Buyer wants to export DOE Failure

cormie

Hey,
I'm selling a Ford Transit at the moment which I've had great use from, but failed the last DOE quite miserably so it's time to get rid.

I've had 2 calls so far from people who want to buy it for export, both to countries where I imagine vehicle testing is non existent. The van starts fine, the clutch, gears, brakes etc all seem fine and to drive it, you wouldn't think anything is wrong with it, but if the DOE failed it so badly, and the DOE is somewhat of a safety measure, then the thought of it being driven full time elsewhere isn't very reassuring.

On the other hand, it could be perfectly fine for city use and on unpaved roads where nobody is going to be getting it up to anywhere near full speed.

Would anyone be hesitant to sell it to somebody who wanted to buy it for export? Am I over thinking this and I should just sell it if the price is right? Any other precautions to be aware of?

Any feedback appreciated

mickdw

One problem is that you have to hand over the logbook if being sold for export.
Apart from that, cash sales, honestly described - It's not your problem after that

colm_mcm

You can be sure the van won't be taken out of your name though.
I wouldn't be happy with that tbh.

CiniO

cormie wrote: »

Hey,
I'm selling a Ford Transit at the moment which I've had great use from, but failed the last DOE quite miserably so it's time to get rid.

What did it fail on - in short?

I've had 2 calls so far from people who want to buy it for export, both to countries where I imagine vehicle testing is non existent. The van starts fine, the clutch, gears, brakes etc all seem fine and to drive it, you wouldn't think anything is wrong with it, but if the DOE failed it so badly, and the DOE is somewhat of a safety measure, then the thought of it being driven full time elsewhere isn't very reassuring.

Where would it be driven? Where's the buyer from?

On the other hand, it could be perfectly fine for city use and on unpaved roads where nobody is going to be getting it up to anywhere near full speed.


Would anyone be hesitant to sell it to somebody who wanted to buy it for export? Am I over thinking this and I should just sell it if the price is right? Any other precautions to be aware of?

Any feedback appreciated

If there is buyer and willing to pay cash then you'd be stupid to refuse the offer.
What someone is driving somewhere else, is not really your concern. If you refuse to sell it, buyer will get one from someone else.

Question is - what is actually so badly wrong with it, as you said it starts and drives fine?
And where is the buyer from?

slimjimmc

If the buyer is outside the country, doesn't haggle on the asking price, etc etc it'll almost certainly be a scam.

cormie

Never knew about the van not being taken out of my name if I sell it for export, is there any way around that, or a proper way to approach it?

Cinio, click the link in the OP, it takes you to the advert page where all faults and fail items are described

CiniO

mickdw wrote: »

One problem is that you have to hand over the logbook if being sold for export.
Apart from that, cash sales, honestly described - It's not your problem after that

colm_mcm wrote: »

You can be sure the van won't be taken out of your name though.
I wouldn't be happy with that tbh.

So you are saying that it's not good idea to sell vehicle for export, as there is no system of vehicle deregistration in such case in Ireland.

I wouldn't be worried about selling to foreign buyer at all. Sign a contract of sale with him (two copies) and hand him VLC.
If there's any major problem (f.e. vehicle used for crime or speeding fines etc) you just refuse to accept it was you and show the contract that you sold vehicle and followed correct procedure of selling to foreign buyer by giving him logbook.
I don't believe this wouldn't be enough in any court.

As well have a look at UK. There's so many cars being exported from UK to Ireland, and they suffer from exactly same problem and somehow they are not hesitant to sell to Irish people.

I'd say no risk at all by selling to foreign buyer and giving him logbook, assuming you have some written confirmation you actually sold it to him signed by him. (as I said contract of sale preferably).

cormie

Last caller lives in Drogheda and would be exporting to Africa, he would be collecting and I won't be taking anything other than cash.

Even if it's cash and he takes it away on a recovery truck, is there any further protection I can have? The log book staying in my name is definitely not good news.

CiniO

cormie wrote: »

Never knew about the van not being taken out of my name if I sell it for export, is there any way around that, or a proper way to approach it?

It is taken off your name, once it's registered in country of destination - as they should send relevant info to Shannon.
But you can inform Shannon yourself that you sold car for export and handed over logbook to buyer and send them copy of contract of sale you signed with buyer.

