The One That Got Away: Moral Crisis

LegacyUser

Feeling pretty awful the last while,

Going to drop this story, I let a great girl slip through my fingers a while back, met her on a night out and we hit it off, we had a few drinks the night we met and we kissed, the next day she text me saying she liked me but didn’t want me to get the wrong idea and she wanted to stay friends and nothing more, I was a bit gutted as we had such a good time but I respected what she wanted and we became good friends and hung out a few times over the next while, talked about all sorts, went for drinks and to the cinema a few times but in my mind they weren’t dates and I respected that I was in the friend zone which seems to always happen to me and when that happens I don’t make any effort to woo whoever I take a shine to because in my experience it never got me anywhere with anyone, I didn’t want to grovel pathetically and make a fool of myself if she clearly had no interest in me and reading the signs (if she was giving off any) isn’t my strong point.

So a few months later I decided to move on I got with someone else, she was lovely and had qualities I liked, she more or less won me over with her story. Turned out her younger brother died through suicide recently at the time, she lives in a really isolated part of the country and didn’t see her friends that often and she was having a tough time in college, I thought she was great, admirable, timid and she was cute and we got together. I was with this girl a few weeks before the other girl who friend zoned me texts me out of the blue and said she had feelings for me and she said she was sorry to drop it on me because I was with someone else. Really caught me off guard and it confused me, kind of thing never happens to me.

I then let her down as I was with someone else and at the time it was going good, where I stayed with her for nearly 2 years. During the second year the relationship began to get strained as she is a very dedicated academic to her field and it was starting to weigh in on the relationship, plus to add to that we both wanted different things for the future and I was unhappy with all the stuff she was coming out with and it eventually led to me breaking up with her as paths were wandering in different directions and I was feeling very alienated from her. Basically we were too different for each other.

Now the girl that was interested in me before, we're still good friends but she is now going out with a friend of mine who to be honest I thought was never right for her. And I am not happy with things he is doing. So I’m going to spill a few things here.

The girl that friend zoned me and later took an interest in me who’s now with my friend is like me in lots of ways, very clean cut, doesn’t smoke, doesn’t do any illegal drugs, she likes a drink like we all do, where my friend who she’s with now has had an unpleasant lifestyle over the last 10 years, smoked like a trooper, buying 50 euro worth of weed per week and sat in his house all day playing video games.

When she came along he almost botched it early on over his fondness for his exotic tobacco as she is militantly against the stuff and wasn’t particularly fond of going out with a cigarette lover either. So he gave up the weed and later gave up the fags.

A while later myself this friend of mine, herself and another friend of mine we were hanging out watching a movie and I was feeling pretty low about the break-up and next thing herself decides to head home and she does, next thing my friend runs upstairs to get a cigarette as soon as the door is shut, he then looks at me and says “Say nothing” I was sitting there disgusted that he was keeping that from her and in my mind it leaves other avenues to lie say if he was still smoking weed or would smoke it at a later stage like at a party and I know too well he loves the stuff. See I don’t know because I don’t spend a lot of time around him these days and I don’t know what he’s up to and if he can be trusted.

Annoyed me to no end because I passed her up for someone else who wasn’t worth all the effort I was putting in I know it sound cruel but I seriously bent over backwards, just makes me think he doesn’t deserve her. When I see them both together it bugs the life out of me because I know it could have been me and he does other things that she doesn’t like either in her presence. I’ll give a few examples.

I would say every time I see them on a night out he uses any excuse to bring up cannabis/weed into a discussion, she doesn’t like when he brings it up for a discussion yet he does anyway, I can see it on her face that she doesn’t like and I wonder why he brings the topic up. It’s like he’s trying to plant some seed in her mind to maybe manipulate her to accept his fondness for it. He drops all sorts of sentences like “Weed isn’t bad for you” “Weed is a social drug it should be up there with alcohol” “The guards and the courts persecute people who smoke weed” “The media paints weed in a bad light” and other stuff he spews on a regular night out. They had two arguments in front of me over the subject yet he’s still bringing it up and I expect him to every time we’re out, they had an argument at a mutual friend of ours wedding and another time in a pub and any other time he brought it up, she is sitting there looking really pissed off. Like if he’s off the weed like he says why does he feel the need to bring it up so often? This habit of his will end up being the end of his relationship and to be honest I want it to happen so I might win her over.

I’m at the point where when he does bring it up I let him talk and don’t bother to stop him because I want him to dig a hole for himself, I could save his arse say if she does get pissed off with the discussion and verbally tells him off but I decide not to, he should know his girlfriend well enough to not to start talking about it. So when I’m out I wait for him to start, even when he doesn’t start talking about it soon enough I think about initiating it subtly without her knowledge but it turns out I actually don’t need to as either he eventually brings it up or somebody else does and I think “Awesome somebody brought it up” and I sit back and wait for some fireworks.

