Sturdy wheelset for 110 kg abuse :-)

padyjoe

My Giant S-R2 rear wheel went beyond repair (must have hit a pothole, had only 3.3k kms). Would be strong enough if I get Mavic Open Pros? My LBS quoted me 180 yoyos. It must be a wheelset not only a rear wheel, is that right? Lad in there was telling me get it with an Ultegra hub but I suppose it comes with cheaper hub (or hence the price because it's Ultegra?). So what to get to be bombproof? Me and the bike around 110 kgs. I have a Sora groupset on the bike it's 9 speed, SRAM cassette . I'm looking for a wheel which will last longer and allow me countless hours of smiley biking. I don't want to spend a fortune on it, no cheapy-cr@ppy option either. Despite of total weight I average 27 km/h on a mixed terrain. My goal is to reach 90 kgs (12 kgs to go) so I really need something decent (not like the factory Giant: popped a spoke @2.2k kms, then knackered 1k kms later!) Thank a million!

quozl

http://www.rosebikes.com/article/road-rear-wheel-28700-c-xtreme-r-490105-5800/aid:716432

36 spoke wheel with a Shimano 105 hub for 90 euro delivered.

You didn't say if your bike is ten or eleven speed. If it's ten speed or less then you can get a rear wheel with a Tiagra hub from rose for about 65 delivered.

The main thing is high spoke count. 32 probably fine but I'd get 36.

padyjoe

Sorry it's 9 speed Sora.

ford2600

Direct from Rose a few weeks back when I asked them to build a wheel for a heavy cyclist 110kg
"The rims we can recommend for a heavy rider are the followings:

http://www.rosebikes.com/article/mavic-cxp-33-28-road-rim/aid:46530

http://www.rosebikes.com/article/xtreme-airline-4-28--road-rim/aid:47535#

Please send me an information which rim you prefer an which hub you want to have exactly.

Thank's in advance.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen/ Best regards

Philipp Vos"
___________________
ROSE Versand GmbH

I actually have the rim @quozl linked with a 105 hub and it has be bombproof but I weigh somewhat less at 84Kg

godtabh

For me Zondas cant be beaten.

Also a mavic open pro rim

padyjoe

I updated my OP. Thanks for the good men feeding me with infos! (And sorry for being present with 2 threads on the 1st page). I wonder would it matter which hub built in? I've Sora at the moment, any gain with upgraded hub? Cheers!

Raam

padyjoe wrote: »

It must be a wheelset not only a rear wheel, is that right?

You can buy single wheels, no need to buy both if you don't want to.

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

You can buy single wheels, no need to buy both if you don't want to.

But....but....they won't match!

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

But....but....they won't match!

There's not a day goes by that I don't wistfully think about those three odd wheels that I have.

quozl

As you're 9 speed you can use that Tiagra hub that I mentioned earlier. Get this - http://www.rosebikes.com/article/road-rear-wheel-28700-c-xtreme-airline-4tigra-4600/aid:716436
65 euro delivered. Remember to buy some 16mm wide rim tape for 3 euros (http://www.rosebikes.com/article/schwalbe-super-hp-rim-tape/aid:49359) if you don't already have some.

It has 36 spokes combined with a deep section rim. Those sort of deeper section rims are marketed as being more aerodynamic (somewhat dubious) but the real gain in this case is that they are significantly stronger than the narrower height rims.

That wheel will be ridiculously strong.

The Tiagra hub is great value for money. It's cheap but should last very well. It should easily out-live the rim.

It's not exactly a dream wheel but it's decent, great value for money and you're not going to get a significantly stronger wheel IMO.

[edit]It's even using one of the two rims that Rose recommend themselves for heavier riders according to ford2600's post. Both they recommend are the deeper aero section rims, presumably for the reason that I mentioned[/edit]

padyjoe

Mavic vs Xtreme. I wonder is there any difference between the two? Mavic is 40 euros dearer. 36 spokes. Tiagra or 105? I think better off getting a wheelset this way the front one will be fresh too (I don't want it packing in on me soon after the rear one). I didn't ask but am I right to say that the LBS's quote was only for the rear wheel?
Choice probably down to personal decision but have to decide quick as the bike out of order and the weather is too good to miss a spin!

