Ceremony dilemma - Any way to compromise?

andreac

Hi,

Would appreciate any help or advice. Recently engaged and already there is a dilemma.

I am adamant i dont want a religious ceremony in a church as im a non believer and do not want a religious service of any description. But my other half would like a church wedding.

Is there any way to come to a compromise? I see there are some churches or chapels where you can have civil ceremonies, but size might be an issue as we will probably have high numbers, possibly close to 200 or so.

We live in Dublin so somewhere in the surrounding areas would be great.

My other half has an uncle who is a priest and quite modern so i said i would be willing to get a blessing from him if that was something he would do.

Looking forward to trying to get ideas and hopefully getting something sorted.

Thanks

ABajaninCork

Congratulations!!

What about having a humanist ceremony, and have his uncle perform a blessing after? You could marry in the Unitarian Church on St Stephen's Green. Or you could marry in a Quaker Hall or Methodist church? Or you could marry in a civil ceremony in a nice venue and have his uncle do the blessing after.

Where are you thinking of doing the deed? Perhaps we could help with more suggestions...

Just some ideas to get you started.

emzolita

andreac wrote: »

Hi,

Would appreciate any help or advice. Recently engaged and already there is a dilemma.

I am adamant i dont want a religious ceremony in a church as im a non believer and do not want a religious service of any description. But my other half would like a church wedding.

Is there any way to come to a compromise? I see there are some churches or chapels where you can have civil ceremonies, but size might be an issue as we will probably have high numbers, possibly close to 200 or so.

We live in Dublin so somewhere in the surrounding areas would be great.

My other half has an uncle who is a priest and quite modern so i said i would be willing to get a blessing from him if that was something he would do.

Looking forward to trying to get ideas and hopefully getting something sorted.

Thanks

Maybe have a humanist or civil ceremony in the unitarian church on Stephens green. Your other half can have someone say a prayer as a part of the ceremony and it wouldn't look out of place as it is actually a church.

andreac

Hi and thanks for the replies. I had mentioned it to him about his uncle and the blessing so I think hes going to talk to him and see what we can come up with.

I came across the Heritage Centre in Carlingford which looks lovely. Has the look of a church, so not sure whether his uncle could marry us there without too much religious content? Or whether they are allowed to do that.

God plays no part in my life so I don't want the ceremony to be about God, so this is where we have to try and sort it out.

Anywhere in the Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Louth area would be fine I would say.

We only got engaged this week but its something we need to try and work out soon so we can start deciding on venues etc.

fits

Ah you can take some time before you need to flesh out these details. We got engaged last Easter but didnt announce until July for various reasons. Those few months were so nice to be honest.

We are having a humanist ceremony but if my partner had felt strongly about religious ceremony I would have acceded to a church wedding with no mass.

andreac

fits wrote: »

Ah you can take some time before you need to flesh out these details. We got engaged last Easter but didnt announce until July for various reasons. Those few months were so nice to be honest.

We are having a humanist ceremony but if my partner had felt strongly about religious ceremony I would have acceded to a church wedding with no mass.

So is it an option to have a church wedding without a mass or too much religious content?

Can a priest marry you outside a church?

fits

Technically yes, they can, they are legal solemnizers, but the church might not recognise it.

You could discuss it with your priest uncle in confidence perhaps?

And yeah you can have a ceremony with no mass. They do that quite regularly.

andreac

fits wrote: »

Technically yes, they can, they are legal solemnizers, but the church might not recognise it.

You could discuss it with your priest uncle in confidence perhaps?

And yeah you can have a ceremony with no mass. They do that quite regularly.

Ok great. Gives me a few ideas to think about. So many things to think of, but I think this will be the only one that we will find hard to compromise on...

Username here

andreac wrote: »

I am adamant i dont want a religious ceremony in a church as im a non believer and do not want a religious service of any description. But my other half would like a church wedding.

Had you guys discussed this at any stage prior to the engagement? How much of a deal-breaker (if at all) is this for each of you? If you have children, and one of you wants them baptised, and the other doesn't, what do you do? There doesn't seem to be much room for compromise in this regard.

Of course, you don't have to answer any of that on this thread - it's just food for thought, really. Good luck with your plans.

Milly33

You could have it lets say in an outside church.. A friend got married in an old abbey and it was loverly. Had a humanist celebrant, but you could go either way civil, humanist, blessing whichever ye prefer...

pwurple

By 'church wedding', does your bride/husband-to-be mean the physical building, or the involvement of a priest?

We had our ceremony performed by a priest, but not in a church. It wasn't a mass, just the marriage rites. Your fiancee's uncle might do something like that for you (is he a registered solumniser and has the ability to do the legal part?). We found it very personal and didn't miss the church one bit. Plus, was in a great location!

