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Vw golf emissions

  • 27-02-2015 9:43pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28


    Car driving like new with no stutters, starts on the button , no smoke all around a great car but keeps failing on emissions ,, the macanic just keeps throwing parts at it and basically hoping but for the best but is it right he should be getting paid for his guess work ?
    Any one in the Kildare area know of a macanic who has a emissions machine to get an idea of what might be causing it ?

    Car has been serviced , cat put in but I don't think it was a new one , just don't want to keep paying for his guess work ,
    Thanks all


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭dooroy


    Hi! If you could give more details on the car there are very knowledgeable and helpful people on here (I'm not one of them:D but I have learned a lot from here)
    Details such as year of car , mileage , engine (1.4/1.6 etc ) and also some idea of what has been done so far .Also when has it been serviced last and is it, for example , using oil ( a lot of Golfs do have this problem).
    You could post the emission results from your latest test as they can sometimes indicate where the problem may lie .
    Emissions failures are very frustrating - as you say the car seems fine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    mission excepted :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    00 reg VOLKSWAGEN GOLF MK IV 1.4 16V
    family members car so the work that the mechanic said he done was
    "full service"
    changed cat but it couldnt of been new because of the price (might of been cleaned but dont want to speculate yet)
    ran a few bottles of petrol additive through it,

    pre cat results

    low idle
    co 5.22 vol
    750 rpm
    hc 591 ppm

    lambda 054
    high idle
    co 1121 vol
    2890 rpm
    hc 3550 ppm

    post cat results

    low idle
    co 6.15 vol
    790 rpm
    hc 401 ppm

    high idle
    lambda 082
    2810 rpm
    co 756 vol
    hc 604 ppm

    dont have the pass/fail values to hand


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭dooroy


    Hopefully someone will offer some advice .
    I have had problems with similar Golfs belonging to family members .
    Does the car do a lot of short runs - sometimes a good blast on the motorway
    ( otherwise known as the Italian tuneup ;)) can be a great help ; in one case it appeared to 'revive' the cat on a bro in laws Golf.
    Second hand cats I discovered could be a 'minefield' .
    What mileage has the car done - many of these developed a 'thirst' for oil and this of course played havoc with emissions


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    00 reg VOLKSWAGEN GOLF MK IV 1.4 16V
    family members car so the work that the mechanic said he done was
    "full service"
    changed cat but it couldn't of been new because of the price (might of been cleaned but don't want to speculate yet)
    ran a few bottles of petrol additive through it,

    PRE CAT RESULTS

    low idle CO 5.22 vol-Above 0.50% is a fail
    750 rpm HC 591 ppm-Above 0ppm is a Fail


    high idle
    lambda 054-not between 0.97 and 1.03 = Fail
    2890 rpm
    CO 11.21 vol-above 0.30% = Fail
    HC 3.550 ppm-above 200ppm =Fail

    POST CAT RESULTS

    low idle CO 6.15 vol-Above 0.50% is a fail
    790 rpm HC 401 ppm-Above 0ppm is a Fail

    high idle lambda 082-not between 0.97 and 1.03 = Fail
    2810 rpm CO 756 vol0-above 0.30% = Fail
    HC 604 ppm-above 200ppm =Fail


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    can i delete the multiple posts :) cant find it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    dooroy wrote: »
    Hopefully someone will offer some advice .
    I have had problems with similar Golfs belonging to family members .
    Does the car do a lot of short runs - sometimes a good blast on the motorway
    ( otherwise known as the Italian tuneup ;)) can be a great help ; in one case it appeared to 'revive' the cat on a bro in laws Golf.
    Second hand cats I discovered could be a 'minefield' .
    What mileage has the car done - many of these developed a 'thirst' for oil and this of course played havoc with emissions


    the car is perfect so im stumped ,, ill try some of the dipetane and an hour in mondello and see how it goes :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭dooroy


    There are guys on here who can make sense of these readings .
    I got to know a bit about them when I had the problems with the Golfs but as I don't work with them on a regular basis I have forgotten most of it again .
    Your readings are well off though - the HC for example is well outside the limit and also the Lambda is way out .
    I remember fitting a new Lambda sensor in one of them ( having checked it using a multimeter) and it solved the problem .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    dooroy wrote: »
    There are guys on here who can make sense of these readings .
    I got to know a bit about them when I had the problems with the Golfs but as I don't work with them on a regular basis I have forgotten most of it again .
    Your readings are well off though - the HC for example is well outside the limit and also the Lambda is way out .
    I remember fitting a new Lambda sensor in one of them ( having checked it using a multimeter) and it solved the problem .

    i do most of the work on my car myself and i have basic knowledge but i just dont want her paying anymore for the guess work ,, ill be an expert by the end of this ordeal :)
    cheers for the interest


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    if i was to try change the lambda and with the above stats would i be better changing the front or back one first


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭dooroy


    As far as I know there is only one Lambda on the Golf ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    i was just checking it out and ive seen people talking about one before the cat and one before .. but most people say the one before deals with fuel mixture , but it is the internet :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug


    Il PM you two contacts, one in Naas and one in Kilcock.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    dieselbug wrote: »
    Il PM you two contacts, one in Naas and one in Kilcock.