Cinio, click the link in the OP, it takes you to the advert page where all faults and fail items are described

Thanks, didn't think about it

colm_mcm

You're selling to some randomer without putting it into anyone's name. That's where the Problem is for me.
Just cos they say they'll export it, doesn't mean they will. If buyer isn't a registered trader and doesn't do an RF105, who knows where the van will end up.

CiniO

colm_mcm wrote: »

You're selling to some randomer without putting it into anyone's name. That's where the Problem is for me.
Just cos they say they'll export it, doesn't mean they will. If buyer isn't a registered trader and doesn't do an RF105, who knows where the van will end up.

That's why you should get buyer to say it in writing that he is not resident in Ireland, has address outside the country and is going to export this vehicle.
All this should be signed by him.

slimjimmc

cormie wrote: »

Last caller lives in Drogheda and would be exporting to Africa, he would be collecting and I won't be taking anything other than cash.

Even if it's cash and he takes it away on a recovery truck, is there any further protection I can have? The log book staying in my name is definitely not good news.

Then you're not exporting it he is. Just do the change of ownership as normal and put it in his name, let him wait for the new VRC from Shannon. Have the cash checked at a bank too. Be aware that banks drafts are not secure.

colm_mcm

CiniO wrote: »

That's why you should get buyer to say it in writing that he is not resident in Ireland, has address outside the country and is going to export this vehicle.
All this should be signed by him.

Yer man lives in drogheda though.

Thus is basically the same as "cash for cars".

cormie

slimjimmc wrote: »

Then you're not exporting it he is. Just do the change of ownership as normal and put it in his name, let him wait for the new VRC from Shannon. Have the cash checked at a bank too.

I was just going to ask about doing just this, I just sell as normal, fill in his details, keep log book and send it to Shannon myself and he can just wait until it's back in his name and do what he wants with it then.

Is holding the money up to the sun not good enough?

CiniO

cormie wrote: »

Cinio, click the link in the OP, it takes you to the advert page where all faults and fail items are described

I had a look.
Doesn't really look bad tbh.
I know Irish prices of labour are expensive and possibly it's not worth fixing it in Ireland as cost would be greater that the value, but nearly everywhere else it's cheaper to fix vehicles, especially Africa

I'm sure it would make economical sense to export it even to Poland.
Cost wouldn't be too bad there:

Fail Items:
1) Windscreen Wipers not cleaning effectively - €6
2) Side lamps front/offside not clearly visible - €15
3) Bodywork middle/offside rusted through - €30
4) Bodywork middle/nearside rusted through - €30
5) Chassis rear/outer cracked - €40
6) Chassis rear/ inner cracked - €40
7) Front suspension ball joints front/offside rubber gaiter split - €25
8) Shock absorber(s) rear/nearside obvious leak - €50
9) Exhaust pipe rear serious leaks - €15
10) Exhaust pipe rear badly mounted - €10
11) Rear springs bump stop removed - €5
12) Clutch pedal anti-slip provision worn smooth - €5

That would be my thinking what it could cost in Poland to repair. Total of €270
On top of that probably €1000 to convert to LHD.
Cost of shipping from Ireland to Poland - €500
And cost of purchase from you - €1000
Total of €2770

That gives you reasonable van, while if you wanted to buy something similar you'd need to pay at least €1000 more in there in Poland.

CiniO

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yer man lives in drogheda though.

Thus is basically the same as "cash for cars".

Yea, in that case it's different.
If selling to Irish resident, just do normal sign on logbook.

K.Flyer

A couple of years ago I did something similar. (Blown engine)
Buyer asked me for the book to export it and I said no. Took his details from his licence and told him when he gets the book back he can do what he likes with it.
I filled out the book, already had a bill of sale made up which stated that the vehicle was not roadworthy and that it was being sold with no warranty given or implied and that the buyer accepts that the vehicle has defects seen and unseen. 2 copies Dated timed signed by each etc etc. Cash only deal and he towed it away.

Atlantic Dawn

If your man lives here transfer it in to his name, he will then have the logbook in his name, can do what he wants with it. I wouldn't hand the logbook over to anyone no matter what plans they had for it.

cormie

Interesting break down of costs there, I think I'm just going to insist on filling in an Irish address and sending the log book off myself. Thanks for the input everyone

CiniO

cormie wrote: »

Interesting break down of costs there, I think I'm just going to insist on filling in an Irish address and sending the log book off myself. Thanks for the input everyone

That's the correct procedure
If buyer is resident in Ireland, then fill in the logbook and send it to shannon.
If buyer is resident abroad, then hand in logbook.

