Kicked out of RSA

William F

I was kicked out of an RSA in New Zealand because I didn't remove my hat.

I told the bar owner my grandfather fought with the IRA during the troubled times and because of that I wouldn't be taking it off.

The bar owner called a bouncer who threw me out.

At what point did the bar owner think I was going to take my hat off to forces who invaded and occupied OUR country?

Iranoutofideas

questionmark?

Sure..........

Manic Moran

You're joking, right?

Assuming that you are, in fact, actually serious, you remove your headgear when you are in an RSA, as it is their place, their rules, and you are their guest. If you are that stuck up about it that you object to the New Zealand military, which I doubt had a particular involvement in 'the troubled times', I suggest you just don't go into the RSA in the first place.

Link is appropriate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9hkhKVq5rM#t=179

bpmurray

The NZ armed forces have never been in Ireland, so your grandfather (currently spinning in his grave) never fought them.

Stay in NZ - we don't want morons like you here.

William F

bpmurray wrote: »

The NZ armed forces have never been in Ireland, so your grandfather (currently spinning in his grave) never fought them.

Stay in NZ - we don't want morons like you here.

Contrary to popular belief, you moron, they were involved in suppressing the 1916 rising

William F

They were also deployed in Ireland during the troubles on intelligence operations

Zambia

I find it best to leave Irish politics in Ireland.

If you care enough about the "struggle" why are you at the furthest point from it.

Go home.

Manic Moran

William F wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief, you moron, they were involved in suppressing the 1916 rising

Not as a unit, mind, unless you count the New Zealand Hospital Ship Marama. They just happened to be there.

Sergeant Frederick Nevin NZMC from Christchurch, Corporal Alexander Don NZFA from Dunedin, Corporal John Garland NZMC from Auckland, Lance Corporal Finlay McLeod NZE from Milton and Private Edward Waring NZR from Northland. Three were on convalescent leave, the other two from the hospital ship, they found themselves as part of the group defending Trinity College.

William F

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not as a unit, mind, unless you count the New Zealand Hospital Ship Marama. They just happened to be there.

Sergeant Frederick Nevin NZMC from Christchurch, Corporal Alexander Don NZFA from Dunedin, Corporal John Garland NZMC from Auckland, Lance Corporal Finlay McLeod NZE from Milton and Private Edward Waring NZR from Northland. Three were on convalescent leave, the other two from the hospital ship, they found themselves as part of the group defending Trinity College.

By 'defending' you mean shooting Irish volunteers and killing them.

IrishTrajan

So, you went to someone else's country, acted like a stuck up ass, and now you're complaining because you got kicked out?

You didn't even fight, your grandfather did, what the hell does it have to do with you?

SterlingArcher

William F wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief, you moron, they were involved in suppressing the 1916 rising

Learn from history, from mistakes of the past. History is called history for a reason, it is In the past. Quit living in the past.

Would you condone an American dicking about in some German place cause his paw fought some Krauts in world war 2. No I'd imagine you'd call him a dick.

You may think you were patriotic, you were in fact just the d word.

walshyn93

SterlingArcher wrote: »

Learn from history, from mistakes of the past. History is called history for a reason, it is In the past. Quit living in the past.

Would you condone an American dicking about in some German place cause his paw fought some Krauts in world war 2. No I'd imagine you'd call him a dick.

You may think you were patriotic, you were in fact just the d word.

Not that I agree with the OP in any way, but Nazi Germany and any entity associated with it no longer exists. Britain is still the same country with the same ruling family, so the comparison isn't really fair.

Manic Moran

William F wrote: »

By 'defending' you mean shooting Irish volunteers and killing them.

Yes, I do. Remind me, why did the Irish Volunteers decide that a place of learning was going to be a suitable place to hold an insurrection that soldiers on leave had to defend it?

There's nothing wrong with venerating those who fought for Irish independence. But there is similarly nothing wrong with acknowledging those who fought for the government, which included a bunch of Irish lads. Neither side was particularly wrong.

stoneill

William F wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief, you moron, they were involved in suppressing the 1916 rising

Never heard that before - Never read about any NZ regiments being deployed to Ireland. Plenty of ANZAC's in Dublin on R&R alright but not deployed.
NZ regiments not on any list of regiments that I have read about.

