TD Expenses

HappyBalance

Hi All,

Was wondering why we cannot get a breakdown of TD expenses under the FOI? any ideas as to why?

conorh91

The obvious (and admittedly circular) answer is because Brendan Howlin hasn't made it a requirement.

Why? Maybe because it would be a large administrative burden.

There are audited reports for selected officeholders' expenses.

Here's the audit for 2013. Scroll down to see results for individual officeholders' compliance and repayments where appropriate.
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/main/documentation/Overall-Auditors-Report-%28incl-members-reports%29.pdf

hfallada

I dont why Irish people are fixated on TD pay and expenses. We have national debt of a whopping €182.33 Billion and people are concerned with their local TDs expenses of a few thousands. Some independent might make TD expenses an issue for a few days in the dail, to get a few mins on RTE news. But there are far more important financial issues that need to be discussed in Ireland, than what TDs are spending.

You can see what TD total expenses are. But I doubt we need to hire a few people in the dail to calculate TD expenses for the public to see. When TDs probably wont change their spending patterns at all

expectationlost

hfallada wrote: »

I dont why Irish people are fixated on TD pay and expenses. We have national debt of a whopping €182.33 Billion and people are concerned with their local TDs expenses of a few thousands. Some independent might make TD expenses an issue for a few days in the dail, to get a few mins on RTE news. But there are far more important financial issues that need to be discussed in Ireland, than what TDs are spending.

You can see what TD total expenses are. But I doubt we need to hire a few people in the dail to calculate TD expenses for the public to see. When TDs probably wont change their spending patterns at all

its not something I get het up about, but i think if a TD is fiddling their expenses I don't fancy them legislating around our finances (to whatever degree then have control of them), plus many TD make a point of commentating on and criticising spending by welfare recipients etc so they deserve scrutiny in their payments.

expectationlost

HappyBalance wrote: »

Hi All,

Was wondering why we cannot get a breakdown of TD expenses under the FOI? any ideas as to why?

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/tdssenators/salariesallowances/
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/tdssenators/parliamentarystandardallowance/

but what conorh91 said

but I don't buy the admin reason, companies do it don't they, its worth it for the reassurance

hfallada

expectationlost wrote: »

if a TD is fiddling their expenses I don't fancy them legislating around our finances (to whatever degree then have control of them), plus many TD make a pint of criticising spending by welfare recipients so they deserve scrutiny in their payments.

Fraud by TD is probably in the tens of thousands per year. Fraud with social welfare recipients is in the hundreds of millions. Only so much resources can be allocated a year. There is no point wasting them on a non-issue like TD expenses.

The last thing we need is a 2/3 week debate on TD expenses when there is far more important issues to discuss in the dail

expectationlost

hfallada wrote: »

Fraud by TD is probably in the tens of thousands per year. Fraud with social welfare recipients is in the hundreds of millions. Only so much resources can be allocated a year. There is no point wasting them on a non-issue like TD expenses.

The last thing we need is a 2/3 week debate on TD expenses when there is far more important issues to discuss in the dail

TDs are national legislators who have, to a limited degree, influence over millions or in Minister cases billions, they have far more power then your average welfare recipient, thats the difference.

hfallada

hfallada wrote: »

I dont why Irish people are fixated on TD pay and expenses. We have national debt of a whopping €182.33 Billion and people are concerned with their local TDs expenses of a few thousands. Some independent might make TD expenses an issue for a few days in the dail, to get a few mins on RTE news. But there are far more important financial issues that need to be discussed in Ireland, than what TDs are spending.

We are well able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Temptation loves an opportunity. That's why the architecture of an advanced society is hinged on systematic transparency. Most of it (televised parliamentary sittings, committee work, independent audits) is taken for granted, but this transparency separates us from those squalid African statelets where transparency always yields to pressing needs, i.e. 'look over there!', 'one crisis at a time!', 'the money was only resting in my account!'.

Floppybits

hfallada wrote: »

Fraud by TD is probably in the tens of thousands per year. Fraud with social welfare recipients is in the hundreds of millions. Only so much resources can be allocated a year. There is no point wasting them on a non-issue like TD expenses.

The last thing we need is a 2/3 week debate on TD expenses when there is far more important issues to discuss in the dail

Of course their expenses should be scrutinized and made public after all they are being paid by the Public and we should be make sure we are not being ripped off. If I claim expenses as part of my work I have to account for the every penny that I am claiming for, I dont see why this should be any different for politicians. If the claims are legit then fine but if they are not then the same sanctions that apply to every other work in this country should also apply to them.

Stabshauptmann

Ugh, for me its just easier not to - people are idiots. It's annoying enough to hear people who dont understand economics talk about putting a tax on one side of a transaction only, or idiots using results based thinking to say the occurrence of an outlier "proves" a decision was wrong.

I dont want ink wasted, or time mis used so idiots can get up on soap boxes and moan about expenses. TDs salaries and incomes are not very high.

There should be checks and balances; but that does not extent to satisfying the petty curiosity of the mob. My employer has a finance function that checks my expenses claims against our published policy. Why should my neighbour see my payslip?

Son Of A Vidic

HappyBalance wrote: »

Was wondering why we cannot get a breakdown of TD expenses under the FOI? any ideas as to why?

Because in Ireland an exercise in political tokenism, wouldn't stand up to such scrutiny.

conorh91

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

There should be checks and balances; but that does not extent to satisfying the petty curiosity of the mob. My employer has a finance function that checks my expenses claims against our published policy. Why should my neighbour see my payslip?

Because you have an employer, you answer to that employer. Your status is in no way comparable to a constitutional office-holder.

TDs are nobody's employee. They regulate their own salaries and their own systems of expenses, which they take from the Exchequer. They make the laws. They have enormous influence.

In such a unique situation, the presumption should always be in favour of transparency, especially where taxpayers' own money is at stake, with the exception of circumstances where sufficient reason can negate the interests of transparency.

There seems to be no sufficiently strong reason for hiding the expenses claimed by members of the Houses of the Oireachtas. Some waffle about neighbours and payslips, and unilateral taxes on transactions (whatever that was supposed to be relevant to…) don't seem like valid arguments.