Alternative marathon training?

Vancity

Hi all,

I've asked this in Health & Fitness and got some good advice (albeit not entirely what I wanted to hear) so just wondering if anyone here has a different opinion or to do any form of reasonable marathon time (at my level!) do I absolutely have to run min. 4 times per week.

I started running about a year ago and I've just finished my first half marathon and want to move on to train for the full marathon. I don't have one in mind yet, but plan to give myself plenty of time to train. I started following several of the novice training plans for the half marathon (3-4 months ago) but I simply couldn't keep up with the number of runs per week they suggested nor the weekly mileage suggested. I kept getting minor overuse injuries and was just sidelined for a few days each time - constant ankle pain, shin splints, hip pain etc. So I gave up on aiming for the sub 2 hours I had targeted and decided I would just do the LSR each Saturday and 6/7k midweek with the aim of just finishing the race. During the weeks I generally did 1 or 2 gym classes as well as weight training - crossfit/spinning/tabata classes (interval/circuit training) so I was exercising 3/4 times per week but only running once or twice - but I always got the long run in and did a longest run of 11 miles before the half which I then finished, to my delight (and slight frustration!), in 2.01.

My question is - can I possibly sustain this type of training (building up to the 20 mile long run) for the full marathon or will I have to resort to a more traditional training plan - running 4/5 times per week? I just feel like the same thing will happen again - I'll get sore and injured from overrunning and I won't be able to fit in any crosstraining. All of the novice training plans I see incorporate at least 3 or 4 runs per week and I just don't think it will work for me.

Has anyone trained and completed a marathon successfully running only once or twice per week? I'm female (30) btw if that makes any difference.

Other advice seems to say, sure, I'll get around the course but I probably won't get the best out of myself time-wise.

thanks!

Krusty_Clown

I'm sure there will be contrary opinions to suggest that you 'just go out and do it' and more than a few posters who will have done what you are asking, but in my opinion, marathon running may not be for you. Your approach is entirely incorrect. Your next goal shouldn't be to run a marathon on two runs a week. Your next goal should be to build up and strengthen your running so you can run a half marathon properly (and then potentially at some point, a marathon).

Have you ever considered that it is your approach that is causing these 'overuse injuries'? I think yout should take a step back and gradually build to a point where you can run 4/5 times per week comfortably (with a medium long run thrown in) and then establish what you're goals are. Otherwise you'll continue to scrape onwards, permanently straddling injury, always wondering why running doesn't work for you, until you ultimately give it up completely ams become another one of those 'I tried running, but my body couldn't handle it' stories.

The good news is that you can run a marathon and you can run 4/5 days a week. You just need to take a step back and build appropriately.

ECOLII

Agree with KC, would see the constant niggles as being quite atypical (especially with trying to balance the explosive movements etc from cross fit) in relatively new runners, the area's of issue need to be address (both from a training and injury perspective) and dealt with and as your body adapts slowly to the demand put on tendons, muscles etc you will find your body able to handle the load required to train.

Train to be a runner, then train to be a marathoner - very few distinguish between the two.

RayCun

When you were running four times a week, and getting all those niggles, how fast were you going?

rom

- have you been fitted out for runners in a proper running shop
- do you use a foam roller
- do you ever run on grass
- do you listen to music when you run all the time. if so then stop as you won't hear yourself hitting the ground hard.
- are you running on the road or TM
- are you doing static stretching and when do you do it?
- are you doing a warmup and what does it consist of if you are?
- What pace do you run at. Do you vary the pace between sessions and what does a typical week running look like.
- Do you run each day at a similar pace?
- Do you run on the day you are doing crossfit/spinning/tabata. have you tried to run with taking a week off from them?

average_runner

You could look at the runnersworld plan, where you run 3 times a week and fit cross training in on other days.


But i would agree with what the lads said above

HelenAnne

I think that running more often during the week prepares my body for the long run at the weekend. I wonder could the shock of a long run at the weekend when you haven't run much during the week be contributing to injury? I always try to make sure that my LSR is well under half my total weekly mileage (probably nearer to 1/3). More easy mileage during the week might actually help to injury proof you (usual boards proviso - if anyone thinks I'm giving bad advice please jump in )

Also, the marathon is pretty hard (in my opinion) - if you find the training hard and you're getting injured, you might find it really tough on the day.

But the good news is that just because you can't run a certain weekly mileage this year without getting injured, that doesn't mean you won't be able to do that mileage next year -- I think accumulated miles over years build up your strength and resistance to injury.

Good luck!

Vancity

Thanks folks, really appreciate all the answers - sorry, I'm 8 hours behind time difference so hence the delay in response!

Rom, have answered your questions below -

rom wrote: »

- have you been fitted out for runners in a proper running shop -

Yes, I have 2 new balance pairs, one for road running and the other for trails.

- do you use a foam roller

Yes, after all gym sessions and at home after running

- do you ever run on grass - Yes - as well as road, beach and trails

- do you listen to music when you run all the time. if so then stop as you won't hear yourself hitting the ground hard.

No, I generally run with 2 friends so we chat but if I'm alone I sometimes listen to a podcast

- are you running on the road or TM - never treadmill

- are you doing static stretching and when do you do it? Yes, a little - after runs. Maybe not enough.

- are you doing a warmup and what does it consist of if you are? - Yes, very slow jog to the beach or seawall where I generally run (5-6 mins); some butt kicks and side shuffle before properly starting to run

- What pace do you run at. Do you vary the pace between sessions and what does a typical week running look like.

LSR - 6.5-7min kms
Midweek run - race pace so approx 5.45-5.50 per km

- Do you run each day at a similar pace? No
- Do you run on the day you are doing crossfit/spinning/tabata. have you tried to run with taking a week off from them?

