Do I have a contract?

Misticles

I started working for the company on a graduate programme in 2011, i signed the contract, in it it detailed salary for year 1 and year 2, notice period etc. The graduate programme ceased after 2 years and I went onto a new salary. I asked for a new contract but none was given.

Fast forward to August 2014, I go on a career break, p45 issued. I return a little over a month later as things didn't go to plan.

Am I still bound by the notice period clauses in that original contract from 2011?

davo10

Did you resign when you went on career break? You said a p45 was issued, that is issued when you leave your job.

El_Duderino 09

Yeah it sounds like your contracted employment ended with the p45. Get a new contract. I worked for a guy for 2years while he assured me that I have a standard contract by virtue of getting paid into my account. He held the contract over me at times and reminded me of my responsibilities.

Fast forward to the inevitable conclusion. He fires me on the spot and never had me on the books. I was unemployed and hadn't paid tax so couldn't claim JSA.

That was a long way of saying 'demand a contract on Monday'!

Your boss sounds more legit than mine was but if you haven't signed a new contract then you don't have a new contract.

Best of luck

dudara

You could argue that due to the fact that you are returning to the same role, that the same conditions will apply. Employment law is designed to allow "de facto" contacts (where no official contracts exist).

But as always, it's best to have a proper contract in place.

davo10

dudara wrote: »

You could argue that due to the fact that you are returning to the same role, that the same conditions will apply. Employment law is designed to allow "de facto" contacts (where no official contracts exist).

But as always, it's best to have a proper contract in place.

The p45 is key, it sounds like op resigned to go travelling. If that is the case, what went before is no longer binding

Misticles

Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't resign they just issued me with a P45, I didn't think anything of it at the time, I thought it was the norm.

The long and short of it is- that 2011 contract has a hefty notice period in it which no prospective employer will hang around for, I was even told this is why it's so long- to put you off looking for another job. I have found a new job and am trying to serve a months notice which is the norm in most places.

davo10

Misticles wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't resign they just issued me with a P45, I didn't think anything of it at the time, I thought it was the norm.

The long and short of it is- that 2011 contract has a hefty notice period in it which no prospective employer will hang around for, I was even told this is why it's so long- to put you off looking for another job. I have found a new job and am trying to serve a months notice which is the norm in most places.

In that case op the p45 works in your favour. You started a new period of employment when you came back and as you have no contract for this new period, you can just give the one week notice for someone employed for less than one year.

Misticles

davo10 wrote: »

In that case op the p45 works in your favour. You started a new period of employment when you came back and as you have no contract for this new period, you can just give the one week notice for someone employed for less than one year.

Thanks!


I handed my months notice in on Thursday and the 3 months has been brought up casually by my boss who tried to convince me to stay but advised HR would be onto me about it.

Misticles

I had a call with HR. They are saying I have an implied contract and have to serve the 3 months.

Tristram

That's an interesting one. The P45 signalled the end of your old contract but I guess if all your work/pay conditions are the same as before since you started back again maybe they can argue that the notice period would also be the same.

Misticles

Tristram wrote: »

That's an interesting one. The P45 signalled the end of your old contract but I guess if all your work/pay conditions are the same as before since you started back again maybe they can argue that the notice period would also be the same.

I think that's the angle they are taking. My pay and role that was in the contract is not the same as what I do now, that contract is geared around a graduate programme. I never got a new contract despite asking for it when I finished the contract.

When I went back in October I did ask to be employed under new conditions but it didn't happen.

Mrs OBumble

Misticles wrote: »

I had a call with HR. They are saying I have an implied contract and have to serve the 3 months.

Of course they are saying that: having a go at the easiest line is what HR do best.

If you make them think you are taking independent legal advice and are prepared to fight, they are likely to back off and agree something more reasonable quite quickly.

IMHO, it's very unlikely that a court would enforce something like this: if you were only a grad in 2011, then you're hardly some kind of uber-specialist key resource that needs to be on a senior executive style notice period.
(That's only my opinion, of course - not legal advice.)

But consider your and their interests. They want you to be around for long enough to hand-over to someone else: they don't really want you hanging around unhappy for three months. You want to be able to use them as a reference. There is a middle ground to be found here - likely negotiated, rather than based on contracts.

duffman13

The crux of this dispute I feel is going to lie in the terms of the career break or was it a more casual agreement? Most of them I have been privy to maintain terms and service remains the same upon return of career break at which point you would be bound by the notice periods. It's impossible to say without seeing your career break agreement

Misticles

duffman13 wrote: »

The crux of this dispute I feel is going to lie in the terms of the career break or was it a more casual agreement? Most of them I have been privy to maintain terms and service remains the same upon return of career break at which point you would be bound by the notice periods. It's impossible to say without seeing your career break agreement

"whilst we will endeavour to confirm employment upon your proposed return date, such a confirmation of re-employment will depend upon the business need and opportunity i.e. if there is a relevant role for a person of your skillset and experience to return to. We would expect to engage in discussions on that subject 1 month prior to your proposed return."

There is nothing about notice periods at all. That was in an email too not an official document.

duffman13

Misticles wrote: »

"whilst we will endeavour to confirm employment upon your proposed return date, such a confirmation of re-employment will depend upon the business need and opportunity i.e. if there is a relevant role for a person of your skillset and experience to return to. We would expect to engage in discussions on that subject 1 month prior to your proposed return."

There is nothing about notice periods at all. That was in an email too not an official document.

What about mentioning of terms? I would say it's implied if you went back on the same terms and conditions and and if they are honouring your length of service. Every contract is different but from my experience in a couple of companies on return of career break you will be returned to a similar role whilst recognising your length of service (minus career break) through benefits such as place on salary scale/ additional hoays therefore your notice period is implied through acceptance of these terms

Edit: Just seen not an official document. You can argue yourself you agreed to break your employment, all very unprofessional so I doubt they'll be able to stand over it. Can't believe in this day an age a company don't specify simple things in contracts