Lumen

FWIW the Open Pro is not Mavic's strongest rim. The A719 is stronger and wider, although they don't recommend less than a 28mm tyre.

http://www.mavic.com/rims-road-triathlon-719

It's also available in 40 hole drillings.

quozl

padyjoe wrote: »

Mavic vs Xtreme.

Xtreme is Rose Bike's own-brand.

They re-badge products from other brand-names. I've no idea who makes their rims but their Freejack Xtreme hubs are by Miche for example.

In my opinion, the Xtreme rims are going to be better value than Mavic. Mavic is a bit over-priced IMO as it's an old well-known brand name which charges a premium. The Xtreme rims get great feedback online - I have one of them myself in a cheap Tiagra hubbed rear wheel that I built. Almost exactly the wheel I'm suggesting for you, except I built it myself because that's more fun

Here is a wheelset with Tiagra hubs and those Airline 4 rims. 99 euro and IIRC you can get a tenner off by signing up to their email newsletter so that'll cover delivery.

http://www.rosebikes.com/article/road-wheel-set-28700c-xtreme-airline-4--shimano-tiagra-4600/aid:202988

Tiagra or 105 doesn't really matter much. They're both great value basic hubs. Here's the same wheelset but with 105 hubs
http://www.rosebikes.com/article/road-wheel-set-28700c-xtreme-airline-4--shimano-105-5800/aid:162960

It's 125 euro.

105 has the advantage that it'll be 11 speed compatible. Beyond that, there's not much of a difference really. Neither of them is a fancy hub that you are likely to be rebuilding into a new wheel when the rim wears out - ie it'll be almost as cheap to buy a new wheel and throw this one out than to buy a new rim (and possibly spokes, though I'd re-use) and re-build it when the rim wears out.

Beyond the fact that these wheels will be stronger than factory bought ones like Zondas or even Aksiums, they are also much easier for a bike shop to repair if a spoke does break. Any bike shop should have a suitable replacement spoke, they won't all have suitable proprietary Mavic ones and the Mavic ones will be more expensive. Additionally if a spoke does fail on a 36 spoke wheel, the wheel will go only slightly out of true and should still be ridable. This gets increasingly less true as the spoke count drops. This affects how likely you are to be able to ride home on it.

Honestly. if you want bomb proof because you're a big rider who is hard on his wheels then I don't see you doing better than either the Tiagra or 105 version of these wheels.

If you want to spend more money then here's a pair with Freejack Hubs for 137e.
http://www.rosebikes.com/article/xtreme-road-wheel-set-28700c-airline-4--free-jack-shimano/aid:15102

From reading about it, these look identical to the Miche road hubs and even come with a Miche lock-ring, so I'd be pretty positive they are Miche. All the Xtreme stuff is rebadged other brands.

Fancier hubs, again very servicable. Again easy to replace spokes, and again you shouldn't have to as they're 36/36 spoke count.

Here they are with Ultegra hubs for 174e http://www.rosebikes.com/article/xtreme-road-wheel-set-28700c-airline-4--shimano-ultegra-6800/aid:716725

Really though, I don't see what benefit you'd be getting from the Ultegras. They're the sort of hub that when the rim dies you should be rebuilding them with another rim. If you're not doing that yourself then what's the point, and they're not really fancy enough to be paying someone else to be doing it for you. They're a bit lighter but that's not much of an issue if built into a 36 spoke wheel with a fairly heavy rim. Any weight saving will also be small compared to you and the bike's total weight. I'm 75kg and that's still very true for me

The reason that I keep recommending Rosebike wheels is that they are ridiculously good value. They are the biggest cycling chain in germany and have wheel building robots to mass produce these wheels. They sell pre-built wheels significantly cheaper than they sell all the components to build them for - and they already sell the components cheaper than almost anyone else. I've paid a premium to get the components and build the wheel myself because it's fun

Donie75

Get Mavic Open Pro rim on 105 or Ultegra Hubs. 32 spoke should be fine for you. I've been running Open Pro's 36h on Ultegra hubs for 3 or 4 years now and I was a good bit heavier than you. I have never broken a spoke or had to get them trued. Just serviced the hubs myself.
I won't buy anything only handbuilts now.

