Independents Distrust Government?

Black Swan

Gallop reports that in 4th quarter 2013 those surveyed indicated that they were independent without party affiliation (46%), Democrat (29%), and Republican (22%). This represents a record high in independents, suggesting a low level of trust in American government.

When interpreting these results, caution should be exercised based upon the survey methods used by Gallop. Although the sample size of 18,871 was impressive, the survey data collection method had been telephone interviews, which can be problematic.

Reference:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166763/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx

eire4

I think the fact that last Novembers election had a very low turnout the worst in over 70 years would back up this discontent with the current political syetem.

I would also add that given how badly the system has been corrupted by money and gerrymandered political districts has only made things even worse.

edward2222

eire4 wrote: »

I would also add that given how badly the system has been corrupted by money and gerrymandered political districts has only made things even worse.

Well, this is life my friend, government give us pain in the ass instead of giving
us life that worth living for.

eire4

edward2222 wrote: »

Well, this is life my friend, government give us pain in the ass instead of giving
us life that worth living for.

Not really sure what the point your making is there. But if it is that government is inherently bad I would disagree. The canard that government by its very nature is bad is one that we have seen pushed into the public very strongly over recent decades in the US by those with a very specific private profit motivated agenda.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Gallop reports that in 4th quarter 2013 those surveyed indicated that they were independent without party affiliation (46%), Democrat (29%), and Republican (22%). This represents a record high in independents, suggesting a low level of trust in American government.

Or they’re sick and tired of the constant assault of politicians and political parties begging for money via, phone, mail and email. Hell, even Barbara Bush is emailing me now. I’m thinking of changing over to Independent just to stop the harassment, even though I’ll vote Republican in every general election. Primaries don’t much matter in my state because the time a primary election gets around to here, there is only one candidate left for POTUS.

edward2222

eire4 wrote: »

Not really sure what the point your making is there. But if it is that government is inherently bad I would disagree.

I know that the government also did some good things, but didn't you noticed? Theres no President that stops the war, as long as they exist, war would never stop, because for them,
WAR IS PEACE......

Simple question, do you ever hope that someday, the government system will change?

eire4

edward2222 wrote: »

I know that the government also did some good things, but didn't you noticed? Theres no President that stops the war, as long as they exist, war would never stop, because for them,
WAR IS PEACE......

Simple question, do you ever hope that someday, the government system will change?

I agree with you the US foreign policy seems to be way too much of guns and bombs first talk and use more peaceful means second. Then there is the way over bloated military and security budgets.
I certainly do hope that the US can regain a much more democratic system that actually serves the interests of the majority. There is no doubt the system is broken and dysfunctional now only serving a wealthy elite who control the politicans and power in Washinghton. While the 2 party Republican and Democratic cartel talk out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to democracy.

Brian?

Can someone define the "government" in this paradigm, please.

Black Swan

Brian? wrote: »

Can someone define the "government" in this paradigm, please.

Good question. The Gallop poll does not define "government," rather mentions it as a given in the following conclusion:

"The rise in political independence is likely an outgrowth of Americans' record or near-record negative views of the two major U.S. parties, of Congress, and their low level of trust in government more generally."

Brian?

Black Swan wrote: »

Good question. The Gallop poll does not define "government," rather mentions it as a given in the following conclusion:

"The rise in political independence is likely an outgrowth of Americans' record or near-record negative views of the two major U.S. parties, of Congress, and their low level of trust in government more generally."

In the US I find the term government to be pretty ambiguous.

Technically you could have 3 different parties controlling the Senate, House and White House.

eire4

Brian? wrote: »

In the US I find the term government to be pretty ambiguous.

Technically you could have 3 different parties controlling the Senate, House and White House.

That is true technically. But of course the Republican and Democratic cartel and control over power in Washington does not allow for any other voices to be heard never mind a third or even more party to emerge in American politics.

