ESB Charge point installation Help

Gryphonboy

Hi there,

I've taken the plunge on a leaf and I now need to get the charge point installed. Esb eCars can't install the charge point in my house at the moment without some work being done to make the unit safe.

I live in the Belarmine estate and my house opens onto the public footpath which means that running a cable from the charge point to the car would create a tripping hazard. The solution they have proposed is that I get an extension from my home fitted under the footpath up to an endpoint with a mounting board next to my space. This will require an electrical contractor and to do some work that I will have to pay for.

Does anyone know of a good company to hire for this job? Also, does anyone know the contact details for the Belarmine management company, I will probably need to get permission to do any of this.

Markcheese

I was wondering about this as well - I live in a terrace cottage - 6 foot of pavement between cottage and where we park the car..
How big is the charger unit - is it suitable to place outdoors- or is a outdoor box available - (no problem with a trip hazard as it'd be sited next to 2 concrete steps (up to front door- ) and next to the fuse board /esb meter which is over the front door-

I had been thinking of just installing a covered gully in the footpath (council owned) and having some class of post at the roadside !

Gryphonboy

Markcheese wrote: »

I had been thinking of just installing a covered gully in the footpath (council owned) and having some class of post at the roadside !

This is what the eCars rep advised I would need.

Tefral

This is an odd one as there is a building element to this that most Electrical Contractors wouldnt take on.

What your better off doing is getting a building contractor to price it and get him to give you an all in price for the electrical. The electrical part any electrical contractor could do.

But seeing as your opening footpaths, your going to want to do it right so that things like Indemnity insurance and Public Liability insurance is in place.

Gryphonboy

I can't see this being the first time someone has had to do something like this, nor will it be the last as every house in my estate will have the same problem. So the question is what company should I approach to do it?

Markcheese

The electrical part is actually pretty minor - not much more than wiring a socket - there'd be more work in the building part - but it wouldn't be complex -
Armoured cable running through a gully or duct through the footpath - maybe coming up through a hollow stainless steel tube (or bollard ) bolted onto the path - with the correct waterproof socket in or on it .

Tefral

Gryphonboy wrote: »

I can't see this being the first time someone has had to do something like this, nor will it be the last as every house in my estate will have the same problem. So the question is what company should I approach to do it?

Would the ESB not tell you who they get to install them locally? If they were coming out to install the actual point anyway they might be inclined to cut you a deal.

Gryphonboy

cronin_j wrote: »

Would the ESB not tell you who they get to install them locally? If they were coming out to install the actual point anyway they might be inclined to cut you a deal.

You would think, but not as far as I could ascertain.

The Free home charge point includes the most basic of basic installs.

10 meters cable run and that's it. I had to run the cable myself to outside and he ran it the rest of the way, threw the cable over the shed roof rather than tack it. Wasn't impressed.

peposhi

OP, did you get it sorted?

homer911

Deleted User wrote: »

The Free home charge point includes the most basic of basic installs.

10 meters cable run and that's it. I had to run the cable myself to outside and he ran it the rest of the way, threw the cable over the shed roof rather than tack it. Wasn't impressed.

I had to retrofit my own ducting where the cable was run down the internal wall from the fuse box, installer had left the cable tacked to the wall with a few nails/plastic hooks - not very pretty!

Gryphonboy

peposhi wrote: »

OP, did you get it sorted?

No Still waiting on a quote from the builders. Feckers are slower than molasses.

reboot

Gryphonboy wrote: »

I can't see this being the first time someone has had to do something like this, nor will it be the last as every house in my estate will have the same problem. So the question is what company should I approach to do it?

I believe Joe Mc Carthy also works out of Dublin, he did a fine 32A job for me. His company is MCC. Can be found on the Ecarni.com site. http://www.ecarni.com/project/faqs.aspx

reboot

Markcheese wrote: »

I was wondering about this as well - I live in a terrace cottage - 6 foot of pavement between cottage and where we park the car..
How big is the charger unit - is it suitable to place outdoors- or is a outdoor box available - (no problem with a trip hazard as it'd be sited next to 2 concrete steps (up to front door- ) and next to the fuse board /esb meter which is over the front door-

I had been thinking of just installing a covered gully in the footpath (council owned) and having some class of post at the roadside !