Another argument they had was really stupid, was in the pub with them another day with another friend of mine and he got really annoyed with her over not liking Japanese anime and he spent what felt like forever arguing with her over her not liking it, not liking anime is fair enough some of it is weird and most of us prefer a good movie. The argument got to a point where my other friend was telling him to relax before he snapped back “Don’t tell me to relax!” followed by this long frustrated sigh followed by this really awkward silence. In my mind I was celebrating because well if I had a chance I’d get with her if they’d only end it. He could well have been in this mood because he couldn’t have a fag in front of her all day.

I’ve let a significant amount of time go by since the break up and I do feel like I’m being really cruel to the memory of my last relationship but I can’t help but feel that way after the way it all panned out, I’ve gotten to the point where I wrote a 3800 word letter to tell her what’s been on my mind and to ask is she actually happy with him and it mentions the cigarette story and all these times he’s steering the conversations towards weed and I honestly don’t think he’s right for her and that I feel like s**t for turning her away to stay with somebody who would end up to be just out for herself. I’ve wanted to send it to her since January and I chickened out each time I copied it and pasted it to a PM on Facebook, I’d have it there and ready to send but I’d think of all the repercussions and I’d remove the message, I’ve done this a dozen times, always happens when I’m alone in the evening time at home when I’ve nothing constructive to do with myself.

It just sucks and not to blow my own trumpet but I know I’d be better for her, we just bounce off each other really well, always have really, she opened up to me about a lot of things going on in her life and I did with her, all sorts of trials and tribulations and then other times we’d have the craic, the letter highlights all this stuff and how much I do care about her and don’t want to see her hurt. Other times I think maybe I shouldn’t show her the letter and wait till this friend of mine shots himself in the foot and I could win her over under better circumstances but how long could that take? Weeks? Months? Could be years I don’t know. Patience isn’t my strong suit either. So this letter is still on my computer and in between my chickening out phases I edit the letter and try to word it the best I can until if I feel the time is right and I’m brave enough to send it, likely to be when my patience runs out.

Head is just wrecked, feel like she’s the one who got away and the letter might or might not work it’s ridiculously long but it’s the truth and I fear that I might not be able to get this out verbally and make it have the affect I would want it to have so I choose to right it down to amplify it better but in the end it’s going to do damage either way. If the letter won't work well then I'll just have to give up. Waiting for him to naturally mess it up is playing it safe I know but I could be waiting ridiculous lengths for that to happen. Call it some severe jealousy if you want.

Bit of a moral crisis really, a lot of you will probably say I should back off and just find someone else but there really aren’t many like her, well to me there isn’t.

What do you make of it?

Jasper_

She is a responsible able minded adult in a relationship with someone else and is well aware of the positives and the negatives of the relationship - and chooses to stay with him.

You just have to learn to deal with this fact. Let it run its course naturally and for the love of god don't send that letter. It can do wonders to write these feelings down as a form of release, but nothing good can come from sending it. Most likely she would be taken back by your intensity and you would be face palming at hitting that send button in months/years to come.

I would suggest you distance yourself from her and start to move on with your life.

orthsquel

Here's a couple of things I learned in the last few years:

Never trouble trouble, until it (trouble) troubles you

If in doubt, do nothing

I know it kills you to see this girl with a friend of yours (that in any case you should wonder why you are friends with him if you have such a negative perception of him) when you think you have more to offer, but you don't know the ins and outs of their relationship. To you it's all very one dimensional, but to them they both may get a natural high from the arguments and that could be an anchor in their relationship that gives the spark rather than what builds a wall.

Even if you did send that letter by any means you are only voicing your opinion on their relationship but only while having only a glimpse of what their relationship is that to you is completely one dimensional. It would be like forming an opinion of a person and making a judgement of them based purely on what little you can see on their facebook profile when you are not friends with them and only viewable to an extent due to having a mutual friend. You miss a lot of the real detail and interaction, their interests, conversations, posts they share with friends-only and context in their activities.

But at the end of the day it's not your business. You can voice the concern as a friend to a friend but not with vested interest. Edit: And you have to keep it in mind that she could well know she deserves better, but could choose to ignore what you say, or could also question your friendship or seeing it as controlling behaviour. In short, it is her choice to be with him and you have to respect that. She has moved on from the day she called you up while you were in a relationship and blurted out she had feelings, maybe that for her was her last chance and maybe her feelings have proven not to be true, but it was also an entirely selfish move on her part to wait until after you were in a relationship and risking that relationship.

