How much do you respect the argument"but it's my culture"?

steddyeddy

A friend of mine is getting married in what is more or less an arranged marriage. She doesn't want to marry this guy and is very unhappy as a result. She says this is her culture and I said it's BS her making herself unhappy because of culture. She was really angry the way I disrespected her culture but feck it I think it is BS to put your culture before happiness.

Do we have to respect a person's culture if that culture is degrading towards people e.g. women, gay people or animals (bloodsports). I don't think"it's my culture" cuts it as an argument.

conorhal

steddyeddy wrote: »

A friend of mine is getting married in what is more or less an arranged marriage. She doesn't want to marry this guy and is very unhappy as a result. She says this is her culture and I said it's BS her making herself unhappy because of culture. She was really angry the way I disrespected her culture but feck it I think it is BS to put your culture before happiness.

Do we have to respect a person's culture if that culture is degrading towards people e.g. women, gay people or animals (bloodsports). I don't think"it's my culture" cuts it as an argument.

Well it would seem to me that her 'culture' disrespects her, so if she wants to be angry about anything.....

Duke O Smiley

Depends. In the case of the "Ireland is not friendly enough to Muslim tourists" thread or the likes, I'd say stfu and go home then.

But in the case of your friend here, I'd keep my mouth shut and carry on.

steddyeddy

conorhal wrote: »

Well it would seem to me that her 'culture' disrespects her, so if she wants to be angry about anything.....

That's it really. Her culture treats her as a second class citizen. That's BS IMHO.

Kermit.de.frog

Am I the only one who thought this was going to be about travellers?

Mr. Remote Control

I think to agree with what you said to her would have been way too big of a thing for her to do, it is everything she knows after all. It's not her fault though. It is quite sad. Arranged marriages that is, I think it's grand if the two people love each other of course, but what are the chances of that? Very f***ing slim I'd say.

kylith

I'd say she's just projecting her own unhappiness with her culture onto you because it's the only outlet she has. She can hardly go tell her parents she's unhappy and have them go "Oh, sorry! We'll cancel this and you can choose your own husband".

I really don't know how you could make it better, so to speak. Try using nonconfrontational language when she talks to you about it and encourage her to make up her own mind while letting her know you will be there to support her if needed. That's really all you can do.

This kind of thing is why tradition is bullsht, if you don't want to do something don't do it, and anyone who argues that it's 'tradition' should be invited to go jump in a lake.

BoJack Horseman

If you don't like your culture, change it.

Generic Dreadhead

Since when did we all have to respect everyone and their cultures? Did I miss the memo?

nelly17

To be fair The Irish have had their hands tied by the church culture for a long time, something we're only starting to emerge from in the last 20 years, so for us its probably easier to pass judgment on people and their culture. But it was'nt that long ago that we had a fairly opressive culture

Custardpi

Would your friend be happier marrying you? Would her parents go for it? Some cultures regard it as shameful for a woman to be single beyond a certain age but obviously she doesn't seem happy with her parent's choice. Why not step up to the plate & provide a somewhat better alternative?

steddyeddy

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

Depends. In the case of the "Ireland is not friendly enough to Muslim tourists" thread or the likes, I'd say stfu and go home then.

But in the case of your friend here, I'd keep my mouth shut and carry on.

She's my friend. She tells me she's unhappy and why and I say I think she's ridiculous to go ahead with it.

steddyeddy

Custardpi wrote: »

Would your friend be happier marrying you? Would her parents go for it? Some cultures regard it as shameful for a woman to be single beyond a certain age but obviously she doesn't seem happy with her parent's choice. Why not step up to the plate & provide a somewhat better alternative?

She's not my type nor am I hers.

Banjo String

I only respect it when George tells me it, and when he's talking about his club

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw

Custardpi

steddyeddy wrote: »

She's not my type nor am I hers.

Doesn't sound like the current fiancé is either but she's still set to marry him, isn't she?

eviltwin

steddyeddy wrote: »

She's my friend. She tells me she's unhappy and why and I say I think she's ridiculous to go ahead with it.

