meant that others can't. I've passed on a lot of my used items and even the cheapest ones I've have lasted a good few years with the ultimate device testers using and abusing them, children.

ssmith6287

I understand that but If I buy an 80€ camera, Im not going to expect to out live or perform the 12 month warranty the manufacturer offers. It shouldn't be taken as a customer values it at x amount, it should be what the average price is and how much was paid. So if the average price is 200€ and a reasonable lifespan is 2 to 3 years, then an €80 one should be less then half that.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ssmith6287 wrote: »

I understand that but If I buy an 80€ camera, Im not going to expect to out live or perform the 12 month warranty the manufacturer offers. It shouldn't be taken as a customer values it at x amount, it should be what the average price is and how much was paid. So if the average price is 200€ and a reasonable lifespan is 2 to 3 years, then an €80 one should be less then half that.

I wouldn't expect an €80 camera to out perform a more expensive one but I would expect much more than a year of operation from it. Cheaper, old spec, items should still meet longevity expectations. The price has absolutely nothing to do with expected life on any item. You pay for performance, picture quality, features etc and not for expected life.

Uncle Ben

Op still hasn't named the make and model. It could be a €3k nikon or a Polaroid instamatic.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Op still hasn't named the make and model. It could be a €3k nikon or a Polaroid instamatic.

True but both should work for more than 14 months.

Del2005

ssmith6287 wrote: »

I understand that but If I buy an 80€ camera, Im not going to expect to out live or perform the 12 month warranty the manufacturer offers. It shouldn't be taken as a customer values it at x amount, it should be what the average price is and how much was paid. So if the average price is 200€ and a reasonable lifespan is 2 to 3 years, then an €80 one should be less then half that.

How do you know that the components in the €200 camera are better than the €80 camera? By your logic my OnePlusOne should only last half as long as an iPhone6 as it costs half as much, yet it has much better specs and components.

You're a marketing departments dream consumer sucker.

ssmith6287

Nah I'm not but I can see the difference between an 80€ tablet and €150 tablet. and €150 tablet and a €300 tablet.

If price has nothing to do with longevity then why do people expect a 1000€ tv to last longer then a €200.

Listen I understand marketing and I especially understand IT. Peoples expectations don't match specs. I saw on here recently a guy wanted to spend €300 on a laptop for netflix, gaming and downloading. Im sorry but no, a €300 laptop has similar spec to a 6 or 7 year old model. way before things like netflix, 3d graphics etc. Same with a Camera. If I buy a cheap cheap point and click with low grade CPU and sensor. Id expect it to not have the mechanical strenght as one with higher spec. So constant turning on and off, drip charging, even the SD card slot spring id expect to be alot weaker.

Again the OP has not told what kind of camera it is, or what the fault is.

It could be a case of battery has stopped charging, or lens got dirt in the mechanism. this is not really fault of the customer but they will be liable because this happening is usually determined by how the consumer uses it

I don't believe a €1200 macbook must last longer and outperform a €700 laptop. because these are both good machines, or at least should be, with high end parts. but I would defo expect to get more out of my 700€ laptop then the €300, whether it be performance or longevity

Just for your own sake

I have a degree in computer science and have worked in IT, Product Design and IT Retail so my views are personal and im not brainwashed by marketeers

runawaybishop

ssmith6287 wrote: »

If I buy an €80 phone, id expect to maybe squeeze a year, ?

Ridiculous, 2 years minimum. Just because something is not expensive does not make it disposable.

ssmith6287

how can you put a timeframe of 2 years on it? If the average is a 2 year warranty then surely something with below average parts and below average build quality should have a below average lefe expectancy.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ssmith6287 wrote: »

how can you put a timeframe of 2 years on it? If the average is a 2 year warranty then surely something with below average parts and below average build quality should have a below average lefe expectancy.

Warranty is no indication of life expectancy. Do you expect a car with 2 years' warranty to only last 2 years?
I bought a washing machine with 1 year's warrenty and you can bet your bottom dollar I expect a lot more than a year from it.
Again, price is no indication of how long a product should be expected to last.

ssmith6287

No I don't expect it to die but I don't expect the place I bought it from to be still looking after it 2 years on.

runawaybishop

ssmith6287 wrote: »

how can you put a timeframe of 2 years on it? If the average is a 2 year warranty then surely something with below average parts and below average build quality should have a below average lefe expectancy.

2 years would be the minimum, you wont expect it to just drop dead even if the performance degrades.

foggy_lad

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Genuine question, and i'm not pulling the pi$$, but if the item is out of Warranty, why do PC World or Currys have to do anything?

Again, genuinely interested, i'm not messing or that

They must stand by what they sell, the customer has rights and the seller/retailer must provide after sales care and redress if required.

Sam Mac wrote: »

Because the item was bought from them. The customer has a contract with them and they are fully entitled to expect the shop to deal with the issue.

Also, a standard one year manufacturers warranty is just that - a standard warranty. Irish consumer law allows you two years (and in some cases up to six years) to claim against the warranty.

A camera can be reasonably expected to last more than just over a year.

European law is two years but Ireland rejected this as our Sale of Goods Act offers up to 6 years protection.

ssmith6287 wrote: »

No I don't expect it to die but I don't expect the place I bought it from to be still looking after it 2 years on.

If the retailer doesn't want to deal with the problems they shouldn't sell the product!