27cyrix

quozl wrote: »

Xtreme is Rose Bike's own-brand.
...

Is there any difference between 105 hub and freejack?

I am 98kg, i might get that xtreme rim.

quozl

105 is cone and cup bearings, Freejack is cartridge with larger bearings than the 105 and has a preload adjustment. Both are very servicable. The rear hubs are almost identical weights.

Both are very well regarded for the price point (Note, I'm assuming the comments online about Freejacks being rebadged Miche Primato are correct).

The Miche hub is considered a step up but I don't know enough to say if that's a real difference. I'm often a bit dubious of the value you get for spending extra beyond a certain point, and I think Tiagra or 105 hubs are that point. Unless you're racing and are willing to pay for small performance gains or you just want something cooler looking.

If I was building a new pair of wheels, I'd probably get the Freejack hubs as I think they look cooler and they're still pretty cheap. That's not really a strong argument

Mefistofelino

The Rose Xtreme rims are made by Rodi in Portugal.

The Miche / Rose hubs are fine. There are two things worth watching for:
1) They don't use a lock-nut / cone to maintain the bearing pre-load the same way as, say Shimano. Instead, they have an alloy nut/ collar which you set and then secure with a tiny grub screw. Not as secure, in my experience.Its usually a trade off between having the grub screw secure enough to prevent loosening and tightening it too much and stripping the head.
2) They have an alloy freehub body. All very light & sexy ~& everything but prone to having the cassette dig into them. The Shimano 105 body is steel - heavier, but you don't end up with a cassette embedded in the splines.

One point in the rim discussion. The Mavic Open Pro, CXP 33 and Xtreme R490 rims on the previous page are eyeletted. The Xtreme Airline rim isn't. This isn't that much of an issue with handbuilt wheels, but the Rose wheels are machine assembled. One wheel manufacturer(Stan's) has commented when asked why their rims didn't have eyelets: "Single eyeleted rims serve primarily as a means to reduce the lubrication needed between the spoke nipple and rim interface for automated wheel building equipment." This would seem to imply that machine-built wheels on non-eyeletted rims may be prone to issues like spoke-wind-up. Alternatively, Stan's may be talking through their rim.

padyjoe

I think I go for Xtreme Airline on Tiagra or 105 hub. Going to be a long time without bike as I don't have any spare rear wheel. A big thanks to everyone for their inputs!!!

padyjoe

Upgrade: got the Airline 4 with 105 5800 hub. I struggled the cassette off from old and put it on the new. Noticed: there's an odd 'ping' off the rear wheel I wonder are the spokes settling down or am I still heavy? Are they ready to ride or should bring them to a wheelbuilder to give them a once over? The old rim was 700x15 wide the new 700x13. (dis)Mounting the tyres was easy-peasy, now it involves lot of thumb force and struggling, have mind the inner tube very carefully for the last few centimeters as the tyre so stretched the tube has no room at all to be tucked away. (I even have a scary vision of getting a flat on my spin and not being able to change the tube in reasonable time.) I'm running on 25 Grandprix's which have only done 2.2k kms. The rear one has some lateral 'kick' at one spot so it's not as round as it should be. Can't really explain it, had some 'dancing' both on the old rim and new one. It's possible it's gone knackered? Halfway down on twi, plenty of thread left, but there are some rubbing marks on side must have been kissing the mudguard when it wen out of true.

quozl

There's no way you're too heavy for that wheelset. The pings are the spokes un-twisting and can happen when a wheel is first ridden if it wasn't built perfectly. A properly built wheel shouldn't have any twisted spokes but those wheels are robot built and I guess there must have been a small bit of twisting of the spokes.