If it's the physical building which is important, and you want the architecture without the priest then there are places around for that too. I'd be more familiar with Cork myself. Would suggest the unitarian church, or maybe investigate the university chapels if you attended one locally. For example, the UCC honan chapel is available to graduates but has no parish or priest associated, you bring your own celebrant. The Honan is RC so I'm not sure on if there are rules on denomination in there, but there are bound to be other similar ones in Dublin, so check their rules maybe.

thatgirl1

I was in the same boat as you for years, we've been engaged for quite a while, and this was the main reason! We had so many arguments over it, that at one point I thought we'd never be married!

Eventually we came to a compromise, I could have my civil ceremony if I took his last name (which I really didn't want to do - but it'll give you an idea of how much I didn't want a church wedding!) , as for the whole kids debate (we're happy if we never have any, though if we do, we've agreed that they won't be baptised and will be allowed to choose their own faith - with our full support). Point is, is there anything like this that you could compromise on? Is there anything else that means a lot to him?

Neyite

I'm in the same boat, OP, hence no further movement on wedding plans in over a year when it was supposed to be a short engagement.

Firstly, is it that he specifically wants a priest+catholic wedding, or is it that he likes the aesthetics of a church wedding, but easygoing on religion?

If its the former, your options are: Have a church wedding, but no mass. The mass is actually a relatively new addition, in years gone by the marriage rite is the only bit that used to get performed. I've been to one of these and it was lovely. Having said that, the text for the rite is usually non-negotiable to alter or amend. This is the one bit of a catholic wedding mass that the B&G cant alter.

Your other option is a full catholic wedding with mass.

If its the latter, you are laughing. There are loads of options from unitarian churches, humanist outdoors in a nice abbey ruins etc, or deconsecrated venues that are atmospheric enough to give it a traditional feel. He may just assume that a civil ceremony would be in a dingy HSE office with chipped lino and peeling paint, so by showing him nice hotel venues that cater for civil ceremonies it might sway him.

andreac

Thanks for all the help. Yes it was discussed very early on, nearly at the start when we met that i do not want a church/religious wedding so he was aware.

I think he would like something slightly religious or maybe even in a church. That option of no mass and very little religious content could be an option.
As i am a non believer and not a fan of churches in any way i couldnt be happy doing it all on our special day.

Neyite he would be easy going on religion but i think he has in his head that he should get married in a church, just because. Maybe when we start looking at options it might be easier to find out what and how we could do it by compromising on both sides of it. But i certainly do not want a whole load of religious hymns, prayers etc as it plays no part in my life so why should it when im getting married?

With regards to children, if we do have some, i would be happy for them to be baptised etc if he wants and when they are old enough they can make their own decision then if they want to be religious.

helimachoptor

Also had no interest in getting married in a church, wife did.

I was pretty apathetic about where it happened so church, field, pub etc made no difference to me. She wanted it in a church, i wanted her to be happy so we did it ina church.

rainbow kirby

The Unitarian church in Stephen's Green was my first thought (the one near where I am in London is even nicer - dates from the 17th century). Tom Colton and the spiritualists can do a very mixed ceremony, so if you wanted some kind of blessing mixed with a lot of secular readings then you could most likely get something like that there.

andreac

I think the only thing that would put me off the one at Stephens Green is access and parking etc. What is it like for that?

Redser87

You could arrange the vintage wedding bus to take people to and from there if that's all that would put you off, plus there is the Brown Thomas car park and Stephens Green

Milly33

Has he spoken to his family about it. Maybe he feels that they think he should get married in a church which may add to his no backing down on the subject. I know a few things we mentioned it was kinda like "but no sure this is what everyone else did or is going to do" event though they are;nt ye there is a small bit of pressure from family.

lazygal

rainbow kirby wrote: »

The Unitarian church in Stephen's Green was my first thought (the one near where I am in London is even nicer - dates from the 17th century). Tom Colton and the spiritualists can do a very mixed ceremony, so if you wanted some kind of blessing mixed with a lot of secular readings then you could most likely get something like that there.

It might have changed since we got married but when we inquired with the Unitarian church on Stephens Green we were told we'd need to attend some services and use one of their celebrants. As we were looking for a venue and wanted to use our own celebrant we ruled it out. At the time humanist marriages weren't legally binding but we weren't allowed to rent the building for the ceremony.

Pwurple has mentioned the priest in Cork who does offsite ceremonies and she's a Catholic atheist so maybe you could get his details.

JayRoc

andreac wrote: »

With regards to children, if we do have some, i would be happy for them to be baptised etc if he wants and when they are old enough they can make their own decision then if they want to be religious.

So you're not religious. So much so that you object to a church wedding. Yet you're happy enough to have your kids put on the books?

fits

JayRoc wrote: »

So you're not religious. So much so that you object to a church wedding. Yet you're happy enough to have your kids put on the books?

