Are newer vans gone soft?

jakko86

Hi all looking at buying a 09/10 van at the moment and I'm hearing that most vans nowadays are soft enough, and all give there share of trouble? Is this true I'm a carpenter/builder and I'm looking for something that's reliable and comfortable, from what I've heard from day to day Renault are a no go, newer transits aren't what they used to be, Mercedes engines are a disaster, transporters are maybe the best of a bad lot? Any opinions would be great.

bazz26

Maybe get a last run Hiace.

Pros are that they are old but proven technology.
Cons are that they drive and feel ancient.

Bpmull

My dad had a hell of a lot of renault vans from 2004-2011 every model most he bought new and were often driven hard enough by the guys and they were used in construction but you could count on one hand between them all how many big problems they had. Although the renault master is probably a bit better than the trafic. Overall I think the renault commericals are one of the best but then if you abuse them badly they will cause trouble. So I suppose the issue for you is finding a secondhand van that has been minded and they are hard to find when it comes to vans. I like the transporter too but they have there problems.

You could argue the most reliable van you'll get is a hiace but Jesus that's about the only thing they are good at. They are seriously hard on diesel, rwd is a pain during the winter, not that powerful, very basic, not great to drive the list goes on. When my dad first started his business the very first van he bought was a hiace and it was the last one he bought too to say he hated it would be an understatement.

bazz26

Hyundai H100 are supposed to be decent enough:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Hyundai/H100/Panel-Van/126214209015300600/

kay 9

Iveco are decent but not to everyones taste. Worth considering.

jakko86

Ya I've had a hi ace and it was like driving a tank heavy in diesel the list goes on, currently driving a 03 transit chassis is rotten!thanks for the replies it's hard to know what to buy, never thought of iveco and is the Hyundai a good van?

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Hyundai H100 are supposed to be decent enough:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Hyundai/H100/Panel-Van/126214209015300600/

That's a H1/iLoad, they're a great van.
The iLoad doesn't get the 170bhp engine though. Think its 125 or so.

Kevin McCloud

I wouldn't be getting too caught up in bhp for a van, unless you plan doing track days the weekend with it.

colm_mcm

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

I wouldn't be getting too caught up in bhp for a van, unless you plan doing track days the weekend with it.

Whys that? Would you not like something that's nice to drive?

VW and Mercedes among others sell a good few high bhp versions of their small vans.

Bpmull

Just op if you do happen to be looking at Renaults don't touch the 2.5 dci 150bhp engine as they were a disaster the 2.5dci 120 bhp was a good engine though.

The 2.5tdi v5 transporter would be a nice van either 130bhp or 174bhp but they can be abit hit and miss with reliabilty they are far from the worst though.

Kevin McCloud

colm_mcm wrote: »

Whys that? Would you not like something that's nice to drive?

A big bhp engine has no bearing on comfort, take the 1.9tdi transporter what less comfort has it of the 2.5tdi version?

MuppetCheck

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

A big bhp engine has no bearing on comfort, take the 1.9tdi transporter what less comfort has it of the 2.5tdi version?

Worse overtaking? Less torque so more gear changes?

Kevin McCloud

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Worse overtaking? Less torque so more gear changes?

Missing the point on comfort, take the hiace 2.4 100 odd bhp against a 1.9 transporter, hiace has bigger engine does that make it a more comfortable and nicer drive?

Moomat

jakko86 wrote: »

Ya I've had a hi ace and it was like driving a tank heavy in diesel the list goes on, currently driving a 03 transit chassis is rotten!thanks for the replies it's hard to know what to buy, never thought of iveco and is the Hyundai a good van?

I'm a fan of the Ivecos too. The 2.3 is a fantastic engine and very light on diesel. I ran all types of vans and the Iveco were by far the least troublesome. They are not jam packed with technology that is liable to go wrong and they certainly aren't soft.

colm_mcm

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Missing the point on comfort, take the hiace 2.4 100 odd bhp against a 1.9 transporter, hiace has bigger engine does that make it a more comfortable and nicer drive?

I think you're deliberately missing the point here.

Kevin McCloud

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think you're deliberately missing the point here.

If you try answering what you are asked, you are of the opinion bigger bhp engines are a nicer van to drive.
Take the hiace versus the 1.9 transporter, the hiace has a bigger engine, has more power as they say on top gear. Is the hiace a nicer drive?

colm_mcm

The hiace is from 1995, so ergonomics of 20 years ago. The engine is underpowered, so is hard work.
I don't really care if a 95bhp 2.5 hiace has 5bhp more than a 1.9 Transporter. Having 170 is a lot different, and makes the can nicer to drive.

Not that I ever mentioned comfort.

Moomat

There's a happy medium and if you have the horses you have to feed them! If feeding the horses is not an issue then this beast is ine to consider http://vans.autotrader.co.uk/van-news-reviews/mercedes-benz/vito/mercedes-benz-vito-sport-x-2013-expert-review/f9537611-3f12-4f89-b2df-a6ca82171381

Almost bought one in the old shape a few years back but as hard as I tried I just couldn't justify it. Great craic to drive!

Bpmull

Moomat wrote: »

There's a happy medium and if you have the horses you have to feed them! If feeding the horses is not an issue then this beast is ine to consider http://vans.autotrader.co.uk/van-news-reviews/mercedes-benz/vito/mercedes-benz-vito-sport-x-2013-expert-review/f9537611-3f12-4f89-b2df-a6ca82171381

Almost bought one in the old shape a few years back but as hard as I tried I just couldn't justify it. Great craic to drive!