May be of interest?
https://evconnectors.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=62196-2&product_id=115

pwurple

reboot wrote: »

I believe Joe Mc Carthy also works out of Dublin, he did a fine 32A job for me. His company is MCC. Can be found on the Ecarni.com site. http://www.ecarni.com/project/faqs.aspx

How much was the 32A install, roughly?

Do you need the 6.6kw unit on the car to take advantage of that, or is it the same connection as the fast public chargers?

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

How much was the 32A install, roughly?

Do you need the 6.6kw unit on the car to take advantage of that, or is it the same connection as the fast public chargers?

Don't know about the cost, the ESB refused to allow me the 32 amp home EVSE

Yes you need the 32 amp charger in the Leaf to take advantage of the 32 amp supply.

The fast chargers are roughly 48-50 Kw but I've never seen the Leaf request more than 48 kw from the charger. The charger itself will pull 50 kw from the mains for a short period but not the car because the charger isn't 100% efficient.

By about 50% the Leaf pulls roughly 30Kw and by 80% about 6-7 Kw so it can take longer to get from 80-100% than 0-80%.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't know about the cost, the ESB refused to allow me the 32 amp home EVSE

Rolec, Chargemaster and Podpoint all charge exactly the same for their 16 amp and 32 amp chargers. So, when paying for the charger yourself there is no reason to buy the 16amp.

There is a 32A pod point charger available on Adverts for €399: http://www.adverts.ie/other/podpoint-7kw-home-charging-for-ev/7687992

Installation can be done by any competent electrician, same as fitting an outside socket (with some care taken to ensure breakers and cable is sufficient for 32A draw for up to 8 hours). Should cost less than €200 for any but the most complex installs.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes you need the 32 amp charger in the Leaf to take advantage of the 32 amp supply..

Well, it works just the same but a 3.3kw charger equipped leaf won't draw more than 15 amps. If you don't have a 6.6kw Leaf, It's still worth buying a 32amp charger for the futureproofing, after all the price difference is nil*.
Unless you get a tethered charger (which I strongly advise against), the charger will have a Type 2 socket, same as the public chargers.

* => well..... you may have to spend €3-4/meter more on 3x8 power cable instead of 3x6. But you should be using 3x8 anyway.

Dexter1979

cros13 wrote: »

Unless you get a tethered charger (which I strongly advise against), the charger will have a Type 2 socket, same as the public chargers

Why would you advice against a tethered charger? Convenience of one is great and I wish I had one. No fumbling in the boot in the pouring rain for a charge cable.

Only somewhat valid reason I can see to NOT get a tethered charger is if you are worried that the plug on your next car may be different.

reboot

pwurple wrote: »

How much was the 32A install, roughly?

Do you need the 6.6kw unit on the car to take advantage of that, or is it the same connection as the fast public chargers?

The Renault deal on EVs includes a free 32A home CP,worth around 1500 GBP,fitted.Its only a UK deal so far I think but as more Zoe appear in the South,who knows.The Zoe seems to accept a charge from any CP I have asked it to, However a man may be along soon to correct this.

cros13

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Why would you advice against a tethered charger? Convenience of one is great and I wish I had one. No fumbling in the boot in the pouring rain for a charge cable.

Only somewhat valid reason I can see to NOT get a tethered charger is if you are worried that the plug on your next car may be different.

The cable is the most vulnerable part from a reliability perspective. It’s out in all conditions and often the copper inside the cable can become brittle. Tethered public chargers in the US and UK require three times the maintenance call outs as Type 2 socket equivalents.
If your cable goes on a home EVSE, the repair will cost you a substantial portion of the cost of the charger.

It’s almost certain that your next EV will use Type 2 instead of J1772 (which after all is an american standard). The type 2 connector is superior, with a more rugged design, ability to provide DC / Multi-phase power and high amperage.
Everyone has a cable for a Type 2 socket because it’s what the public chargers use. If you don't want to go to the trouble of removing it from your car… just buy a short cable that you can leave connected.