You should ask yourself what your real intentions are and what do you really feel for this girl? Are you just hanging on to what could have been in the past, based on feelings from the past? Or are you in the present? What are your intentions supposing that they did break up? And how do you know for certain that once she's single, once she knows how you allegedly feel, that once you're together you'll actually feel that way?

Don't base emotions on her being the "one that got away" because the feelings you had from a few years ago could be completely different to how you actually feel, and that all you have in the letter are just echoes of what you felt those years ago about her that you never got to say.

You need to see her for who she is now and base your emotions on the person she is now. Start to see her for who she is now, not the "one that got away". Because that might not be the same person anymore, and those feelings may not be genuine.

In any case, I'd stay out of the situation. If they do break up it should be with her having space for herself afterwards and if you and she get together in a relationship, then it should be both of you with a clear direction and certain footing with eachother without the past and ex's still clouding over either of you having feelings for one another.

LegacyUser

Well orthsquel, he and I have had a complicated relationship over the years, he has put me through some hell over the years. Mostly the bringing of those drugs into my world (not that I took them) and introduced them to friends of mine, plus I've had to put up with weed in my own family, he didn't introduce it to them though I'll add but the stuff has been an integral part of the destruction of my family over the years as the money isn't always there for this stuff, and once there is no weed around or even if it's around, the moods start to change for the worse and if you add mental illnesses like depression to the mix like what elder family members of of mine have, things start to get ugly and it affects chemical aspects of the brain differently to others, as far as I can see people have different reactions to it and it affects mental health or underlying undiagnosed mental health. This friend of mine is always coming up with an excuse to talk about it and back it up and he's going out with somebody who is against it, doesn't like it being brought up because it's not her scene, her and I discussed it at length when I met her first it was why I found her appealing but as she wanted she wasn't interested so I moved on.

I'm glad I always abstained from it, that being why I get pissed off when he brings it up to her as I know she is as militantly against it as I am, that being the most non physical feature that makes me admire her the most. I don't want her exposed to it, even on the level of his stupid debates about it where he maybe wants her to accept his fondness for it so he can smoke it again that's if he's not already or simply wants her to agree with him to massage his stupid ego, which she won't by the way.

I think I know her better to know that their arguments aren't giving off natural highs, the 2 arguments they had over the greatness of weed could have got nasty if we weren't in public, one of which was at a wedding of all places, I could see on her face she was just f**ked up of the conversation and during the other row in the pub, he had ranted for 10 minutes straight about it and it's good sides and he had been smoking it since age 13 etc and she said that she had a wholesome clean upbringing and was glad the drug never became an issue in her life and she was glad her family were protective of her and she never wants it in her life in any shape or form.

I think I know him well enough to know if he did quit it, he wouldn't for long, he quit the fags as far as I knew, was surprising because he loved his fags, but turns out he's been bulls**ting her all along. Before then I was feeling s**t about my own break-up and I had some regrets that I gave her up, then he pulled out that cigarette confirming his fibbing and it made me feel worse for passing her up, again I know it's a horrible way to think as there was a lot to like about my ex but by the way it ended I can't help but have a few regrets.

I know also she would be somewhat mad with me if she knew that I knew he has been smoking this whole time, to a lot of people it would seem like no big deal but I know her well enough to know she'd flip out.

Also I want to add in when I ended it with my ex, a week went by where it was just my family who knew and I hadn't been on Facebook for a week I went back on it after a week one some afternoon and changed by relationship status back to single, not even a minute later no joke, she texts me asking "Hey...are you ok?" I said "I'm fine I'll live"

Would I be reading too much into that I wonder, is she the concerned friend? Or someone who might still have a thing for me? My thoughts of her has always been the same, I always had admiration for her because she is very unshallow, grounded, happy in her own working class skin, clean living, very blunt about what she want's/doesn't want, always a joke, a smile and a lot of craic in her, she hasn't changed a bit as long as I've known her.

You could be right about me holding onto something from the past, truth is I never got girlfriends easily, it was always an absolute struggle for me, it's the reason I've been feeling so bad now for turning her away as I know now she'd have been better for me and it does sound like I'm putting her on a pedestal but it's the truth.

Jasper: The taken a back by intensity is the very reason I haven't hit send along with the s**tstorm it could create. I have thought about all the consequences in my lonely and somewhat depressed periods where I read through the letter and change the wording of it, it's as good as it's going to be for now.

Thanks for replying you guys, I know what you're saying is your 2 cents but I'm feeling really stuck right now.

Taltos

You're not going to like this.