What will the repercussions be for her if she says no?

Lollipops23

Custardpi wrote: »

Would your friend be happier marrying you? Would her parents go for it? Some cultures regard it as shameful for a woman to be single beyond a certain age but obviously she doesn't seem happy with her parent's choice. Why not step up to the plate & provide a somewhat better alternative?

It shouldn't need to come to that.

OP I get why you're upset-seeing a friend so unhappy for totally bull**** reasons is hard.

I don't respect any culture that treats women like second class citizens. Does that rule out an awful lot of cultures? Unfortunately, yes.

MrWalsh

Whats the alternative for her if she refuses to go through with it?

steddyeddy

I

eviltwin wrote: »

What will the repercussions be for her if she says no?

I don't know but I do know a girl who had a child out of wedlock was disowned by the family in her village.

OldNotWIse

Depends. If they are trying to force their culture on others then they can f.uck right off*, but if they are only damaging themselves then I don't really care.

* for example, demanding that restaurants in Ireland only serve meat from an animal that's had it's throat slit and been left to die hanging upsside down while it bleeds out...to think of one off the top of my head

eviltwin

steddyeddy wrote: »

I

I don't know but I do know a girl who had a child out of wedlock was disowned by the family in her village.

So saying no might not be that easy for her. Maybe in her head the marriage is the lesser of two evils.

Wacker The Attacker

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's it really. Her culture treats her as a second class citizen. That's BS IMHO.

She's setting herself up for this as much as anyone else. Who else can she blame if she willingly participates?

shruikan2553

It's my culture along with tradition and just my opinion tend to be used instead of "just because". It's not neccessarly a bad thing (why do you go to a particular restaurant on your birthday?) but it can be used as a way to attempt to justify some horrbile things like child marriage.

As long as it isnt being used to force something on another its fine. The problems arise when people start using it as an excuse for others to do something they just dont like the idea of.

Like most things, if the thing is worthy of respect without having to hide behind culture, religion opinion etc then it is but it shouldnt be respected or tolerated just because someone doesnt want you to question it.

super_furry

My culture gives me the freedom to think your culture is wrong-headed and barbaric. Doesn't mean I always have to aggressively express those thoughts though.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Normally I;d say grow a pair and tell your culture to **** off - but trying saying that to someone who doesn't loves the Irish languge or Gaelic sports. It works both ways, ya see?

The thing is, thoguh, culture is far mroe than just a few customs. For this girl, it's her fmaily, friends, every thing she;s famliar with. She's looking at a lot of isolation and ill-will with her family, and there's a lot that goes with it.

Donkey Oaty

What does the groom think about all of this? Does he know how she feels, and if so is he willing to marry a reluctant bride?

Crooked Jack

"But it's are kulshur to shut down roads, city and town centres all day and march up and down your street with flegs denouncing popery while bandsmen play sectarian songs, smash windows and piss in your garden."

"Oh it's your culture, i hadnt realised, well by all means have at it then. Is the huge sectarian, racist bonfire beside the hospital necessary though?"

"KULSHUR!!!!!!"

"oh, indeed."

jjC123

I'd be interested to know what culture she hails from OP? I have some Hindu friends who's parent marriages were arranged but not 'forced' so to speak i.e they didn't HAVE to get married, it was just encouraged and they both liked each other so hey, why not?

Is your friends situation that she feels she has to go ahead with this to satisfy expectations or will there be serious repercussions within her family/community if she chooses not to marry?

Saipanne

A culture is just an idea. Ideas don't deserve automatic respect.

Potatoeman

She's not being forced and her future husband may not be thrilled either. Im guessing they are from a culture with strict class defination and marrying below your class is seen as bad for the family.

