Shanwick lingo

easygoing1982 · 22-02-2015 8:57pm #1

Hi Folks, I've recently got interested in listening to liveatc and looking at flightradar24 on my android phone.

My main interest is listening to shanwick high level but I'm struggling on some of there lingo etc and would appreciate if you could answer some of my questions although I understand they wont be completely relevant to shanwick.

A lot of the time I hear clear to stromble or pickle. What/where exactly are these?

Radar service terminates-Does this mean they have gone completely off everyone's radar. I always thought aircraft was monitored somewhere on a radar by someone.

Why do they ask aircraft mid-flight to change their squak.

What are the alternative radios to shanwick in other countries and is there a way to hear these. Is oceanic one of these.

Sorry for all the probably basic questions and thanks in advance for taking the time to answer

22-02-2015 9:18pm

easygoing1982 wrote: »

A lot of the time I hear clear to stromble or pickle. What/where exactly are these? Strumble STU it's a VOR near Fishguard in Wales, PIKIL is an RNAV waypoint at 56n15w. http://skyvector.com/

Radar service terminates-Does this mean they have gone completely off everyone's radar. I always thought aircraft was monitored somewhere on a radar by someone. YES and NO to second part, RADAR is limited by power, height of target, height of transmitter and curvature of the earth. So little to no radar in the middle of an ocean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar

Why do they ask aircraft mid-flight to change their squawk. Westbound, No point in squawking in the middle of the sea if no radar can see you, however, they will still sqauwk so other aircraft can see them on TCAS. Eastbound sometimes they will need to change code as they cross from one ATC provider to another. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder_%28aeronautics%29

What are the alternative radios to shanwick in other countries and is there a way to hear these. Is oceanic one of these. http://www.liveatc.net/

Sorry for all the probably basic questions and thanks in advance for taking the time to answer

easygoing1982 · 22-02-2015 9:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Hi, thanks for taking the time to answer. As I said in my OP its just something I've started to get an interest in.

I apologise if I've annoyed you in someway

arubex · 22-02-2015 9:36pm

easygoing1982 wrote: »

A lot of the time I hear clear to stromble or pickle. What/where exactly are these?

The points by which en route aircraft are routed ( non-oceanic ) are a mix of physical navaids and 'imaginary' geographic points that are assigned names.

Strumble, for example, is a VOR radio beacon:

http://ourairports.com/navaids/STU/Strumble_VOR-DME_GB/#lat=51.994701385498,lon=-5.040279865264893,zoom=10,type=Satellite

There's a chap in England who goes around photographing those but I can't find his website at the moment. Edit: here he is!

http://www.trevord.com/navaids/stu.htm

Whereas PIKIL is a geographic waypoint, nothing to photograph! But if there's one on land near you they are cracking spots to stand and watch the air traffic passing over.

http://www.opennav.com/waypoint/UK/PIKIL

There's no real way to know which is which when you hear it spoken, except through familiarity, but by convention waypoints are five-letters and fairly unique globally. Navaids are three-letters but usually expressed as a full name ( e.g. STU -> Strumble ) except in the case of BEL up at Belfast, which is always 'The BEL'!

Often controllers will spell-out the point if they feel the pilot is unfamiliar with the area.

There's a whole series of airways over the UK which route over certain points and are programmed into the FMS, but I'm not up to speed on their current configuration. I just know that aircraft coming to see me in Belfast are delivered on a platter at NELBO and usually head out via PEPOD

easygoing1982 · 22-02-2015 9:41pm

Thanks for your reply. Ive a few links there to look at.

Does anyone know why UK airports aren't on liveatc, I was thinking maybe a security thing but surely if it was that then the likes of the US wouldn't be streaming

22-02-2015 9:43pm

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for taking the time to answer. As I said in my OP its just something I've started to get an interest in.

I apologise if I've annoyed you in someway

No you didn't sorry, it said my post was too short so I just added a smilie, which I thought was a wink but was a rolls eyes sorry about that.

22-02-2015 9:44pm

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Ive a few links there to look at.