Their relationship: you need to stay well away. If you think she doesn't know on some level you're fooling yourself into contriving an excuse to interfere in someone else's relationship - happy or not.

Him: it's clear he's not a friend so why associate with him?
Her: you want too much there right now to really have a platonic friendship. Also your breakup could still be messing with your head and causing you to see her or the potential here in a skewed way.

My advice is to distance yourself immediately. You need the perspective of distance here. If asked you can say it was just too awkward without getting into specifics but blabbing on him will always be viewed in an odd light and if you were to stand a chance with this woman would blow it out of the water.

Saralee4

There's something a bit competitive and a feeling of hard done by in your post.

You turned the girl down and she moved on.

You decided to work on relationship with your gf at the time and it didn't work out. It wasn't a waste of time or her waisting your time. You both just couldn't make it work.

You sound jealous of your friend now. You talk more about him and getting one up on him than you do about the apparent "one who got away". You talk about how you don't like the way your friend brings up use of cannabis in front of his gf because it annoys her but you secretly enjoy the fact that it annoys her and hope that he talks about it . You even go on to say that you consider encouraging him to talk about it so that will annoy her. How are you any different to your friend then? You want to see the one who got away annoyed? You secretly want to sabotage her relationship because you care about her?

You don't seem to like the friend at all. You don't like his choice of lifestyle and you seem bitter because he got the girl that you didn't want in the beginning. Why are you friends with him? Your not a very good friend to him and you don't seem to want good for him.

If you don't like the guy don't pretend to be his friend but leave him and his gf alone and move on. If they split up later down the line and you and the girl are in the same place then go for it but sitting and hoping and trying to manipulate a break up is not healthy behavior.

DeltaWhite

Totally agree with the above. OP you sound like you're after driving yourself demented with all this. You need to keep away from your "friend" (you dont like him much and it's because he's with her) and this girl. Whatever happens, happens. You need to take a serious step back from all this, your posts are alarming to me tbh. You're bitter towards your friend and you secretly want their relationship to fail. That's bad negative thinking to be carrying around with you all the time. Especially if you are in their company. She may be the one that got away but that's life, it's just one of those things that happened the way it did and hoping their relationship is sabotaged is not a healthy way to think. You're meddling, and you may even end up getting burnt yourself here. So quit while you're ahead, focus on yourself and getting over your recent break up.

But seriously, stop meddling in their lives. It's not your business if he smokes weed or not. And not your place to tell her. He will eventually be found out I'm sure.

Mr. Incognito

You were into her, she wasn't into you.

You got with someone then you were the one that got away and suddenly she wanted you.

She starts a relationship with your friend. This didn't bother you when you had your own gf.

Move on, find someone else and the relationship with your friend won't bother you anymore.

Shrap

Two items at 2 cents each.....

GuttedGuy62 wrote: »

This friend of mine is always coming up with an excuse to talk about it and back it up

If you're so dead against cannabis (and you have some great points on the subject), why do you never confront him when he brings it up? Seems to me you'd have more respect for yourself and your friendships if you stood up for your own beliefs, regardless of whether this girl does or not, and regardless of how much you want your "friend" to dig his own grave in their relationship.

I don't want her exposed to it

You don't get to make that call. She does. All your moaning about how she shouldn't have to listen to this; how you know how she really thinks.....do you know better than her how she really thinks? No? Then back off, wake up and for goodness sake do yourself a favour and delete that letter from every part of your computer.

TBH this won't sound nice, but whatever about the fella she's with now, she may have dodged a bullet by not being with someone who assumes to know what's best for her.

mapaca

Their relationship is none of your business. You need to distance yourself from both of them and move on. You sound a bit obsessed, to be honest, it's not healthy.

And please don't send her that letter.

sunshine and showers

You make it sound like she needs to be "saved " from her relationship. She doesn't - you need to back off and move on.

orthsquel

If the guy is completely wrong for her, then it is up to her to decide that. It isn't right to help end the relationship, or want to, or wish for it, or to coax your friend into sabotaging it, or whispering in either of their ears with poison. I can tell you from direct experience of having a relationship sabotaged by a selfish mutual "friend" was one of the worst experiences of my life, who only did it for their own selfish reasons whispering poisoning words that got my ex into doubts about me... it in the end set a series of wheels in motion, it cost a relationship, it cost a long term, long standing friendship (with the saboteur who only did it because they harboured feelings for me) and I felt utterly betrayed, angry, and it completely derailed my life and my happiness for the next few years as I struggled with to understand wtf had happened and why. So I urge you, please do not do anything that interferes or meddles with their relationship that results in you thinking you are going to be the white knight on your horse swooping in to save the damsel in distress because I guarantee if she finds you to be responsible for the relationship (regardless of whether it is good or bad) ending prematurely, you run the risk that your sentiment is seen deceitful underhanded behaviour as it will change her perception of you entirely.

