RDF to PDF - rank

Kirm2

A quick question for those that know:

If a 2 star in the rdf is offered a place in the pdf do they keep the rank or do they have to start training all over again?

Thanks

mrsoundie

Firstly, what do you mean as offered a place?

If you applied for enlistment, and received the call up, then you go in as a Recruit and start at the bottom. You rank in the RDF is irrelevant.


Direct entry is only for advertised position as Doctor or similar.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit

Kirm2 wrote: »

A quick question for those that know:

If a 2 star in the rdf is offered a place in the pdf do they keep the rank or do they have to start training all over again?

Thanks

Thanks I needed that. That has really put a smile on my face.

Now I'm not having a go at you but 2 star training in the RDF is what 2 weeks with afew weekends here and there but in the PDF it's 17 weeks full time. (Open to correction here)

I don't see the equivalence somehow, I'd also keep being in the RDF fairly quite as well if you do make it into recruit training.

Nothing regulars love more, than being told how to do something they do for a living by someone who has spent a weekend learning about it with Combat and Survival as a reference text.

Ah youth

Doctor14

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit wrote: »

Now I'm not having a go at you but .....

Actually you are... and you are not being very subtle about it.

And the situation you describe - never ever seen or heard of it happening in my experience.

Mods, your call, but I think there is a bit of trolling here.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit

Doctor14 wrote: »

Actually you are... and you are not being very subtle about it.

And the situation you describe - never ever seen or heard of it happening in my experience.

Mods, your call, but I think there is a bit of trolling here.

Firstly, I don't intend to get into an online argument with you about reserve vs regular, so let that be clear form the start. Everyone plays a part

Secondly, if you think this is me being overly critical your already displaying to me quite what type of military experience you have.

Finally, implying I'm trolling to the mods, this is a forum to give advice and share some military related anecdotes if I am not mistaken. Tragic attitude to have, if you don't like what you read.

hiddenmongoose

Doctor14 wrote: »

And the situation you describe - never ever seen or heard of it happening in my experience.

the advice he gave is spot on ,and wasnt given in badness imo.
I even seen a young lad tell one of the instructors on the first morning when his parents were dropping him off that his lanyard was on the wrong shoulder as his rdf unit wore it on the other side?!!
we laughed at that one,he had a fun time on morning inspections.

galwaycyclist

Kirm2 wrote: »

A quick question for those that know:

If a 2 star in the rdf is offered a place in the pdf do they keep the rank or do they have to start training all over again?

Thanks

I believe it has happened in the past that members of the old FCA moved into the PDF. This would have been back in the 1970s when with crises that were going on some members of the FCA ended up being effectively activated full time.

At the moment the current model would be that an RDF member joining the PDF would go back to being a recruit.

Señor Fancy Pants

Doctor14 wrote: »

Actually you are... and you are not being very subtle about it.

And the situation you describe - never ever seen or heard of it happening in my experience.

Mods, your call, but I think there is a bit of trolling here.

I disagree.

I have experienced "ex RDF knowledge" first hand. I have no problem with active, professional RDF members, sure I was one myself. It's the idiots that turn up in PDF recruit platoons and think they know everything.

If someone turns up and knows their stuff, great! Help out the weaker lads in the Platoon. If they show up and incorrectly tell you that "you are wrong, this is the way we did it in the RDF", now that's something quite spectacular altogether.

Just to confirm other posts for the OP. In the past.....not recently. RDF members have transferred into full time service with the PDF and held their current rank. I believe that over the last 10 years, 2 doctors who served in the RDF managed to transfer into the PDF, exclusively for a tour of duty overseas. On return, were transferred back to the RDF.

As a 2 Star Private, you really don't know much. There are no benefits to the organisation to let you in at your current rank. Everyone in a Recruit Platoon starts as a Recruit, no matter what your experience is.

I have seen guys who had 2 or 3 years service in the PDF, leave and come back again a year or two later.......once again, starting as a Recruit.