I'm also worried about businesses who are fitting their own chargers fitting J1772 tethered chargers because this is either what was recommended to them or sold to them by an installer. The hotel next door to me has a J1772 tethered and the staff hate it. They have had several EVs show up (assured on the phone that they would be able to charge) unable to connect, and the staff don't want the hassle anymore.
Irish ferries have the same issue. They fitted J1772 tethered pod point chargers to some of their ferries and have had multiple complaints from Model S, Zoe and i3 owners.

Personally I came across the problem so often that I have an illegal adapter from J1772 to type 2 that is fairly dangerous as it's not weatherproof and bypasses some of the safety mechanisms.

reboot

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Why would you advice against a tethered charger? Convenience of one is great and I wish I had one. No fumbling in the boot in the pouring rain for a charge cable.

Only somewhat valid reason I can see to NOT get a tethered charger is if you are worried that the plug on your next car may be different.

Agreed Dexter,but I believe we are talking type 2, and as usual singing from the same hymn sheet.

TBi

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. When they say fuse board on the form do they mean the internal fuse board or the white ESB box on outside wall with the meter?

stesaurus

TBi wrote: »

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. When they say fuse board on the form do they mean the internal fuse board or the white ESB box on outside wall with the meter?

Internal board

mckildare

OP or anyone else, did you ever get this priced up? In the same situation ourselves and by the sounds of the hassle involved, we'll have to choose between an Ioniq Hybrid or Plugin Hybrid. Now just waiting on the release of info for the latter. Won't be buying until next year anyway but doing my research now to see how it changes in the next 6-9 months. Fingers crossed it's cheaper

punisher5112

mckildare wrote: »

OP or anyone else, did you ever get this priced up? In the same situation ourselves and by the sounds of the hassle involved, we'll have to choose between an Ioniq Hybrid or Plugin Hybrid. Now just waiting on the release of info for the latter. Won't be buying until next year anyway but doing my research now to see how it changes in the next 6-9 months. Fingers crossed it's cheaper

Installation is free of outside charger still.

If electric will suit don't let the installation if cost extra put you off.

mckildare

punisher5112 wrote: »

Installation is free of outside charger still.

If electric will suit don't let the installation if cost extra put you off.

Having to find/obtain permission and organise the digging up of a public footpath whilst still trying to convince the wife that an EV is a good idea is very off-putting unfortunately . I'll get on to ecars but I expect they'll give the same answer as to the OP. If I can get a ballpark figure and what it takes in the meantime that would be very beneficial to know the largest hurdle of this plan

unkel

mckildare wrote: »

we'll have to choose between an Ioniq Hybrid or Plugin Hybrid.

There's very little point in plugging in a plugin. The benefits are tiny. Is there any reason you are not considering the Ioniq EV?

mckildare

unkel wrote: »

There's very little point in plugging in a plugin. The benefits are tiny. Is there any reason you are not considering the Ioniq EV?

For the reasons above - digging up a public footpath etc etc while at the same time trying to change my wife's opinion (range concerns/charging methods) when she does most of the car driving and generally has the car. Those I know who have EV's haven't had this installation issue so if I can learn the solution to this obstacle then I'm a step closer.

The simple switch to an EV is not there at the moment, not yet!

KCross

mckildare wrote: »

OP or anyone else, did you ever get this priced up? In the same situation ourselves and by the sounds of the hassle involved, we'll have to choose between an Ioniq Hybrid or Plugin Hybrid. Now just waiting on the release of info for the latter. Won't be buying until next year anyway but doing my research now to see how it changes in the next 6-9 months. Fingers crossed it's cheaper

Without the charge point being installed the plugin hybrid isn't worth it to you.

The whole point of the plugin hybrid is that you have it fully charged each day. If you don't it will give you very poor mpg.

If you can get the chargepoint resolved then consider full EV before the PHEV.