Does anyone know why UK airports aren't on liveatc, I was thinking maybe a security thing but surely if it was that then the likes of the US wouldn't be streaming

Security they say but that's a rubbish excuse to be honest.

westdub · 22-02-2015 9:46pm

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Does anyone know why UK airports aren't on liveatc, I was thinking maybe a security thing but surely if it was that then the likes of the US wouldn't be streaming

Against the law in the UK....... http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/enforcement/spectrum-enforcement/guidance

crosstownk · 22-02-2015 9:47pm

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Ive a few links there to look at.

Does anyone know why UK airports aren't on liveatc, I was thinking maybe a security thing but surely if it was that then the likes of the US wouldn't be streaming

It's illegal to listen to UK ATC transmissions - in the UK. Hence, LiveATC won't host such transmissions.

EDIT: west dub there before me!

easygoing1982 · 22-02-2015 9:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No you didn't sorry, it said my post was too short so I just added a smilie, which I thought was a wink but was a rolls eyes sorry about that.

No prob. not to worry.

Thanks for all your help folks

arubex · 22-02-2015 9:57pm

Whilst I was looking for a UK airways map I encountered this page discussing bouncing radio-fax signals between amateur stations using... radio reflections from airliners.

Utter mad geekiness. I like it!

http://www.lsear.freeserve.co.uk/aircraft%20scatter.html

Tenger · 22-02-2015 10:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

.... it said my post was too short so I just added a smilie, which I thought was a wink but was a rolls eyes sorry about that.

Yeah, we spotted that too!!!

easygoing1982 · 23-02-2015 9:37am

Hopefully mods don't mind me asking on this thread as it's slightly off topic.

On the feed I'm listening to which I'm I'm presuming is Shannon low level i can hear helicopters etc.

I'm on the East coast so was wondering what would i have to get the choppers over on this side. Would it be Dublin?

23-02-2015 10:51am

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Hopefully mods don't mind me asking on this thread as it's slightly off topic.

On the feed I'm listening to which I'm I'm presuming is Shannon low level i can hear helicopters etc.

I'm on the East coast so was wondering what would i have to get the choppers over on this side. Would it be Dublin?

Probably listening to Shannon FIS, you just have to listen to Dublin feeds to hear helis, might not catch them as the Dublin feeds have lots of frequencies bunched into one.

smurfjed · 23-02-2015 5:40pm

Why do they ask aircraft mid-flight to change their squawk.

NAT/MNPS procedures call for using a squark of A2000 30 minutes after entering the area, so as you make contact with radar based controllers, they will give you a squark code.

Radar service terminates

It actually means that you are in procedural airspace radar than under radar control.

The really cool thing about high level Irish airspace is that they don't have airways, they will just clear you from point to point. There is also something extremely comforting when you enter Irish airspace and hear an Irish voice

eatmyshorts · 23-02-2015 5:43pm

smurfjed wrote: »

The really cool thing about high level Irish airspace is that they don't have airways, they will just clear you from point to point. There is also something extremely comforting when you enter Irish airspace and hear an Irish voice

Budapest FIR has just implemented free flight too. An oasis in the middle of Euro high level charts!

BonkeyDonker · 23-02-2015 8:37pm

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Budapest FIR has just implemented free flight too. An oasis in the middle of Euro high level charts!

The Scots are introducing this in the area adjacent to the Shannon FOR/NOTA shortly as well.

arubex · 23-02-2015 8:39pm

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

The Scots are introducing this in the area adjacent to the Shannon FOR/NOTA shortly as well.

Cool, I didn't realise that was happening!

The Direct Route Airspace (DRA) project proposes to remove all promulgated ATS routes within the area shown on the chart at Enclosure 1 on 5th March 2015.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2111/20141107_DRA_Phase_1_Draft_DecisionLetterv8.pdf

crosstownk · 23-02-2015 9:48pm

Somewhat OT but anyway....

This thread reminds me of years ago when I used to listen to my Marc multi band radio. I used to listen on SSB for transatlantic aircraft and plot the current and next locations on a Jeppesen map I had on the wall.

arubex · 24-02-2015 7:53am

crosstownk wrote: »

I used to listen on SSB for transatlantic aircraft and plot the current and next locations on a Jeppesen map I had on the wall.

... and the joy of a 'hit' when I matched the flight with what I saw in binoculars

Ahh, the old days prior to FR24.

Shanwick lingo

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