You don't really like your friend. But you also seem offended by him on this girl's behalf. Have you ever stood up to him about his constant talk about drugs? If you have the same stance about drugs as does her, I really don't understand why you are friends with this guy at all. You can't say to her that he is not good enough for her, if you then continue to tolerate someone you don't like in your own life and remain friends even when it sounds like to me, you neither like him and he doesn't contribute much to your life.

Even if this guy is really bad for her, she needs to see this for herself. She has in a way tried to change this guy, and she has to see that hasn't worked, and will have to see that it never will, because you can't change someone who doesn't want to change. She probably will figure out he is smoking again, and she has to decide whether or not when she finds out if that is a deal breaker for her and if she can accept who he is, drugs and all. She should be given that chance to decide for herself, without interference.

As for noticing your facebook status..... don't read too much into that. If you hadn't been on facebook in a week, then she didn't notice or didn't seek to inquire if she did notice. She might have just been friendly without anything more to it than that.

Look in a way you are being put in a difficult situation by yourself, but also by your friend who blatantly smokes in front of you when the gf is gone and by herself because you know how she feels about drugs etc. It is not up to you to take action on either of their behalf in any way. It is up to both of them as adults in a relationship to communicate with another, to be honest and upfront with one another, to deal with their own relationship problems without looking for a go-between even unintentionally to step in while being forced by both sides to be a bystander; it is not your responsibility as a bystander to deal with a problem in their relationship or in each of their individual lives. It is their responsibility to their relationship and to themselves to do that.

foleypio

Op, tbh, I think your acting like a bit of a sneak & very immature aswell.

Trying to get your friend to burn himself in front of his girlfriend by talking about weed or preempting him to is a scummy thing to do in my opinion. I think that guy can do without friends like you.

You sound very bitter & jealous about their relationship & I for one hope you do send that letter/email so she can see what your really like.

ManOfMystery

Your post comes across as incredibly judgemental, and also stinks a bit of "I could have been a contender...........".

You seem to have put Girl (A) on a pedestal and come to the realisation that you and her should be together. Why do you think that hasn't happened yet? Perhaps because it's not meant to be? Sorry for sounding harsh, but IMO she only expressed an interest in you because when you began a relationship with another girl, Girl (A) suddenly lost the little ego boost she was getting from knowing you wanted to be with her. This has happened to countless people, countless times.

It seems to me that your friend (and I use that term loosely) merely represents what you perceive as the latest barrier to the wonderful, life-affirming relationship which you believe you and her should be engaging in. He is an obstacle to you, nothing more. You write absolutely nothing positive about him, and your post reeks of jealousy and vitriol towards him. You fail to acknowledge completely that there may be elements of the the relationship between your friend and Girl (A) which are mutually satisfying to them both (and may go a long way to explaining why they're still together), listing only the negative points you see as if it is some kind of scoring exercise where you come off better and should thus represet a better suitor for her.

I may sound harsh here, but I'm trying to illustrate how you're coming across. You're being that guy; the jealous one in the background who thinks he should have it all, and no-one else deserves any of it.

Forget the girl. There are billions more in this world - move on to one who isn't attached and who actually seems interested in you at this point in time.

You should also consider cutting your friend loose. He clearly annoys you, you say nothing good about him, so it's not like the friendship will be any great loss to you anyway.

I think you should also seriously look at your own outlook and perception on things and ask yourself if you really want to be the person who wishes to sabotage others for their own good. It's selfish, it's nasty and its not a very likeable trait.

kjl

So you are right for her because you don't smoke?

I actually had to laugh when I read you reasons, he smokes and this is the sole reason he is not good for her?

What a load of rubbish, he has already demonstrated that he doesn't do it in front of her and has made an effort to quit, but OMG on a night out probably while drinking he had a smoke.

Get off your high horse. Truth be told you post makes you sound pathetic.

If you send that letter you will probably regret it for the rest of your life. I think a 9 page letter telling her why you are better because you don't smoke would be a little absurd and would only harpoon any chance you have with this girl in the future.

TheBeardedLady

That was fairly unpleasant to read tbh. I agree with all of the above: move on from both of them.

LegacyUser

Hi Man of Mystery

In regards to your friend and the woman who got away you need to step away from this.
The reality is she became interested once you had a girlfriend. I know woman like this - they only want what they can't have. They enjoy the chase.