Manic Moran

Radio article last week here made note of the particular growth of non-affiliated persons in California. There are two significant issues here. Firstly, with the open primary system, you don't need to be in a party to vote for one of their candidates in the primary election so there's no particular incentive to affiliate with a party. Secondly, the big decider as to who gets into office in California is the sizeable Republican and Decline-to-State voting mass. CA will remain a heavily Democratic-run state, but what's happening now is the Reps and Independents are having the say as to -which- democrat is going to be in Sacramento or Washington. This is causing the Democratic candidates to move more to the center, or risk being shut out. There is currently a special election being run in my area for State Senate, the two folks left in the run-off are both Democrats, but the current favourite is not the party-annointed one, since he appeals to the center and doesn't have union support (and he is far less distasteful to the right) http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Orinda-Mayor-Glazer-takes-early-lead-in-Senate-6141304.php

Black Swan

Manic Moran wrote: »

Firstly, with the open primary system, you don't need to be in a party to vote for one of their candidates in the primary election so there's no particular incentive to affiliate with a party.

The John Naisbitt Group have suggested that California was a bell weather state in terms of change in America. If so, this makes me wonder if this new type of primary system will eventually spread across the states, allowing Independents more influence in primary outcomes?

Manic Moran

There is a lot of 'Where California leads, others may follow', but it's not necessarily the case. The reason, for example, we're paying more for petrol than most anyone else is that we have regulated special eco-friendly fuel, which no other State seems to have been inclined to follow.

Anyway, the election was the other day.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Glazer-takes-early-lead-in-state-Senate-runoff-6274615.php

Orinda Mayor Steve Glazer won a surprisingly easy victory over fellow Democrat Concord Assemblywoman Susan Bonilla on Tuesday night in what had been a nasty, hard-fought contest for an East Bay state Senate seat.

[...]

“Everything we see tonight is a victory for the Republican Party,” said Josh Pulliam, Bonilla’s campaign consultant. “Republican voters turned out, and they voted for Glazer.”

[...]

While Bonilla and Glazer are members of the same party, they are very different Democrats, and the endorsements and millions of dollars in independent expenditures that poured into the race highlighted those contrasts.
Glazer is a political consultant who for years was a close aide to Gov. Jerry Brown, who has not endorsed anyone in the race. But in recent years Glazer has worked for the California Chamber of Commerce and other business-oriented groups often at odds with the unions that have long been a base of support for the Democratic Party. Most of his endorsements came from local political leaders.
Bonilla, who was first elected to the Assembly in 2010, is a former teacher and Contra Costa County supervisor with overwhelming support from labor and Democratic Party leaders. Her backers included the California Labor Federation and the California Democratic Party.

The actual Republican candidate came out fourth in the primary election. This should be another wake-up call that 'safe' seats are no longer safe for the individual here in California, even if they are still perfectly safe for the party. Moderates have a sudden increase in power.

Glazer's most famous position of late has been to ban the BART (Local commuter rail system) from striking. The strike practically brought the Bay Area commerce to a halt a year ago, the unions lost a lot of support. Especially after the State, spurred by the outcry, took a look at BART finances. But that's another topic.

Overheal

It's difficult not to distrust the government, them having decided that money is free speech and most of their legislation in the past few years favoring lobbying arms. They can't even campaign without raping the spirit of the law - "I'm not running for President, this is an exploratory committee so I can still coordinate with my SuperPACs and rake in bribes donations well in excess of established campaign caps." The fact that your dollar is more important than your vote tends to make one horribly bitter towards the government.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

It's difficult not to distrust the government, them having decided that money is free speech and most of their legislation in the past few years favoring lobbying arms. They can't even campaign without raping the spirit of the law - "I'm not running for President, this is an exploratory committee so I can still coordinate with my SuperPACs and rake in bribes donations well in excess of established campaign caps." The fact that your dollar is more important than your vote tends to make one horribly bitter towards the government.

PACs are so yesterday. Pay-to-play charitable foundations are what all the cool kids have these days.

Manach

As above. A rather disheartening book "A Quiet Word: Lobbying, Crony Capitalism and Broken Politics " I'm reading details the corrosive effect of lobbying in the UK, though it mentions the US system as passing as well which was covered by others like Lawrence Lessig. Perhaps being too cynical thinking it might more effective if votes were simply purchased on ebay ...