Bonus payment and resignation

LegacyUser

So,

I've handed in my notice and will be changing jobs soon.

Now, our bonuses are paid at the end of March, and I'm leaving in the middle of March, so I'm having a disagreement with HR regarding payment. I believe I'm technically correct in what I'm saying, but they disagree, the situation is as follows;

I've been working here several years
My contract states we receive a bonus, but doesn't give any conditions around it's payment.
The bonus paid in March 2015 is based on performance for Jan to Dec 2014
I've met all my targets and received a very good review from my manager.
The (outdated) employee handbook doesn't mention any conditions about the bonus.
I've received a bonus every other year and no conditions were ever communicated regarding payment.

I handed in my notice after checking all of the above, knowing that I would be finishing mid-month and we are paid at the end of the month.

A week /after/ I handed in my notice, there's an email from the head of the company, stating what the bonus % will be this year and the 3 conditions required for payment. I meet the other 2, but 1 is that you must be employed on the date of payment.

On this basis, HR are saying I'm not entitled to the bonus since I'm leaving mid-month.

My argument is that they communicated this fact too late (after I had given notice) and that I should still receive it since I am getting paid that month (It would be different if I'd left in January and was looking for a bonus to be paid to me in March
, or if they'd communicated the conditions earlier)


I know, the simplest and smartest thing would have been to push my start date with new company to beginning of April, but I was 50/50 on whether there would be any bonus at all this year anyway, so didn't want to make a fuss with the new employer about pushing out the start date.

As far as I know, there's no legal standing for bonuses and they are paid at the discretion of the employer, so I realise I don't really have any choice but to accept what they say, but am I just being a greedy asshole, or is what I'm saying reasonable?

(I've emailed HR with my counter-argument as to why I should get paid the bonus, but they are taking so long to reply that I may have to escalate it to that person's manager, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle)

gandalf

It depends. Has this happened before, if so was the bonus paid?

TBH I would see a bonus as a means of rewarding and employee for hitting their targets AND for staying loyal to the company which you aren't as you are leaving them.

Is the bonus mentioned in your employment contract? If so are any conditions mentioned in the contract. If not I certainly would push it with them.

I suppose the real factor here on whether you push it is the amount involved. If it's a substantial amount I would push it, if not I would chalk it up to experience and leave on a good footing.

Irish_Elect_Eng

I have never seen a standard annual bonus paid to an employee that has left any company that I have worked with or even handed in their notice to be honest, I would say that you have very little chance of success.

Unfortunately, I think that your timing in leaving was off and the only way of getting this was to be in employment at the time of the bonus being awarded and being paid. Those are pretty typical conditions.

The fact that there are no details of the bonus program in your contract is not an issue, my bonus in not mentioned in my contract at all and it still appears in my bank ac once a year :-)

Believe me the issue will already have been escalated to the HR persons manager, so if you are considering escalation do it through that person by requesting a meeting with them, their manager (and your own manager if they are in agreement with you.) Discuss the issue rationally with them, if they cannot produce a process/procedure/rules of the bonus, then politely state that they should consider creating on to deal with this situation and they can apply it to the next time this happens, but in your case you would appreciate it if they could pay you your bonus in recognition of your excellent contribution to the company. If they can you are out of luck and normal practice is on their side :-)

By all means push, but don't blow your reference by being overly difficult.

Stheno

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

I have never seen a standard annual bonus paid to an employee that has left any company that I have worked with or even handed in their notice to be honest, I would say that you have very little chance of success.

Unfortunately, I think that your timing in leaving was off and the only way of getting this was to be in employment at the time of the bonus being awarded and being paid. Those are pretty typical conditions.

Agree with this, it's been a standard approach in most companies I've worked in who offered bonuses

If you weren't employed by them on the date of payment of the bonus you didn't get it. Was never expressly called out in contracts either

seamus

Any company I've ever worked for only pays bonuses to employee who are with the company at the time the bonuses are paid.

Otherwise you could say that anyone who left between 1st Jan and now are entitled to a bonus from the company.

Unless your contract has some very odd provisions for guaranteed bonuses, you're out of luck.