As they untwist themselves tension will reduce slightly which will affect wheel trueness. Assuming the twisting was minor then it should make very little difference and if the wheels are still true then just ignore it IMO. If the wheel has gone out of true then be a bit annoyed with rosebikes and get it trued by your local bike shop.

As to it being harder to get tyres on the new rim, you may need to get some tyre levers and carry them with you in your saddle bag. Around 3 euro for a set of 3. Rims vary very slightly in size and gatorskins are one of the hardest tyres to get onto a rim as they're so stiff.

Can't really comment on your tyre bulge without seeing it. I'd not be enthused about riding something like that unless it's very minor.

padyjoe

Hats down to your invaluable infos quozl! (and anyone involved) If I'm reading right no to worry about it then. The wheel running well didn't notice any misbehaving. But it is still to be tested on a longer spin I only pedalled around in the parking lot.

Buchaill_Mor

During my 4 week sojourn, I went and put a set of these on my commuter. http://www.mavic.com/wheels-road-triathlon-aksium-one My SR2 wheels, about 3 years old, kept breaking spokes on the drive side. The hub was shot. Transfer of the cassette in your case might need an additional spacer or two. I assume you have a Rapid???? Wheels seem strong enough, and roll nicely. The lacing on the rear is radial on the non drive side, and crossed pairs on the drive side. If I do break a spoke, the truing of the wheel will be a bit harder. Just went out on them on Sunday for a spin, and did the commute yesterday and today. Seemed a nice wheel so far. Rolled well, and was not fazed by the road surface in Ranelagh, but I am more concious of pots holes now, and probably avoided the worst of them. Got a deal from the guys in my LBS as I am a regular customer.

theautophile

That pinging noise you heard when you first got on them is 'spoke twist', so as Quozl rightly pointed out some of the spokes are unwinding. This is most likely due to machine/robot build (not all the machines perform an adequate 'destress' process during the build as robotic builds remove a lot of the stages a handbuilt wheel will go through). It's a very common trend these days and a lot of the OEM wheels on major brands bikes do this from new too.

Do take the wheels to a bikeshop or wheelbuilder and get them checked over before embarking on any major spin as the loose nipples will continue to unwind as you ride and potentially could lead to a failure of some kind. You don't want spokes falling out on a 60Kph decent!

theautophile

Oh and replace that tyre, that lateral bump isn't going to go away, the bikes straight line steering is being affected, safety first :-)

quozl

Surely it's very unlikely that the spokes are actually lose. The spokes are probably unwinding a quarter or half turn. You'd struggle to get a spoke to twist much more than that even if you wanted it to as the more it's twisted the more force pushing it back to untwist.

theautophile

The nipple becomes loose and works its way backward up into the rim, then your spoke pops free of the rim. That's obviously the most extreme example, but long before that, any spoke that has 'twist' and that could be half of them or more (or less), has the potential to loosen its nipple. If half your nipples are loose, there's gonna be play right across the whole wheel build. You're gonna be hearing and seeing those effects quite quickly if left unattended.

padyjoe

Better off getting them checked by a skilled eye! You mentioned robot build: there's a robot at my workplace as well. She's very good at stacking pallets, good for showing off in front of visitors. But she can go only as far as it was programmed into. Wheelbuilding is more serious especially if that thing will be operating at the upper limit with more forces involved. Nothing beats the handcraft! I'll never be a lightweight rider won't go lower than 80-90 kgs. And still perfect to be Miguel Indurain ;-)))

kumate_champ07

at 110kg go for a 21-23mm wide rim, paired with 23/25mm tyre.
Sun CR18 ,Mavic A119/A319, or anything else with a similar profile

if you want a sportier rim Id recommend Kinlin XC279, you could get by with 28 spokes on the rear if you treat them well, otherwise 32 is plenty strong