Excluding the occasional long journey, what is your max daily distance?

unkel

mckildare wrote: »

trying to change my wife's opinion (range concerns/charging methods)

Pretty much all of us have been there

A 24h test drive where she can do a lot of the driving and maybe a 10 minute fast charge (with your help) will make it a lot easier. Trust me.

mckildare

Daily distance 4 days a week is about 62km. Weekend driving varies but most of the time is < 100km in general

KCross

mckildare wrote: »

Daily distance 4 days a week is about 62km. Weekend driving varies but most of the time is < 100km in general

Any EV will cover that for you. You don't need a PHEV.

If it were me I'd go hybrid if you can't get the charge point sorted or else EV if you can.

mckildare

KCross wrote: »

Any EV will cover that for you. You don't need a PHEV.

If it were me I'd go hybrid if you can't get the charge point sorted or else EV if you can.

Feel free to come tell my wife that :pac:

KCross

mckildare wrote: »

Feel free to come tell my wife that :pac:

A 2-3 day test drive is what she needs.

Definitely don't go PHEV anyway unless you have a charge point.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

The cable is the most vulnerable part from a reliability perspective. It’s out in all conditions and often the copper inside the cable can become brittle. Tethered public chargers in the US and UK require three times the maintenance call outs as Type 2 socket equivalents.
If your cable goes on a home EVSE, the repair will cost you a substantial portion of the cost of the charger.

It’s almost certain that your next EV will use Type 2 instead of J1772 (which after all is an american standard). The type 2 connector is superior, with a more rugged design, ability to provide DC / Multi-phase power and high amperage.
Everyone has a cable for a Type 2 socket because it’s what the public chargers use. If you don't want to go to the trouble of removing it from your car… just buy a short cable that you can leave connected.

I'm also worried about businesses who are fitting their own chargers fitting J1772 tethered chargers because this is either what was recommended to them or sold to them by an installer. The hotel next door to me has a J1772 tethered and the staff hate it. They have had several EVs show up (assured on the phone that they would be able to charge) unable to connect, and the staff don't want the hassle anymore.
Irish ferries have the same issue. They fitted J1772 tethered pod point chargers to some of their ferries and have had multiple complaints from Model S, Zoe and i3 owners.

Personally I came across the problem so often that I have an illegal adapter from J1772 to type 2 that is fairly dangerous as it's not weatherproof and bypasses some of the safety mechanisms.

Let's just knock this nonsense on its head

I have a type 1 tethered charger. After one year of continuous 6 day week use there is ZERO wear on the cable junction at the entry gland ZERO.

Hence for home chargers this is simply not a factor

Secondly there is no such thing as an " illegal " type 1 to type 2 cable converter , other then CE its not a subject of any law.

The type 2 conventional plug is no more or no less robust then the type 1. I have both plugs on my workshop.

If you need to subsequently convert from typeb1 to type 2. The cable /plug will cost about 100 euros and prices are falling all the time

It's simply not an issue

I'm getting out the pop corn this thread is about to get a bit entertaining, come on lads give me a good O'l entertaining evening, the weather is crap !

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm getting out the pop corn this thread is about to get a bit entertaining, come on lads give me a good O'l entertaining evening, the weather is crap !

EV's are crap.

Calahonda52

kceire wrote: »

EV's are crap.

PHEV's are super-crap, and that a fact, not a fake fact, a fact:D

Gumbo

Calahonda52 wrote: »

PHEV's are super-crap, and that a fact, not a fake fact, a fact:D

So kinda news, not fake news, but fake fake news, which makes it fact.

Yeah I'm getting you Honda

ELM327

Calahonda52 wrote: »

PHEV's are super-crap, and that a fact, not a fake fact, a fact:D

At last something I can agree with

zilog_jones

unkel wrote: »

There's very little point in plugging in a plugin. The benefits are tiny.

It really depends on how much of your driving can be covered by your EV range. I'm using about 30% less fuel with my Prius PHV compared to the standard 3rd gen Prius average, with about 30-40% of my driving done in EV mode.

KCross wrote: »

Without the charge point being installed the plugin hybrid isn't worth it to you.

This. You need to be charging daily to get any real benefits, otherwise it's hard to justify the extra cost.