Her boyfriend is not a friend of yours. Most people have friends who share the same values as them or if not you respect the fact they may have a different values to you. You don't like weed unlike him. You know she does not like weed but it is not your job to tell her about his weed problem. She will not drop him and come running to you if you do this.
My feeling is that she knows this and is happy to stay with him.

I know both men and women who will put up with a lot of things not always good to stay in a relationship. It may take some time before they realise there with the wrong person for any number of reasons. Some people never realise this and rush into marriage/having children to end up a few years later in a bad relationship or a broken one.

At this stage it is time for you to move on with your own life and leave her and him behind.

Katgurl

I don't think your moral crisis should be about sending the letter or not, it should be about why you are finding yourself repeatedly masquerading as a friend to this guy while trying to sabotage his relationship. Seriously you have lost all moral high ground here. He smokes cigarettes sometimes and he misses smoking weed. That doesn't make him a terrible person.

She was briefly interested in you. You could ask her straight out if she has any feelings for you now. Or you could move on.

But whatever decision you make about her, you should distant yourself from him becausE you are no friend of his. I think your behaviour has been devious and horrible and I'm a little gobsmacked that this hasn't occurred to you.

LegacyUser

Katgurl wrote: »

I don't think your moral crisis should be about sending the letter or not, it should be about why you are finding yourself repeatedly masquerading as a friend to this guy while trying to sabotage his relationship. Seriously you have lost all moral high ground here. He smokes cigarettes sometimes and he misses smoking weed. That doesn't make him a terrible person.

She was briefly interested in you. You could ask her straight out if she has any feelings for you now. Or you could move on.

But whatever decision you make about her, you should distant yourself from him becausE you are no friend of his. I think your behaviour has been devious and horrible and I'm a little gobsmacked that this hasn't occurred to you.

Not as devious and horrible some of his own behavior has been, a while back, a number of years ago we were both out to celebrate what would have been my 22nd birthday, was a number of years ago and at the time I let what happened go and didn't confront him over it.

What happened was we went out, had a few drinks and were walking home, he decides he wants to stop by at this local dealers house to get weed, I didn't want to go in because I think the dealer is an almighty bellend, but he begged me to come in with him so I did to shut him up, we ended up there half the night and me just walking out too early on and the fact I was the only one there not smoking joints would have raised suspicion and they'd get the impression I was being a high horsed snob, might have started a row as there was a few rough people there too.

After a few hours I was still in the living room with this other guy, a gay guy who one of the rougher guys started a fight with earlier in the night. While this friend was upstairs exchanging money for weed with his dealer, the dealers girlfriend and the rough guy that started the fight with the gay fellow earlier, I had to go to the bathroom so I went upstairs to find it, I walked up quietly enough, next thing I hear a conversation, it's about me. They were like "Who's the guy you brought with you" and so on.

This friend of mine knows quite a lot about me, I've known him a long time so he knows enough of things I like to keep quiet. At that point I was a virgin and I've always had trouble getting girlfriends and it affected me badly at that point. He tells them that and they all have this great chuckle to themselves upstairs at my expense, felt totally humiliated and betrayed and at that point I was drunk enough to have flown off the handle and re-arrange his face for him, but I put a lid on it and he still doesn't know I heard everything and I do think about that night still every now and then. Another reason why I feel the need to drop him in it. I've never done anything like that to him and before that we got on and I have tried to talk him into giving up the weed many times before either of us were in steady relationships, he ignored me then, was like talking to a wall so I'm not saving him with his weed debates that land him in arguments or any other argument he gets in. He's on his own.

I won't send the letter since most think it's going to add fuel to the fire, I'll let him f**k it up for himself.

DeltaWhite

Ok.. Moving forward OP. Stop hanging around with this guy. He is clearly not your friend like you claim. You didn't even acknowledge anything anyone on this thread said to you, you just came back with more ways in which you feel hard done by because of him. It's more bitterness and paints you in a bad light.

In your first post you say that you let this girl slip through your fingers.. But yet you're blaming your friend on everything. For your own sanity, please step away from the 2 of them. Because in my opinion you seem obsessed. That's putting it lightly!

Meauldsegosha

Your issue here is not with the girl that supposedly got away. Your real issue is with your so called "friend".

Did you post about this friend before? The story of him telling people about your virginity is familiar.

You should stay away from this person. Being in contact with him is causing you too much pain and anxiety in your life.