It's the official way of selling vehicles in Ireland.

ScouseMouse

Send off the log book to shannon but write out a receipt clearly saying "unroadworthy - for spares or repair" signed by both parties.

K.Flyer

CiniO wrote: »

That's the correct procedure
If buyer is resident in Ireland, then fill in the logbook and send it to shannon.
If buyer is resident abroad, then hand in logbook.

It's the official way of selling vehicles in Ireland.

Buyer could be living here, but not "resident" here. Best to fill out the book with his current address in Ireland and send it to Shannon.
You don't want to find out the hard way that your reg was stuck onto a clone and sold on in your name.

colm_mcm

I wouldn't care what they did with it as long as it was transferred out if my name.

cormie

I guess it wouldn't be much of a concern with export, but I was thinking he may not want it in his name to have one less owner on it, but I'll insist either way, I'm not going to do anything with the log book other than sending it to Shannon, the receipt idea is good too

colm_mcm

Number of owners won't be an issue if its being exported.

colm_mcm

Great video about exported European trucks

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10vy3h_risking-it-all-dr-congo_news

cormie

Just another question in the same vein, is there any risk to selling to somebody with no fixed abode and can anyone offer any advice on what to do in such a deal? If they make up an address and have ulterior motives for the usage of the van, where do I stand? Is it just a case of getting some kind of name, address and signature on the log book, getting the cash and giving the keys or is there any other precautions to take and would anyone here be hesitant to sell it to somebody who they suspect may not have a fixed address etc?

gctest50

If it's a DOE failure with serious faults ( brakes, cracked chassis etc ) you might want to get it taken away on a transporter

too easy for someone to pay you, drive it away , stick it to the nearest wall and claim all sorts of things

goz83

cormie wrote: »

Just another question in the same vein, is there any risk to selling to somebody with no fixed abode and can anyone offer any advice on what to do in such a deal? If they make up an address and have ulterior motives for the usage of the van, where do I stand? Is it just a case of getting some kind of name, address and signature on the log book, getting the cash and giving the keys or is there any other precautions to take and would anyone here be hesitant to sell it to somebody who they suspect may not have a fixed address etc?

If completing the logbook, the person will have some address it can be registered to. A friend, a family member or whatever. Logbooks are currently arriving within a week of sending it off to Shannon, which is pretty good.

If you were ok to give the logbook, there is a simple way to secure proof of sale. Use a sale of contract. It is not necessary to point out defects, as it is a private sale and the buyer has no comeback anyway. Take a photo of the buyers license. It means you won't be hit with tolls or speeding fines.

I very often take the logbook with me when buying a car. I tell the seller to take a picture of my license and i give them a prepared sale note, with my details on it. I give them a business card too, for their own peace of mind. I do this mainly because sellers forget to send the logbook off, or I might be doing light restoration work to sell the car on and don't want to wait for logbook, which has been known to take over a month.

Atlantic Dawn

cormie wrote: »

Just another question in the same vein, is there any risk to selling to somebody with no fixed abode and can anyone offer any advice on what to do in such a deal? If they make up an address and have ulterior motives for the usage of the van, where do I stand? Is it just a case of getting some kind of name, address and signature on the log book, getting the cash and giving the keys or is there any other precautions to take and would anyone here be hesitant to sell it to somebody who they suspect may not have a fixed address etc?

You have no responsibility to verify the address details are genuine that they give you, if they provide an address of 123 Madeup Street, Dublin 32, that's not your problem. I would try to get the logbook in the post as quick as possible.

cormie

Thanks for the replies folks. I'll write up a sale agreement stating that it has been advised that the vehicle is not road worthy and should be towed away after sale and that it is being sold as is with all known defects described and can not be returned or refunded.

If nobody sees any issue with selling it to somebody who has no fixed address even though the vehicle may be used unlawfully after sale (driven home as is etc or possibly worse) and that I should just take what I can get for it and hope I don't get anyone coming back to me should it give any trouble, or pretending it's giving trouble, with threatening behaviour, then I might just go for it