The whole point of the plugin hybrid is that you have it fully charged each day. If you don't it will give you very poor mpg.

I don't know much about the Ioniq PHEV (any sold here yet?) but it should return fuel economy similar to the standard Ioniq Hybrid. It's still an efficient aerodynamic car with an Atkinson cycle engine, unlike some Mickey Mouse PHEVs out there.

Jeditraining1

The IEVOA haven't a clue poor chaps... but there you go right there :-)

BoatMad

low range PHEVS are super crap. Once you factor in a pricing regime at public chargers , ( likely too be at least or more then diesel ) and the cost of a home charger, any savings go straight out the window

zilog_jones

Nah.

I spent €250 less on my current car in one year compared to my previous diesel, even though I drove 5000 km more in that year (all costs - including fuel, electricity, tax, servicing, etc.). The savings made in one year more than make up for the expense of a home charger installation - which in my case I didn't need (13A socket fine for the 10A charger on my car).

For public charging, it didn't make financial sense for me to even buy a Type 1 -> Type 2 cable, but I got one anyway. I probably use public chargers <5% of the time.

ELM327

What do you drive, is it the "taxlander" or another one?

zilog_jones

Prius Plug-in, one of 5 in the country

I don't get all the Outlander hate around here - there are no BEV options in that segment (Model X doesn't count :P) and it can tow (most hybrids and BEVs can't, or are at least not approved). If you want to get away from diesels and can make effective use of the EV range, it seems like a good choice.

Any misuse of public chargers is not a fault of the car.

Ballylad

I will be getting my Ionic ev in next couple of weeks so am looking for advice on the ESB home charger installation:
I have pre ordered a Zappi charger that has the capacity to divert all/excess electricity to charge ev as well as charge up to 7kw normally, this will have a 6A to 32A current charge.
Is it best to get ESB to install a normal charger first with 32A cable to charger... can this be done and will it cost extra?
Or, Get ESB contractor to install the Zappi charger, will they keep the intended charger (could keep it for future installation elsewhere), would they charge extra for installing this type of charger?, dont know much about cable specifications etc, any info appreciated

stesaurus

Ballylad wrote: »

I will be getting my Ionic ev in next couple of weeks so am looking for advice on the ESB home charger installation:
I have pre ordered a Zappi charger that has the capacity to divert all/excess electricity to charge ev as well as charge up to 7kw normally, this will have a 6A to 32A current charge.
Is it best to get ESB to install a normal charger first with 32A cable to charger... can this be done and will it cost extra?
Or, Get ESB contractor to install the Zappi charger, will they keep the intended charger (could keep it for future installation elsewhere), would they charge extra for installing this type of charger?, dont know much about cable specifications etc, any info appreciated

I'd say get eCars to install elsewhere and do your own install at home. Parents house etc. handy for visiting.
You'll have to pay extra for the cabling and breaker anyway so may as well let them do a standard install for free somewhere else you might find handy.

Incidentally, why the Zappi? Will the Ioniq be at home during the day?

Ballylad

Thanks, was thinking more in  terms of selling the ecars charger to recoup some of cost of zappi,
 Ionic will be home after school runs, used mostly in evenings and odd trip to dublin at night shift, will just have it plugged in when at home to divert any excess electricity produced, have 5kw pv installation, have heat pump running during peak PV production during summer and on night rate rest of time, heat pump uses up to 4kw, my supply is 16kw so need to seperate heat pump and ev charging times.
What do i need to tell them to install for up to 32A charge?

stesaurus

6sq seems to be enough for the cable and an RCBO rated for probably 40a but you'll have to ask nicely and probably pay extra to eCars to do both. Let them install their unit and you can switch out later yourself or more likely your electrician as he'll be needed to connect into your PV. eCars won't do that. You'll have a leftover, Abl EVSE unit most likely, probably worth 200-300 realistically.
Oh and it's Ioniq, not Ionic! You'll be driving it so you should know how to spell it

Best of luck anyway!

Calahonda52

zilog_jones wrote: »

Any misuse of public chargers is not a fault of the car.

Charlton Heston-esque; no such thing as bad guns, just bad people:D