Doctor14

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit wrote: »

Nothing regulars love more, than being told how to do something they do for a living by someone who has spent a weekend learning about it with Combat and Survival as a reference text./QUOTE]

Seems people misunderstood what I was taking offence to.

Never tried to equate RDF & PDF training, and don't want to start an PDF vs RDF bashing.
I took offence to the above part of the post. Never ever seen RDF telling PDF how to do their jobs and NEVER seen Combat & survival used as a reference text. Maybe I'm in a minority, only ever seen TMs, TIs, or TCs and assorted official publications used as reference documents but the above post was RDF bashing

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit wrote: »

Firstly, I don't intend to get into an online argument with you about reserve vs regular, so let that be clear form the start. Everyone plays a part

Actually, that is your intention. And it is clear that that is your intention. I have no intention to start PDF vs RDF bashing. I have not in anyway attempted to denigrate the PDF or to present the RDF as being in any way equivalent to the PDF.

mrsoundie

Truffle Pig wrote: »

I disagree.

I have experienced "ex RDF knowledge" first hand. I have no problem with active, professional RDF members, sure I was one myself. It's the idiots that turn up in PDF recruit platoons and think they know everything.

If someone turns up and knows their stuff, great! Help out the weaker lads in the Platoon. If they show up and incorrectly tell you that "you are wrong, this is the way we did it in the RDF", now that's something quite spectacular altogether.

Just to confirm other posts for the OP. In the past.....not recently. RDF members have transferred into full time service with the PDF and held their current rank. I believe that over the last 10 years, 2 doctors who served in the RDF managed to transfer into the PDF, exclusively for a tour of duty overseas. On return, were transferred back to the RDF.

As a 2 Star Private, you really don't know much. There are no benefits to the organisation to let you in at your current rank. Everyone in a Recruit Platoon starts as a Recruit, no matter what your experience is.

I have seen guys who had 2 or 3 years service in the PDF, leave and come back again a year or two later.......once again, starting as a Recruit.

The RDF (FCA) to PDF was from serving full time FCA which began in the early eighties. It was only in 1989 to 1990, that these personnel were given the option to either join the PDF and hold their rank or return to the FCA. They mostly decided to remain in the PDF.

IF you leave the PDF after completing your initial contract and there is an enlistment on at the time, you can return within twelve months you get back in without having to complete Recruit Training again. This may have changed recently.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit

Doctor14 wrote: »

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit wrote: »

Nothing regulars love more, than being told how to do something they do for a living by someone who has spent a weekend learning about it with Combat and Survival as a reference text./QUOTE]

Actually, that is your intention. And it is clear that that is your intention. I have no intention to start PDF vs RDF bashing. I have not in anyway attempted to denigrate the PDF or to present the RDF as being in any way equivalent to the PDF.

Combat and Survival, was a bit of humour. You know what humour is right?

I think the original posts question has been answered, so just because you have IMAGINED some 'insult' or covert RDF vs PDF being instigated I suggest you stop being so sensitive.

I couldn't even begin to understand your military perspective. But I bet every time the anti-bullying / health and safety lecture is given you take notes don't you

Señor Fancy Pants

Doctor14 wrote: »

Seems people misunderstood what I was taking offence to.
Never tried to equate RDF & PDF training, and don't want to start an PDF vs RDF bashing.
I took offence to the above part of the post. Never ever seen RDF telling PDF how to do their jobs and NEVER seen Combat & survival used as a reference text. Maybe I'm in a minority, only ever seen TMs, TIs, or TCs and assorted official publications used as reference documents but the above post was RDF bashing


Actually, that is your intention. And it is clear that that is your intention. I have no intention to start PDF vs RDF bashing. I have not in anyway attempted to denigrate the PDF or to present the RDF as being in any way equivalent to the PDF.