Ask your friend what they think of Irish dating culture and Im pretty sure they wont approve of our cultue either.

shruikan2553

jjC123 wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what culture she hails from OP? I have some Hindu friends who's parent marriages were arranged but not 'forced' so to speak i.e they didn't HAVE to get married, it was just encouraged and they both liked each other so hey, why not?

Is your friends situation that she feels she has to go ahead with this to satisfy expectations or will there be serious repercussions within her family/community if she chooses not to marry?

Theres a difference between being offered a choice and actually having a choice. Not saying thats the case here but it is possible she could say no and her family shuns her. Theres a choice but one option is made as unattractive as possible.

BoJack Horseman

Saipanne wrote: »

A culture is just an idea. Ideas don't deserve automatic respect.

Indeed.

"Culture" is a very artificial construct.

Habit multiplied by time.

MadDog76

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Normally I;d say grow a pair and tell your culture to **** off - but trying saying that to someone who doesn't loves the Irish languge or Gaelic sports. It works both ways, ya see?

The thing is, thoguh, culture is far mroe than just a few customs. For this girl, it's her fmaily, friends, every thing she;s famliar with. She's looking at a lot of isolation and ill-will with her family, and there's a lot that goes with it.

Not being allowed to voice your honest opinion regarding an arranged marriage for fear of being dis-owned by your family, exiled from your community and possibly even worse consequences ....... and GAA ......... good comparison :rolleyes:

Custardpi

The big question is going to be what does she do if she decides to go against her parent's wishes & gets disowned? Most of us rely upon to some extent & take for granted the benefits of having a range of family & other connections, even if just for emotional support. To be cut out of that can be a very scary prospect, particularly if one's family is close knit. Is there a ready made alternative available or will she effectively have to start from scratch? Could she continue to even live in the same locality she's currently in?

jjC123

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Theres a difference between being offered a choice and actually having a choice. Not saying thats the case here but it is possible she could say no and her family shuns her. Theres a choice but one option is made as unattractive as possible.

That is, of course, very true. Unfortunately, thats a decision she is just going to have to make. Being trapped by tradition is an old cliche - live unhappily with the approval of your community or live freely without it (making you, perhaps, even more unhappy than you would have been).

Its a sad story, but neither the first nor the last.

We are free to make our own decisions within the confines of the law and free to follow cultural traditions after that, no matter how moronic they may be(Jehovahs Witnesses and blood transfusions spring to mind).

SeanW

Cormac... wrote: »

Since when did we all have to respect everyone and their cultures? Did I miss the memo?

I think I can save the multi-culti left some time:

WAAYCIST!!

MadDog76

What annoys me is when you travel to certain countries/parts of the world you are expected to respect said country's culture/traditions but when they travel here to Ireland you're still expected to respect their culture/traditions even if/when it contradicts Irish Culture!!

oceanman

if its her culture its her business, shouldn't concern anyone only close family. anyway arranged marriages were once a common practice here in Ireland.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MadDog76 wrote: »

Not being allowed to voice your honest opinion regarding an arranged marriage for fear of being dis-owned by your family, exiled from your community and possibly even worse consequences ....... and GAA ......... good comparison :rolleyes:

Well done on missing the point.

The question was "How much do you respect the argument "it's my culture?". My point is: it depends sometimes on who's culture you're talking about. If you don't like something, but feel compelled to do it anyway, it's not your culture and you should say so - regardless of whether it's marryign someone you don;t like, speaking Irish, morris dancing, praying five times a day or whatever.

RWCNT

steddyeddy wrote: »

I said it's BS her making herself unhappy because of culture. She was really angry the way I disrespected her culture but feck it I think it is BS to put your culture before happiness.

You were obviously only speaking out of concern and empathising with her sadness at the situation but I can understand why she might get angry at you. Happens in all sorts of discussions. I'll piss and moan about my Ma and what a wagon she is but if someone does the same I'll be in their face telling them not to disrespect my Ma.

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

Depends. In the case of the "Ireland is not friendly enough to Muslim tourists" thread or the likes, I'd say stfu and go home then.

A thread you clearly didn't read anyway.