59th (2nd North Midland) Division - Major General A Sandbach:
B Squadron, The North Irish Horse
59th (2/1st North Midland) Divisional Cyclst Company
C Squadron, 2/1st Northumberland Hussars
59th Dvisional Signal Company
176th Infantry Bde (2nd Lincoln & Leicester) Brigadier C. G. Blackader:
2/4th Bn, The Lincolnshire Regiment
2/5th Bn, The Lincolnshire Regiment
2/4th Bn, The Leicestershire Regiment
2/5th Bn, The Leicestershire Regiment
177th Infantry Bde (2nd Staffordshire) Brigadier L G Carlton:
2/5th Bn, The South Staffordshire Regiment
2/6th Bn, The South Staffordshire Regiment
2/5th Bn, The North Staffordshire Regiment
2/6th Bn, The North Staffordshire Regiment
178th Infantry Bde (2nd Nottingham & Derby) Colonel E W S K Maconchy:
2/5th Bn, The Sherwood Foresters
2/6th Bn, The Sherwood Foresters
2/7th Bn, The Sherwood Foresters ("The Robin Hoods")
2/8th Bn, The Sherwood Foresters
295th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery
296th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery
297th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery
298th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery (H)
59th Divisional Ammuniton Column
467th Field Company, Royal Engineers
469th Field Company, Royal Engineers
470th Field Company, Royal Engineers
2/1st North Midland Field Ambullance
2/2nd North Midland Field Ambullance
2/3rd North Midland Field Ambullance
59th Divisional Train
59th Mobile Veterinary Section
59th (North MIdland) Sanitary Section.

Morpheus

William F wrote: »

I was kicked out of an RSA in New Zealand because I didn't remove my hat.

I told the bar owner my grandfather fought with the IRA during the troubled times and because of that I wouldn't be taking it off.

The bar owner called a bouncer who threw me out.

At what point did the bar owner think I was going to take my hat off to forces who invaded and occupied OUR country?

You disrespected their rules. You deserved to be kicked out and you probably gave some of us back home a bad f**king name.

Can we find the name of this RSA so we can send an apology? This little sh*t doesn't represent me!

Savage93

William F wrote: »

I was kicked out of an RSA in New Zealand because I didn't remove my hat.

I told the bar owner my grandfather fought with the IRA during the troubled times and because of that I wouldn't be taking it off.

The bar owner called a bouncer who threw me out.

At what point did the bar owner think I was going to take my hat off to forces who invaded and occupied OUR country?

Oh my giddy aunt, I thought that tossers like you no longer existed. Pity you weren't ejected from the RSA with a few swift kicks up the arse, you gob****e.

John_D80

Why is this in the military forum?

knucklehead6

John_D80 wrote: »

Why is this in the military forum?

Cos if he put it on AH they'd be wondering what he was doing in Royal & Sun Alliance offices in NZ

granturismo

William F wrote: »

...

I told the bar owner my grandfather fought with the IRA during the troubled times and because of that I wouldn't be taking it off.
...
At what point did the bar owner think I was going to take my hat off to forces who invaded and occupied OUR country?

I've never heard of 'the troubled times', sounds like something from Game of Thrones, the trouble times are coming Jon Snow.

The 'Troubles' started 50 years after the Easter Rising. It seems the OP is suggesting his grandfather fought in the Easter Rising.

William F

I think the problem with the majority of posters on this military forum is that they refuse to recognize that the Irish state's legacy is built on the actions of those who went out and fought in 1916.

They rather acknowledge Irish troops role in the creation of the 'empire' while completely refuting that Ireland is no longer apart of that abomination.

They are the complete opposite of a 'shinnerbot'.

The mod has showed complete bias, as he always does, and allows posters to throw around insults like 'tosser' while this behavior is completely unacceptable in other forums.

As always, the attitudes on this forum do not reflect Irish public opinion.

By far, the most treacherous, unpatriotic posters I've ever encountered in my entire life.

Mellor

William F wrote: »

I think the problem with the majority of posters on this military forum is that they refuse to recognize that the Irish state's legacy is built on the actions of those who went out and fought in 1916.

They rather acknowledge Irish troops role in the creation of the 'empire' while completely refuting that Ireland is no longer apart of that abomination.

They are the complete opposite of a 'shinnerbot'.

The mod has showed complete bias, as he always does, and allows posters to throw around insults like 'tosser' while this behavior is completely unacceptable in other forums.

As always, the attitudes on this forum do not reflect Irish public opinion.

