Personal Insolvency or Bankrupcy

pippendale

Hi,

I am looking for some advice on my situation.
About 10yrs ago my father bought 4 houses in my name with loans secured to approx €900000. Over the last 6/7 years he has being using the rent from these houses to keep some of his businesses alive. I stupidly enough left it all with him as I was very young and I've recently found that no payment has been made in years for this loan and they have a court order to repossess the houses.

In the meantime I have got married and my wife had bought a house for us to live in with a loan for €650000 for which we have not missed a payment. We take home approx. €5500 between us each month and at the moment are comfortable.
My feeling always was that the other loan in my name is as good as dead and that I could just hand back the 4 houses and walk away.
The more I look into it things look fairly grim. Ive been advised that I will either have to enter a personal insolvency plan or go bankrupt. I have no problem with either but I have been told that they can take a large amount of money straight out of my bank account every month which would leave me in a very bad situation as I have recently had a child also.

My take home wages are approx 3300. Does anyone know what way this will end up? I stupidly have left this mess in my fathers hands and left it out of my mind thinking he would look after me but it looks now hes putting me in more trouble as the years go on.
Is it possible that they will look to extract €14/1500 a month from my wages? Will they even consider that I pay approx €1000 a month for my wifes mortage (our home)? Would I be better off on the dole? I really cannot stand the thought of working for nothing for the next 6/7 years.

I appreciate your comments.

Vince1974

Hi Pippendale,

Legally those 4 houses are yours and the once the banks have repossessed and sold them they're going to come to you for any shortfall on the 900k loans.

The way it would work is that there are guidelines to reasonable living expenses that are taken into account before it is determined how much you would be able to pay towards your debts. (http://www.isi.gov.ie/en/ISI/Guidelines%20under%20section%2023%20-%20Version%204%20-%20Jan%202015.pdf/Files/Guidelines%20under%20section%2023%20-%20Version%204%20-%20Jan%202015.pdf)

The best thing to do in your situation would be to talk to a Personal Insolvency Practitioner, I'd go with one who does not charge any upfront fees. It should clarify the options for you.

Have a look at this as well: http://www.natlbankruptcy.com/will-bankruptcy-affect-my-spouse/

Hope this helps.

V.

ANXIOUS

Have you spoke to your father? How much are the houses worth? Also on a side note it appears you wife is on 38-40k gross, how she get a mortgage for 15x salary.

pippendale

Yeah I am aware of the insolvency route was just wondering if anyone knew how much id end up getting hit for.. What if I refused to pay??
My Dad had contacts in the bank it's actually a disgrace how myself or my wife got either mortgage. my dad swindled 900 k for me and I hadn't even a job. I was 21 a student in college.. He also took out smaller personal loans in my name that I have no idea how he did it.. Messy situation

pippendale

Houses are probably worth 350-400k tops

Atlantic Dawn

pippendale wrote: »

He also took out smaller personal loans in my name that I have no idea how he did it.. Messy situation

Eh how?

Toots

pippendale I think you really need to get legal advice on this.

pippendale

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Eh how?

I really don't know. In fairness there wasn't any malice in what he did he honestly thought he would pay it all back and then the recession hit which left him in no mans land.

I haven't 100% fallen out with him but as you can probably tell it has put a strain on our relationship.

I just really want to know where I stand from a payback point of view. If I could pay 200 a month or similar over 5/6 years I would have no problem with that. If I had to pay 800-1000 a month or more I really would have a problem as I would be better off on the dole.

NIMAN

I can't believe your signature or attendance wasn't required at some stage of these loans, was it?
Are you telling the full story here? It's not like I could go to a bank and take out a loan in my sisters/brothers/mothers name. Thats simply not possible and wasn't even back in the madness of the Tiger.

Your father has done a lot of damage here.

pippendale

NIMAN wrote: »

I can't believe your signature or attendance wasn't required at some stage of these loans, was it?
Are you telling the full story here? It's not like I could go to a bank and take out a loan in my sisters/brothers/mothers name. Thats simply not possible and wasn't even back in the madness of the Tiger.