Cuban Pete

SeanW wrote: »

I think I can save the multi-culti left some time:

What an insightful, original post.

Foxhound38

Plenty, boss. It's me culture boss :pac:

The first time I saw anyone actually using the "but it's my culture" argument was some guy writing an article in the irish times in defence of FGM and how he was going to put his daughters through it and how dare anyone say otherwise because it's my culture.

So since then, no, I don't respect that argument one iota

Sheepy99

steddyeddy wrote: »

A friend of mine is getting married in what is more or less an arranged marriage. She doesn't want to marry this guy and is very unhappy as a result. She says this is her culture and I said it's BS her making herself unhappy because of culture. She was really angry the way I disrespected her culture but feck it I think it is BS to put your culture before happiness.

Do we have to respect a person's culture if that culture is degrading towards people e.g. women, gay people or animals (bloodsports). I don't think"it's my culture" cuts it as an argument.

If she's in her own country, not much you can do.

If it's here in Ireland, i'd tell her cop the **** on, it's 2015, use the opportunity you have to have a (half) decent life while you still have the chance. Make sure to include plenty of curse words

Sheepy99

nelly17 wrote: »

To be fair The Irish have had their hands tied by the church culture for a long time, something we're only starting to emerge from in the last 20 years, so for us its probably easier to pass judgment on people and their culture. But it was'nt that long ago that we had a fairly opressive culture

Ah, the age old generic after hours response about Ireland when discussing a matter of faith/ethics.

Baby Jane

When it's something that's damaging to the person themselves or others, I don't respect it.

I also don't respect the bizarre argument that Irish people born after the magdalene laundries, some of them potential victims had they been alive, aren't in a position to judge.
Anyone who doesn't hurt others, the way the cultures they criticise do, is in a position to judge (including, actually even more so, those who are directly affected by it).

Wibbs

Baby Jane wrote: »

When it's something that's damaging to the person themselves or others, I don't respect it.

This. IMH not all cultures are close to "equal", some are clearly better for more individuals and individual proclivities within society.

wretcheddomain

steddyeddy wrote: »

A friend of mine is getting married in what is more or less an arranged marriage. She doesn't want to marry this guy and is very unhappy as a result. She says this is her culture and I said it's BS her making herself unhappy because of culture. She was really angry the way I disrespected her culture but feck it I think it is BS to put your culture before happiness.

Do we have to respect a person's culture if that culture is degrading towards people e.g. women, gay people or animals (bloodsports). I don't think"it's my culture" cuts it as an argument.

Isn't she subliminally disrespecting her own culture by doubting the rightfulness of marrying this guy? After all, if she really believed in the importance of her culture she wouldn't feel unhappy about the arranged marriage. It appears to me you were merely a post to beat to take out her own frustrations - which are, in effect, exactly the same as yours.

In any case, culture says nothing about whether something is right or wrong. Once upon a time the United States had a 'culture' of slavery and, alas, many of those 'unhappy' people reformed it from within - albeit in a slightly belligerent fashion. So no, we shouldn't respect culture in terms of moral values, as the two simply do not go hand in hand.

Culture is really the sedimentation of hundreds of years of baseless indoctrination to a given lifestyle. Given that culture is so ingrained in many people's identity - as it has in effect become their lifestyle - to attack the culture would become an attack on the lifestyle, so you can see why your friend would be offended in the way that she was.

However, it's her unhappiness that speaks volumes in this regard. Obviously the links between culture and lifestyle aren't so clear cut, but the pressure of others might act as a reinforcement to guilt-trip her into thinking she's making the right decision. Ultimately, it's an immoral aspect of her culture and the fact she recognises it is a good thing to say the least.

djflawless

Culture me bollix.
I'm racist/drunk but I'm Irish its my culture
I'm fat but I'm American its my culture
I lop peoples heads off but I'm Muslim its my culture

Get the f##k and don't be blaming your nationality/race/religion and make your own decisions!!