    Cheers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭dooroy


    It seems your car has 2 sensors as you said - one precat and one postcat :D.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭MAJJ


    You might not be to far from George Dalton, check his posts on these forums.

    http://www.daltons.ie/contactus.php


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    00 reg VOLKSWAGEN GOLF MK IV 1.4 16V
    family members car so the work that the mechanic said he done was
    "full service"
    changed cat but it couldnt of been new because of the price (might of been cleaned but dont want to speculate yet)
    ran a few bottles of petrol additive through it,

    pre cat results

    low idle
    co 5.22 vol
    750 rpm
    hc 591 ppm

    lambda 054
    high idle
    co 1121 vol
    2890 rpm
    hc 3550 ppm

    post cat results

    low idle
    co 6.15 vol
    790 rpm
    hc 401 ppm

    high idle
    lambda 082
    2810 rpm
    co 756 vol
    hc 604 ppm

    dont have the pass/fail values to hand

    Matthew, I'm a bit confused by your readings, does "precat" and "post cat" refer to exhaust gas analysis taken beforethe cat and after the cat or do you mean taken before the cat waschanged/cleaned and after it was changed/cleaned?. The NCT test to the best ofmy knowledge only takes a exhaust gas analysis from the exhaust pipe. The second Lambda probe is used to monitor the efficiency of the Cat, the first Lambda does the "fuel mixture" control, if the cat isnt doing its job properly then the emission light will be flagged in the dash. There is no reason whatsoever for the car to fail on emissions even if its "burning oil", obviously as long as its not "drinking it" On a car thats burning oil say up to 750 to 1000 miles/Litre and assuming everything else is OK with the engine then you will see the HC results rising until finally at >200 ppm, it fails the test. There are dozens of Golfs/Boras like yours&mine that have well over 150K miles up and are still passing the emission tests while still on their original Cat . I have included my last test report on an 00 Bora with 180K miles done, on its original Cat, (only one lambda in this one), you will see if you can read my scan that the HC is 105 PPM, still quite a bit to go before the limit of 200 PPM. Now of course all this crap isnt going to fix your car for you but I would be pretty confident that you can get those emissions down. Dont know what Province you are residing in, but if its anywhere near Cork, send me a PM and I will have no problem in helping you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭George Dalton


    Any 1.4 Golfs I have seen with lambda readings like those have needed an engine rebuild.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    Matthew, I'm a bit confused by your readings, does "precat" and "post cat" refer to exhaust gas analysis taken beforethe cat and after the cat or do you mean taken before the cat waschanged/cleaned and after it was changed/cleaned?. The NCT test to the best ofmy knowledge only takes a exhaust gas analysis from the exhaust pipe. The second Lambda probe is used to monitor the efficiency of the Cat, the first Lambda does the "fuel mixture" control, if the cat isnt doing its job properly then the emission light will be flagged in the dash. There is no reason whatsoever for the car to fail on emissions even if its "burning oil", obviously as long as its not "drinking it" On a car thats burning oil say up to 750 to 1000 miles/Litre and assuming everything else is OK with the engine then you will see the HC results rising until finally at >200 ppm, it fails the test. There are dozens of Golfs/Boras like yours&mine that have well over 150K miles up and are still passing the emission tests while still on their original Cat . I have included my last test report on an 00 Bora with 180K miles done, on its original Cat, (only one lambda in this one), you will see if you can read my scan that the HC is 105 PPM, still quite a bit to go before the limit of 200 PPM. Now of course all this crap isnt going to fix your car for you but I would be pretty confident that you can get those emissions down. Dont know what Province you are residing in, but if its anywhere near Cork, send me a PM and I will have no problem in helping you.


    Sorry I should have made it a bit more clear ,, the readings are from the Nct before and after "work" was done on the Cat ,, there is no check engine light on the dash but I'm thinking maybe the actual build might have been pulled by the previous owner but that's only speculation ,, I could take it out and check it over the next few day ,, I'm going to go somewhere and get the codes read and see if it shows anything interesting ,, I'll also check for air leaks and the like ,, thanks for the info it gave me a bit more to think about ,, unfortunately I'm not down you're way but the offer was kind one my friend


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    Any 1.4 Golfs I have seen with lambda readings like those have needed an engine rebuild.