Colser

Reading that I think that you are entitled to your bonus.I would definitely pursue this if I were you.

Sugar Free

seamus wrote: »

Any company I've ever worked for only pays bonuses to employee who are with the company at the time the bonuses are paid.

Otherwise you could say that anyone who left between 1st Jan and now are entitled to a bonus from the company.

Unless your contract has some very odd provisions for guaranteed bonuses, you're out of luck.

I'd echo Seamus' point. Any place I've been you have to both still be employed and be not working your notice period at the scheduled date of bonus payment in order to receive it.

I have a written bonus % in my contract for on target performance but even then there's a line or two about it being at the discretion of the employer etc. I don't see any way around this in your case though of course I wish you luck.

LegacyUser

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies, I was getting a bit wound up about this due to the HR contact repeatedly ignoring my emails concerning this.

I reached out to a more senior HR person after I posted and they actually addressed my concerns by picking up the phone and speaking to me.

In summary, they recognised that the company has failed in communicating the conditions concerning bonus payments, but that they were unable to make an exception in this case.

I kind of expected this, and thankfully I wasn't banking on the money, I'm happy that they actually recognised they had made a mistake, and steps will be made to address this in the future. They also said they will take steps to ensure that emails from staff do not go ignored in this way again.

Thanks all for the input.

sHnaCk

Hi All, I have a question on resigning and being paid... I resigned, my employer and I amicably agreed I would leave earlier than my notice required in my contract - problem is now that she is only paying me at the end of the month and keeping my P45 until then!
Is she allowed to make me wait for my money and P45?
Thanks in advance - sorry - would have started a new thread but cannot see how!

MarieOC

sHnaCk wrote: »

Hi All, I have a question on resigning and being paid... I resigned, my employer and I amicably agreed I would leave earlier than my notice required in my contract - problem is now that she is only paying me at the end of the month and keeping my P45 until then!
Is she allowed to make me wait for my money and P45?
Thanks in advance - sorry - would have started a new thread but cannot see how!

Are you normally paid at the end of the month? If so then yes that's the standard procedure anywhere I've ever worked.

sHnaCk

Thanks, its the first time I have left a company in the middle of a month so it just seemed really odd to me!

toadfly

sHnaCk wrote: »

Thanks, its the first time I have left a company in the middle of a month so it just seemed really odd to me!

Payroll is processed once a month for everyone so it makes sense to me and the usual practice where I work.

sHnaCk

Thanks, appreciate the answers. At least they aren't messing cos that would have peed me right off.
Interesting that should you get dismissed they must provide you with final wages, P45 etc. on the day you leave but when you resign they don't...

Stheno

sHnaCk wrote: »

Interesting that should you get dismissed they must provide you with final wages, P45 etc. on the day you leave but when you resign they don't...

Where did you see this? Have you a link?

Arbiter of Good Taste

sHnaCk wrote: »

Thanks, appreciate the answers. At least they aren't messing cos that would have peed me right off.
Interesting that should you get dismissed they must provide you with final wages, P45 etc. on the day you leave but when you resign they don't...

Why should they? It's your decision to leave. If a company had to process a special payroll each time an employee left, it would be a logistical pain.

sHnaCk

Yeah, saw it here - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/leaving_work_without_being_paid.html

ibarelycare

You are actually entitled to your P45 and your final pay on your termination date, regardless of when your employer runs their payroll. A lot of employers will still only pay terminated employees on their normal payroll run date, and issue the P45 on this date as well. If an employee is agreeable to this (which, in my experience, the vast majority are) then there are no issues. However an employee can argue that they are entitled to their pay, P45 and final payslip on their termination date.

OU812

Why would you not wait the extra two weeks until the end of the month & avail of two weeks extra funds & the bonus ? Does the new job pay enough to cover the difference with no loss to yourself?

kieran.

Kingspan Panels run a bonus scheme which sounds very similar to the
OPs in relation to %'s and 3 conditions. one of the conditions in their employment contract is that to get paid bonus you must still be an employee on the date the bonus is paid no exceptions.:(:(