Your father has done a lot of damage here.

Yes I am telling the full truth what would I have to gain by lying to strangers on this... Loans of 25k and 10k that I know of were taken out and I hadn't a clue.. He was good at getting what he wanted I'll give him that.. Yes I am aware he's done damage that's the reason I've posted here to find out just how much.. If I could refuse to pay it then there is no harm done so that's what I'm looking to figure out

pippendale

pippendale wrote: »

Yes I am telling the full truth what would I have to gain by lying to strangers on this... Loans of 25k and 10k that I know of were taken out and I hadn't a clue.. He was good at getting what he wanted I'll give him that.. Yes I am aware he's done damage that's the reason I've posted here to find out just how much.. If I could refuse to pay it then there is no harm done so that's what I'm looking to figure out

What I am really asking is can someone go into my bank account and take €1000 a month out without me being able to do anything about it?

NIMAN

I think if you are in an insolvency program, they probably can.

I'm no legal expert, but surely if a loan was taken out in your name but you knew nothing about it, it might be able to be classified as null and void if the lending institution hasn't got your signature?

Marcusm

pippendale wrote: »

What I am really asking is can someone go into my bank account and take €1000 a month out without me being able to do anything about it?

You need ot get legal advice and quickly to establish whether you have any standing to disclaim liability for the loans or to establish your position on repaying them. If the loans are in arrears, the banks could apply for a judgement against you, an attachment or garnishee order against your earnings and lots of other legal means to obtain payment. Putting your head int he sand is unlikely to help you or your family to move forward.

You would not be the only "child" who has ended up in this position thanks to the "benevolent" action of their parents, there have even been high profile court cases on similar situations.

pippendale

NIMAN wrote: »

I think if you are in an insolvency program, they probably can.

I'm no legal expert, but surely if a loan was taken out in your name but you knew nothing about it, it might be able to be classified as null and void if the lending institution hasn't got your signature?

Yeah I haven't entered into anything yet.. Have a meeting with a PIP this week.. The 900k was signed for just not the smaller loans... I was very young had no idea what I was at signing for the other loans.. How do you get 900k and not even have a job. Madness. Now I'll end up getting screwed for life over it when the bank should be screwed.

pippendale

Marcusm wrote: »

You need ot get legal advice and quickly to establish whether you have any standing to disclaim liability for the loans or to establish your position on repaying them. If the loans are in arrears, the banks could apply for a judgement against you, an attachment or garnishee order against your earnings and lots of other legal means to obtain payment. Putting your head int he sand is unlikely to help you or your family to move forward.

You would not be the only "child" who has ended up in this position thanks to the "benevolent" action of their parents, there have even been high profile court cases on similar situations.

What was the outcome in these cases???

Oral Surgeon

If you didn't sign for some of the loans then challenge them!!! Same as if someone made an unauthorized credit card payment... It shouldn't matter that it was your dad...

NIMAN

Unfortunately the OP did sign for €900,000 of loans. Thats what will do the damage I'm afraid.

@ OP, We you over 18 when you signed for these huge loans?

pippendale

NIMAN wrote: »

Unfortunately the OP did sign for €900,000 of loans. Thats what will do the damage I'm afraid.

@ OP, We you over 18 when you signed for these huge loans?

Yes unfortunately I was over 18... Going to a PIP this week should know more then... Will prob be six weeks before I get an answer that's if the bank are willing to do business with me

NIMAN

Best of luck.

Gerry T

Just a side note what has your Dad to say. Is he offering to sell his house and businesses to help the situation or is his own financial affairs gone down the toilet also.
All I would say is you have your own family now, child and wife. In my opinion that's where you need to focus your attention. They need to come first ahead of your father.
A horrible situation to find yourself in and you can't do the right thing for everyone, you will have to choose sides I would think