StormWarrior

OP you are acting like you and this girl are helpless victims of this bloke. You're not. Nobody is forcing her to be his girlfriend and nobody is forcing you to hang around with them. You sound really bitter and the way you see this bloke is clearly not how the girl sees him. I wonder what she'd think of you if she knew you were hoping he'd dig a hole for himself with the weed smoking and cause her to dump him. I agree with everything Man of Mystery said. You've go several choices:

1. Carry on pretending to be their friend while hoping she'll dump him and pick you.

2. Stop hanging around with them and move on.

3. Just tell her how you feel.

It seems you only intend to take the first option, and it comes across as really sad and a bit creepy, as well as cowardly.

beks101

Let's be honest here OP. This is all down to your bruised ego. You fancied her and she didn't fancy you, you took 'second best'. All of a sudden she decided she wanted you when you were taken. You're suddenly available and she's with your 'friend', and now you're intent on meddling in their relationship so you can 'win her back.'

To be honest you're both as bad as each other. She only wanted you when she couldn't have you. Now you want her because you can't have her and you're intent on hanging your 'friend' out to dry to quench your own need for that ego boost again.

Their relationship is none of your business and you have no idea of how good a match they are when you're watching from the outside. To be honest I'm fairly 'clean cut' too but a bit of weed or a few fags isn't going to put me off a guy I'm madly attracted to and feel a connection with. My OH smokes from time to time, he's still the best guy I know and I wouldn't rather be with anyone else. It's likely the same for her and even if it's not; none of your business.

Accept that she's not an option now like a responsible adult, quit sh1tting all over your friend and move on. You have a choice here: be a good person or be a dickhead. These decisions are what build character. They make you who you are. Do you want to be a weak, ego bruised dick? Or do you want to be a decent man who does the right thing?

Widen your social circle, take up a class, join a new gym, start a course. Meet new women. Move. On.

ShowMeTheCash

Hey OP,

You are coming across a little bit like a nut here!
You seem fixated almost obsessed wit this other guy and what he does or does not do almost like the bitter third wheel!
You mentioned in your first post that you did not want to look pathetic when she declined your advances and wanted to be friends but I feel you have turned a corner somewhere and have now become desperate!

Reading the events I reckon even if she was single she would not want to be with you she made that clear when you both where single.
You have read into this message she sent when you where in a relationship wayyyyyy to much...
It is not uncommon that a friend might question if she has feelings for you when you decide to move on... What's that i am unavailable now you want me??? Classic "I want my cake and eat it!"..


Dude move on before you risk looking like a fool!

Matteroffact

If you want to give it one last shot I would tell this girl face to face how you feel, but under no circumstances would I send her the letter because then she has evidence to hold this against you should things turn sour. I would not go into details either as to how you feel, it is never a good idea to pour out your innermost thoughts to anyone. You need to have some bit of mystery about you to be attractive. So if you cannot get this idea out of your head that this girl might fancy you then what have you to lose by telling her how you feel now and are sorry that things didn't work out between you but that you felt it would be wrong to just dump your g/f whom you were dating at the time. You are not asking her to dump your friend, you are just telling her how you feel and the rest is up to her. She will, of course, need a bit of time to take this in and you may not get a positive answer straight away. She would have to deal with her feelings for your friend and how she feels about you now. Either way, you will have given it your best shot and won't feel that you missed the boat anymore. Best of luck with this.

ShowMeTheCash

Matteroffact wrote: »

If you want to give it one last shot I would tell this girl face to face how you feel, but under no circumstances would I send her the letter because then she has evidence to hold this against you should things turn sour. I would not go into details either as to how you feel, it is never a good idea to pour out your innermost thoughts to anyone. You need to have some bit of mystery about you to be attractive. So if you cannot get this idea out of your head that this girl might fancy you then what have you to lose by telling her how you feel now and are sorry that things didn't work out between you but that you felt it would be wrong to just dump your g/f whom you were dating at the time. You are not asking her to dump your friend, you are just telling her how you feel and the rest is up to her. She will, of course, need a bit of time to take this in and you may not get a positive answer straight away. She would have to deal with her feelings for your friend and how she feels about you now. Either way, you will have given it your best shot and won't feel that you missed the boat anymore. Best of luck with this.

I think if he is to tell her he should send the letter.
His arguement is how this other guy is so wrong for her!
Why hide this, at least this way she knows what she is getting with him and can make an informed decision.... After all he only wants what's best for her right?

Saralee4

In my opinion, OP, you need to stay away from these two not because they are a bad influence on you but because you have developed a bad irrational dislike for the situation and it does not look like you are thinking clearly.

You seem to be thinking in one direction and that is 'make my friend look bad'. It even appears as a reader that you are desperately trying to prove how bad he is here in this forum even to readers whom you don't know however I just read exaggerated stories and issues regarding him from you. I don't know if he is nice or not but certainly your description of him has shown us nothing really that bad about him but it does say a lot about you and how you feel towards him.