It's true that not everyone has the same experiences but I don't see Nemo's (sorry for shortalising your username Nemo) post as being RDF bashing. It may not be your personal experience of RDF guys telling PDF guys how to do the job, however, as an Instructor, it has happened to me. If I was in fact wrong there wouldn't be an issue. I will take correction from anyone but it was literally an ex Cpl from an RDF unit that thought he was the knowledge base on a subject where he had very limited exposure or training in. He went as far as going from room to room at night, talking to other Recruits and telling them to forget what you were taught today, this is actually how it's done.

As a 2 Star Private in the RDF, I know from my time there, that one day a week and a 2 week camp is not equatable to the current training of a PDF 2 Star Private. Once again, I agree with Nemo and think you are getting unnecessarily offended. It is factual comment that he made. Your interpretation of his comment is the problem.

And another point from my experience, as an ex FCA member myself.....Combat and Survival was once introduced as an aid in one of the lessons we were getting at the time. Purely for a specific article and NOT exclusively or routinely used as doctrine. I'm sure Nemo's post was just tongue in cheek to give people who aren't in the know, a brief distinction between RDF and PDF, not as a cheap dig.

Buuuuut, that's just my experience and opinion.

Señor Fancy Pants

mrsoundie wrote: »

The RDF (FCA) to PDF was from serving full time FCA which began in the early eighties. It was only in 1989 to 1990, that these personnel were given the option to either join the PDF and hold their rank or return to the FCA. They mostly decided to remain in the PDF.

Quite true.

mrsoundie wrote: »

IF you leave the PDF after completing your initial contract and there is an enlistment on at the time, you can return within twelve months you get back in without having to complete Recruit Training again. This may have changed recently.

I'm not sure how accurate that is. You might well be right, does that just come into play for if you don't sign on after your 5 year contract?

mrsoundie

Truffle Pig wrote: »

Quite true.



I'm not sure how accurate that is. You might well be right, does that just come into play for if you don't sign on after your 5 year contract?

I believe it is only after you leave on "Termination of Engagement", not 100% on that, but as for the rest it is true as a friend of mine only found out about the year limit, about ten days too late, had to go through Recruit Training again. :eek:

Manic Moran

[Mod]Lads, I'm not seeing anything that I think can reasonably cause offense here.[/mods]

I do wonder if there isn't something to be said for giving an RDF lad (or lass) at least a little credit when he transfers over, mind. I mean, an RDF corporal or sergeant may certainly still have to go through Recruit Training again for the PDF, I don't think anyone has huge issue with that, but knowledge and experience (which he -will- have to a degree higher than that of Joe off the street) is usually rewarded with pay and recognition in most jobs. Is there a reason that one should not go through recruit training whilst wearing rank and earning pay of a 3-Star, for example?
There is no -practical- reason that I'm aware of. I went through Basic Training as an E-4/Specialist, but despite my larger pay cheque, I still was treated as just another private, just one with a bit more experience. (Even addressed as such, I never thought it worthwhile standing upon principle and correcting a Drill Sergeant).

Maoltuile

Kirm2 wrote: »

A quick question for those that know:

If a 2 star in the rdf is offered a place in the pdf do they keep the rank or do they have to start training all over again?

Thanks

An old joke went that it would be explained to new bods in the FCÁ that the ranks go up to Commandant... and then the next rank up is PDF recruit. Draw your own conclusions :-)

arybvtcw0eolkf

Its simple (serving member here).

Regardless of rank if you go from the RDF into the PDF your contract with the RDF is terminated and you begin afresh in the PDF ~ new contract, army number & rank (recruit for enlisted & cadet for commissioned).

Forget the 90's and what happened back then, it doesn't happen any longer.

Manic to answer your question would almost be a new thread, you won't get too many serving members who'll post about it publically either (because you'd have to cover the differences in the various training blocks, then the competition for points to go towards further promotion etc ~ in an ever decreasing defense force the competition for promotion is fierce).