    It would be a shame if it did because of how good it runs ,, but again if it can't pass emissions something is up ,, thanks for the info


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    no smoke ....no poke!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    no smoke ....no poke!!!

    No smoke and a 1.4 so no poke either :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    Sorry I should have made it a bit more clear ,, the readings are from the Nct before and after "work" was done on the Cat ,, there is no check engine light on the dash but I'm thinking maybe the actual build might have been pulled by the previous owner but that's only speculation ,, I could take it out and check it over the next few day ,, I'm going to go somewhere and get the codes read and see if it shows anything interesting ,, I'll also check for air leaks and the like ,, thanks for the info it gave me a bit more to think about ,, unfortunately I'm not down you're way but the offer was kind one my friend

    A compression test will tell alot, it may be worth doing it before going further down any road, you can do it easily yourself if you can borrow a compression gauge with attachment. You will have to take a few precautions with the fuel and ignition systems then just ensure that the engine is hot and that the throttle plate is wide open while cranking the engine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 matthew1979


    A compression test will tell alot, it may be worth doing it before going further down any road, you can do it easily yourself if you can borrow a compression gauge with attachment. You will have to take a few precautions with the fuel and ignition systems then just ensure that the engine is hot and that the throttle plate is wide open while cranking the engine.

    I suppose that would make sense, I might just get this done first just incase , it might save me a lot of unnecessary investigating down the road , if it isn't smoking , drinking oil or fuel would be a possibility that the cylinders might be ok ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    I suppose that would make sense, I might just get this done first just incase , it might save me a lot of unnecessary investigating down the road , if it isn't smoking , drinking oil or fuel would be a possibility that the cylinders might be ok ?

    Oil consumption on high mileage cars is a combination of cylinder/piston ring wear and valve guide/seal wear, as I said previously and proven by my own Bora that oil consumption should not mean emission failure, I dont drive the Bora now, although still in the family and maintained by me, its oil consumption is around 1000 to 1200 miles/Litre and it has always used a drop of oil, certainly from around 100K miles onwards. Of course oil burning isnt supposed to be conducive to long Cat life but my one is still soldiering on after fourteen years +.
    So, yes, the cylinders etc may still be quite serviceable, the compression test will give a very good indication, if properly carried out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭PukkaStukka


    Any 1.4 Golfs I have seen with lambda readings like those have needed an engine rebuild.

    Agree. I can't understand how a car that's described as running perfectly has its emissions totally off the scale. They're up there with a small industrial town. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭9935452


    Oil consumption on high mileage cars is a combination of cylinder/piston ring wear and valve guide/seal wear, as I said previously and proven by my own Bora that oil consumption should not mean emission failure, I dont drive the Bora now, although still in the family and maintained by me, its oil consumption is around 1000 to 1200 miles/Litre and it has always used a drop of oil, certainly from around 100K miles onwards. Of course oil burning isnt supposed to be conducive to long Cat life but my one is still soldiering on after fourteen years +.
    So, yes, the cylinders etc may still be quite serviceable, the compression test will give a very good indication, if properly carried out.

    I had a 02 1.4 golf which burned a litre of oil every 3000 miles and also had no issue with emissions. car had 130k miles done.
    Out of curiosity what oil are you using in the car. At one stage i put 5w30 in the car and it used a liter per 1000 miles. back to 10w40 and it used 1l per3000 miles
    There was also only 1 lambda sensor on that car


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    9935452 wrote: »
    I had a 02 1.4 golf which burned a litre of oil every 3000 miles and also had no issue with emissions. car had 130k miles done.
    Out of curiosity what oil are you using in the car. At one stage i put 5w30 in the car and it used a liter per 1000 miles. back to 10w40 and it used 1l per3000 miles
    There was also only 1 lambda sensor on that car

    I use 5W 30 to VW 500 00 or VW 502 00 specification.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭9935452


    I use 5W 30 to VW 500 00 or VW 502 00 specification.

    Try 10w40 to the correct spec the next time and i would nearly gaurantee that that oil usage will drop drastically.
    Any mechanic i spoke to said 5w30 was too thin for my car


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,703 ✭✭✭blackbox


    i was just checking it out and ive seen people talking about one before the cat and one before .. but most people say the one before deals with fuel mixture , but it is the internet :)

    Correct - the one(s) before the cat measure the mixture and adjusts accordingly as soon as the car warms up. The one at the back is just to check and should give a warning light if emissions are outside range.


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