The 174 bhp transporters are not that hard on diesel wouldn't be any worse than anything else I know a guy that had 4 174 4 motion transporters.

Kevin McCloud

colm_mcm wrote: »

The hiace is from 1995, so ergonomics of 20 years ago. The engine is underpowered, so is hard work.
I don't really care if a 95bhp 2.5 hiace has 5bhp more than a 1.9 Transporter. Having 170 is a lot different, and makes the can nicer to drive.

Not that I ever mentioned comfort.

The hiace is not underpowered to be fair about it, its engine is what you want in a van, able to pull a load and draw trailers with. There is no arguement that the 170bhp transporter is a fine drive, much more trouble some and softer van though.
Im not saying the hiace is the better of the two but this thing of having 170bhp is like the fella who has the chainsaw with the big 42" bar, after watching too much american loggers and thinking bigger is better.

colm_mcm

With respect, I sold new and used Hiaces when they were out, and have driven hiaces since the late 90s. Yes they're a workhorse, but they are underpowered and heavy on diesel compared to more modern stuff. They are also uncomfortable and not as safe as more modern vans.

I also have experience of a hyundai H1's, and again have sold some. I also know a few people that have them, and have driven H1s a good bit (both empty, fully laden and in-between)

I also never recommended a Transporter.

Anyway, I'm gonna bow out of this thread, there's only so much misquoting I can take.

MuppetCheck

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Missing the point on comfort, take the hiace 2.4 100 odd bhp against a 1.9 transporter, hiace has bigger engine does that make it a more comfortable and nicer drive?

Who mentioned a Hiace? You were specifically comparing two transporters. You're just changing things to suit your argument.

Helpmefarm

jakko86 wrote: »

Hi all looking at buying a 09/10 van at the moment and I'm hearing that most vans nowadays are soft enough, and all give there share of trouble? Is this true I'm a carpenter/builder and I'm looking for something that's reliable and comfortable, from what I've heard from day to day Renault are a no go, newer transits aren't what they used to be, Mercedes engines are a disaster, transporters are maybe the best of a bad lot? Any opinions would be great.

In the same boat, 05 transit and it a bucket of rust, did not see any second vans that i would buy so bought the new vivaro and waiting on it to come. 5 year warranty free servicing. Hard to part with round 10k for newish van that probably going to give trouble

Kevin McCloud

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Who mentioned a Hiace? You were specifically comparing two transporters. You're just changing things to suit your argument.

Ok fair enough back to the two transporters, i said that the 1.9 would have no less comfort than the 2.5 to which you replied worse overtaking, less torque more overtaking. Comfort to me is the seat you are sitting on and the cockpit, not the size of an engine.

Old diesel

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Ok fair enough back to the two transporters, i said that the 1.9 would have no less comfort than the 2.5 to which you replied worse overtaking, less torque more overtaking. Comfort to me is the seat you are sitting on and the cockpit, not the size of an engine.

Depending on how the power is delivered - more power can enhance the overall driving comfort of the vehicle.

Its NOT that the seat is going to be more comfy or the van ride better neccessarly - but a more relaxed drive means better comfort

CJ Haughey

If you operate a Medical Courier business and are on the road 10 hours a day get the 170bhp transporter.
If you are a builder/carpenter who uses their van commuting an hour in the morning and evening and pulling the 8x4 tipper trailer occasionaly then the 130bhp transporter is more than enough. Hiace is a plain jane van but extremely reliable, it will be by far a cheaper van to maintain. A renault master another contender. I know a courier driver who has a fiat ducato with a million miles and he drives on alot of bad roads with big weight and the van has served him well.
Buying a 170bhp transporter 09 is 6 years old and getting on and will be starting to get troublesome, true can be said for every van so its check it out well before you hand over your cash.

Old diesel

CJ Haughey wrote: »

If you operate a Medical Courier business and are on the road 10 hours a day get the 170bhp transporter.
If you are a builder/carpenter who uses their van commuting an hour in the morning and evening and pulling the 8x4 tipper trailer occasionaly then the 130bhp transporter is more than enough. Hiace is a plain jane van but extremely reliable, it will be by far a cheaper van to maintain. A renault master another contender. I know a courier driver who has a fiat ducato with a million miles and he drives on alot of bad roads with big weight and the van has served him well.
Buying a 170bhp transporter 09 is 6 years old and getting on and will be starting to get troublesome, true can be said for every van so its check it out well before you hand over your cash.

That million mile Ducato deserves a thread of its own

jakko86

Thanks lads no further on in my search for a van, hard to see anything out there from 07-11 that's in fairly good nick, lots up north but wouldn't chance it I think have heard a lot about clocked vans etc. transporters are very expensive!! Vivaro/primastar gearbox engine problems?At this stage I'm thinking semi high roof transit or similar.

Moomat

jakko86 wrote: »

Thanks lads no further on in my search for a van, hard to see anything out there from 07-11 that's in fairly good nick, lots up north but wouldn't chance it I think have heard a lot about clocked vans etc. transporters are very expensive!! Vivaro/primastar gearbox engine problems?At this stage I'm thinking semi high roof transit or similar.

I'd imagine there is a serious shortage of Irish secondhand vans from 2009 onwards. Very little being registered new in Ireland in comparison to pre-2009. If the economy picks up sharply this shortage will become very apparent. Taking the majority of 6 years supply of secondhand vehicles is a huge amount.
These figures are for new commercial vehicle registrations, long way to go to get to 2008 levels.
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/Graphics/MakeGraph.asp?menu=y&pxfile=20153121513541173828TEM02.px&gr_type=1&PLanguage=0