You seem to be focussing all your negativity on him. You have latched onto the fact that she doesn't like him smoking and you are using it as a means to sound like you two are made for one another. You are focussing on this to the extreme because you feel bonded to her somehow by the fact that you both dislike his smoking. You even put in your title that you are in 'moral crisis' which I think you are referring to the fact that you know he smokes and you don't know whether to tell her or not. You seem to see this situation in black and white. Just because she doesn't like him smoking weed or smoking does not mean that she will dump him. I also think you may feel you have the moral highground because your friend has a bad habit and you feel that this justifies your feelings towards him.

There are a lot of women and men who complain about things their partner does, sometimes my husband stays one drink too many in the pub but im not going to leave him because of it. You also fail to notice that your friend did try to give up his habit for this girl and he has managed to cut down I believe from what you have said.

It just seems like you are desperately fishing for an issue between them. For some reason, you blame this guy for things and something about him brings out your own insecurities and it seems you feel you have some kind of need to bring him down or to justify to yourself that he is not good in order to make yourself feel better. You really need to look at the overwhelming advice given in this thread and forget about focussing on your friend and his girlfriend and focus on working on yourself.

Dellnum

I understand how you feel OP. You have known this girl for a long time so you are pretty sure that this guy is not the guy to make her happy, and you can see for yourself that this is the case. You have always fancied her and at one stage she fancied you, so I don't blame you for thinking that you might still have a chance with her. But hey, guess what, your best chance of finding out how you stand with her is to tell her how you feel, and not in the letter. Tell her in person. I am sure she will not be in a position to give you a straight answer right away, but at least you will have done something about the situation. It is then up to her what she wants to do. If she stays with your friend then you can forget about her, instead of always wondering if things could be different. I would tell her in person but don't send her the letter. If you can't bring yourself to tell her now then wait until they split up, and then tell her. It is obvious that they will split up in time. There is nothing devious about your thinking either, you obviously can see for yourself that this couple are not well suited.

MaroonAndGreen

Christ do not send the letter anyway, was genuinely cringing for you reading the bit about the letter...

You should try to move on OP

SingItOut

She didn't want a relationship with you when you first met. She suddenly had feelings for you only when you were with someone else, yet you choose the other girl over her. If things hadn't went sour with your girlfriend would you really still be chasing after your friends girl?

It's been two years and if she is happily in a relationship with your friend then you need to move on and stop feeling so hard done by and jealous, you missed your chance by choosing another girl. You have no idea how their relationship is in private, maybe alcohol just fuels their arguments. If she knew he smoked weed and cigarettes when they got together then she can't suddenly have a problem with it, she knew what she was getting into.

People may not agree with me, but I generally feel that when someone hasn't made a big commitment to their partner (unmarried, no kids etc.), life is short and therefore it's no real harm to tell them how you feel and give them the option to split up and get with you - if that's what they want. It's not gonna happen if their relationship is solid anyway. And obviously you wouldn't want to be betraying anyone etc. so the partners of actual friends would be strictly off-limits.

This situation however...no.

I think your judgement is wildly off kilter. It is quite possible you simply want revenge on this frenemy rather than actually being in love with this woman.

Take the advice you have been given here. Do not send the letter. Back away from both of them. Let go of these toxic friendships, for your own sake.

LegacyUser

"I don't want her exposed to it, even on the level of his stupid debates about it "

- unless it furthers your own agenda right?
as you seem more than happy for him to have these debates with her and even consider setting him off on them yourself when you think it could cause them to break up..

You come across so badly in your posts.
Duplicitous, sneaky, sly, manipulative, bitter, jealous, petty and selfish.

Don't be that guy.

You and him are not friends. Stop pretending to be just so you can spend time in their company trying to break up their relationship.

She only wanted you when you had someone else. As another poster said, it was quite likely not genuine feelings but only a reaction from her having lost her little ego boost from the friendzoned guy she knew had a thing for her.
I wouldn't be surprised if she still knows you have a thing for her now.

I think you care more about the fact that she is with THIS guy who you have serious issues with rather than genuinely wondering if she is the one that got away.

I think you should distance yourself completely from both of them. If asked for an explanation from them, you could admit that you still have feelings for her and want to distance yourself and then the ball is in her court really and at least you would have been honest (to an extent) with both of them about your true feelings.

Don't just linger around like a bad smell though, plotting and scheming behind their backs whilst pretending to have their best interests at heart. Be honest and then distance yourself. It would do you the world of good. Maybe you could end up with her again and maybe you won't, but if you do it should not be through manipulative means. Let whatever happens just happen.