Definitely not! One workout a day is enough for me

Perhaps I jumped into the HM plan a little early - I'd done a few 5ks and 10ks and thought I was ready but the injuries started almost immediately once I started running 4times a week.

Vancity

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm sure there will be contrary opinions to suggest that you 'just go out and do it' and more than a few posters who will have done what you are asking, but in my opinion, marathon running may not be for you. Your approach is entirely incorrect. Your next goal shouldn't be to run a marathon on two runs a week. Your next goal should be to build up and strengthen your running so you can run a half marathon properly (and then potentially at some point, a marathon).

Have you ever considered that it is your approach that is causing these 'overuse injuries'? I think yout should take a step back and gradually build to a point where you can run 4/5 times per week comfortably (with a medium long run thrown in) and then establish what you're goals are. Otherwise you'll continue to scrape onwards, permanently straddling injury, always wondering why running doesn't work for you, until you ultimately give it up completely ams become another one of those 'I tried running, but my body couldn't handle it' stories.

The good news is that you can run a marathon and you can run 4/5 days a week. You just need to take a step back and build appropriately.

Do you mind me asking what you mean when you say run a half marathon properly? Do you mean faster or with a better training technique regardless of time? Obviously I'm a newbie but I honestly felt great during the HM, I hardly struggled at all other than at mile 10 for about 5 minutes - I felt like I could go around again at the end, hence my disappointment at the 2.01 time I felt fine the days following as well. I definitely plan to do at least 1 more HM plus a few 10ks before the marathon - I'm not planning a marathon for at least 6 months hence why I want to make sure I approach it as best I can.

I haven't had any niggles since easing down to 2 runs per week so perhaps the next step is to add a third easy run and go from there?

Krusty_Clown

Vancity wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what you mean when you say run a half marathon properly? Do you mean faster or with a better training technique regardless of time? Obviously I'm a newbie but I honestly felt great during the HM, I hardly struggled at all other than at mile 10 for about 5 minutes - I felt like I could go around again at the end, hence my disappointment at the 2.01 time I felt fine the days following as well. I definitely plan to do at least 1 more HM plus a few 10ks before the marathon - I'm not planning a marathon for at least 6 months hence why I want to make sure I approach it as best I can.

I haven't had any niggles since easing down to 2 runs per week so perhaps the next step is to add a third easy run and go from there?

Hi Vancity, by 'properly', I mean run a half-marathon from a sufficient base of training (running training) such that you do yourself justice. It's a damn fine time and one you should be happy with, but suggests that if you could get yourself into a routine where you are running 4-5 times per week, you could run a time significantly faster. But it all comes down to what your running goals are. If your grand plan is to run a half marathon and then run a marathon and that's the sum total of your aspirations, then you should be able to do it on 3-4 runs per week, without significantly increasing your risk of injury. At 2 runs per week (one of which is a long run), your risk of injury is significantly increased as you won't have made the necessary adaptations to run longer distances (physically, and physiologically). If you weren't satisfied with your 2:01 in the half marathon, just wait and see how dissatisfied you'll be, if you run a marathon following your current regime.

If on the other hand your aspirations are a little grander - i.e. to develop as a runner and to maximize your potential, you'd likely be better off developing your more basic running skills, such that you do undergo those adaptations that allow you to tackle the stresses and physical demands of longer distances or faster paces.

All of the supplementary training crossfit/spin etc.) means you will be fit - but you won't necessarily be running fit. It's important to remember that your situation isn't unique. Many of us have come from a similar background. Many of us ran on our first half marathons on 1,2 or 3 runs per week, plagued with shin-splints, dodgy knees, it-band issues, hip pain etc, but these aren't necessarily over-use injuries, but potentially, the signs of trying to advance too quickly, without having done the basic groundwork. My own first half-marathon was not dissimilar to your own experience - a 1:54 in Connemara on 1-3 runs per week, plagued with niggles. These days, I run around 80-90 miles per week, and suffer far less from an injury/niggles perspective than I did when I first started out. Not, by any means, holding myself up as as golden example or anything (truth be told, I run a little too much!), just pointing out that sometimes, more running = less physical distress.

So if the plan is just to tick off the marathon, then I'd advise gradually increasing the number of runs per week to 4, and slowly ramping-up the mileage (followed a structured plan, like one of Hal Higdon'd novice plans). But if the plan is to be as good as you can be, then take a step back and focus on becoming a runner, before you focus on becoming a marathon runner.

Vancity

Thanks Krusty_Clown, I think I don't really know what my goals are yet. Of course I want to go faster but I still want to enjoy it, I don't want to be killing myself to take seconds or minutes off a PB, but yeah, I'd love to do a 1.50 HM but that's getting very ambitious! I definitely want to keep running, in that, I don't want to do a marathon just to tick a box and then stop running. So I'm in no rush to get it done. At the same time I don't want to give up my other activities either - running 4-5 times a week doesn't allow for a whole lot of other things unless I start doubling up on days. I need to figure out a balance. I think I'm going to join a running club and go from there because I think just running alone I'll invariably get something wrong and injure myself again.

Krusty_Clown

Vancity wrote: »

At the same time I don't want to give up my other activities either - running 4-5 times a week doesn't allow for a whole lot of other things unless I start doubling up on days. I need to figure out a balance. I think I'm going to join a running club and go from there because I think just running alone I'll invariably get something wrong and injure myself again.

Joining a running club sounds like a wonderful idea. And you're entirely right, not to want to give up the other stuff too. Life is too short not to focus on what you enjoy doing. Another reason to stick to the shorter stuff and leave the marathon until later, as it just requires too much commitment. Anyway, best of luck with whatever you decide.