She is one half of a couple! The children have two parents! Jes the militant atheists are nearly as annoying as the militant religionists.

lazygal

JayRoc wrote: »

So you're not religious. So much so that you object to a church wedding. Yet you're happy enough to have your kids put on the books?

Not to mention that once a Catholic always a Catholic now count me out isn't an option. Why baptise them if you want them to make an informed decision about religion? I couldn't let my husband indoctrinate my children in a faith I didn't follow. Luckily there's been no religious related issues in our relationship.

lazygal

fits wrote: »

She is one half of a couple! The children have two parents! Jes the militant atheists are nearly as annoying as the militant religionists.

Hold the outrage there. There's nothing militant about not enrolling a child a faith you don't follow if you also want them to make their own choices about religion. The term Militant is used far too easily these days

fits

lazygal wrote: »

Hold the outrage there. There's nothing militant about not enrolling a child a faith you don't follow if you also want them to make their own choices about religion. The term Militant is used far too easily these days

Look there are two people in this relationship, one is religious, the other isnt. She has already said she is happy enough for children to be baptised and hasnt asked for any 'feedback' on it. So yeah, butting in on a thread that isnt even about that is a bit 'militant' to be honest with you.

JayRoc

fits wrote: »

She is one half of a couple! The children have two parents! Jes the militant atheists are nearly as annoying as the militant religionists.

Hang on, who said I was an atheist?

fits

JayRoc wrote: »

Hang on, who said I was an atheist?

Arent you?

JayRoc

fits wrote: »

Arent you?

You don't think believers are put out by a-la-carte christianity as much as atheists are?

fits

JayRoc wrote: »

You don't think believers are put out by a-la-carte christianity as much as atheists are?

do you want to answer questions with questions all night? Are you atheist or not?

JayRoc

fits wrote: »

do you want to answer questions with questions all night? Are you atheist or not?

I am, as it happens. But happily, I agree with those of my friends who are religious, in that all of us wish only people who believe in a religion enter their kids into said religion.

Toots

Guys please keep posts on topic and helpful to the OP. A debate on her decision whether or not to baptise any possible future children she may have is not what she asked for.

haveringchick

andreac wrote: »

Hi and thanks for the replies. I had mentioned it to him about his uncle and the blessing so I think hes going to talk to him and see what we can come up with.

I came across the Heritage Centre in Carlingford which looks lovely. Has the look of a church, so not sure whether his uncle could marry us there without too much religious content? Or whether they are allowed to do that.

God plays no part in my life so I don't want the ceremony to be about God, so this is where we have to try and sort it out.

Anywhere in the Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Louth area would be fine I would say.

We only got engaged this week but its something we need to try and work out soon so we can start deciding on venues etc.

You want to get married in church officiated by a Roman Catholic priest but God plays no part in your life so you dont want any religious content?

Neyite

haveringchick wrote: »

You want to get married in church officiated by a Roman Catholic priest but God plays no part in your life so you dont want any religious content?

No, her partner wants the religious bit at his wedding. Hence the op exploring options to compromise.

andreac

I don't want the religious part or church but he would like it. Just trying to come up with some sort of compromise if possible.

Ginny

We got married in the Unitarian church a few years ago. The ceremony can have as little as you want religious wise in it or it can be religious. You can have any music or readings you like. We had no religion in our ceremony. Only thing to bear in mind if it's a Roman Catholic ceremony you want or not. Parking wise St Stephens green parking is around the corner, our guests used there or the on street parking. Although we married on a Sunday so on street parking was free.
If you've any questions about it just ask. It's a magical venue, we also had our sons welcoming ceremony there too.

neemish

I think one of the issues for you OP, is that having a few religious bits at a Wedding isn't exactly what happens at a Catholic ceremony.
A civil marriage is essentially a contract between two people, albeit one that most people hope is for life. But nonetheless one that you can decide to opt out of at some point in the future.
A Catholic ceremony doesn't just have a few spiritual readings - in it, a couple form a covenant between them before God that forms a unity between them for the whole of their lives, and promise to live within the laws of the Catholic Church. It is a sacrament, and this gives it a particular standing for believers. Dress it up any way you like, but this is what you are agreeing to if you a agree to a Church wedding.
Ask yourself if this is something that you can really go along with. And then talk to your fiancee and see if you can compromise.

pwurple

You're half-right. An RC wedding rite certainly is not a sum of readings, because it doesn't have any readings whatsoever. They are often added, but are completely optional.

And whether it's a sacrament doesn't usually matter a toss to nonbelievers, as they simply don't believe it. It's only ex-catholics who are bothered with guilt over whether something is a sacrament.

andreac

Thanks everyone for all the replies. It really has made me realise that i cannot go through with a church wedding as i am totally against religion, god and so on and i just couldnt commit to what they require by having a church wedding.

Need to sit down and have a good chat with himself.