By far, the most treacherous, unpatriotic posters I've ever encountered in my entire life.

There's nothing wrong with being patriotic in the first place. But to decide you were above the requests of the barman (who was unlikely to be the owner btw) was ridiculous. Even more so when your reasons were because New Zealand invaded and occupied OUR country - which never happened.
Drop the attitude FFS, you are a guest in their country. You could end up in a much worse situation than being asked to leave a pub in you continue on like a dick.

knucklehead6

William F wrote: »

I think the problem with the majority of posters on this military forum is that they refuse to recognize that the Irish state's legacy is built on the actions of those who went out and fought in 1916.

They rather acknowledge Irish troops role in the creation of the 'empire' while completely refuting that Ireland is no longer apart of that abomination.

They are the complete opposite of a 'shinnerbot'.

The mod has showed complete bias, as he always does, and allows posters to throw around insults like 'tosser' while this behavior is completely unacceptable in other forums.

As always, the attitudes on this forum do not reflect Irish public opinion.

By far, the most treacherous, unpatriotic posters I've ever encountered in my entire life.

So, the vast majority of posters here, and most of them serve under the flag, they're unpatriotic??? Riiiiight...

Remember, most shinnerbots considered the Republic of Ireland to NOT be the 'true' Ireland, and that therefore anyone who considers the Republic as a legitimate sovereign nation state would have been unpatriotic in their eyes.

Jawgap

William F wrote: »

I think the problem with the majority of posters on this military forum is that they refuse to recognize that the Irish state's legacy is built on the actions of those who went out and fought in 1916.

They rather acknowledge Irish troops role in the creation of the 'empire' while completely refuting that Ireland is no longer apart of that abomination.

They are the complete opposite of a 'shinnerbot'.

The mod has showed complete bias, as he always does, and allows posters to throw around insults like 'tosser' while this behavior is completely unacceptable in other forums.

As always, the attitudes on this forum do not reflect Irish public opinion.

By far, the most treacherous, unpatriotic posters I've ever encountered in my entire life.

The Volunteers, Citizen Army etc from 1916 are part of the legacy - for example, who did they draw their inspiration from? Who took what they added to and added more to it?

Plus, I dare say like most Irish families matters are not as straightforward as you make out. One of my grandfathers was involved in the Border Campaign and was interned, my paternal grandfather was the son of a Connaught Ranger wounded at First Mons. He was also the nephew of a soldier in the Citizen Army who married a woman, two of whose brothers served in the Irish Guards and another who served in the Irish Army.......

Point being, you have chosen to fix on one personality in your family - when if you dug around you'd find out what most people find out - history is rarely black and white, especially in Irish families

EDIT: Regardless of the location, is it not good manners remove a hat when you go indoors? If memory serves it's considered unchivalrous becasue it suggests you don't trust your host. I bet you leave it on when you shake hands too.

kidneyfan

Fair play sir. You stood up for yourself and that's what matters. No true Irishman would have behaved differently. Why were you wearing a hat in the middle of summer and was it only the 1 hat?

Reminds me of the time I went into the Rex bar in an Ireland shirt and Johnny Adair and Billy Wright came up to me giving it all that, I explained that they were in Ireland and they should support Ireland. There was a bit of a barney but after I won and bought them a each a pint we all got along great and I taught them to sing the Soldier's Song. Happy Days.

airuser

As a Guest in Bar, the Bar owner has his rules and he has the right to enforce them.

Morpheus

William F wrote: »

I think the problem with the majority of posters on this military forum is that they refuse to recognize that the Irish state's legacy is built on the actions of those who went out and fought in 1916.

They rather acknowledge Irish troops role in the creation of the 'empire' while completely refuting that Ireland is no longer apart of that abomination.

They are the complete opposite of a 'shinnerbot'.

The mod has showed complete bias, as he always does, and allows posters to throw around insults like 'tosser' while this behavior is completely unacceptable in other forums.

As always, the attitudes on this forum do not reflect Irish public opinion.

By far, the most treacherous, unpatriotic posters I've ever encountered in my entire life.

[MOD]
Backseat moderation.
Insulting all posters on military forum.
Bar the "complete opposite to shinnerbot" compliment, thanks for recognizing that.
Have you read the charter yourself?
You've had your one free exposure, prepare for moderation downrange.
Opinions are welcome, claptrap and vitriol is not.
Warning to everyone else, no name calling or BS. keep it clean or prepare for an extended absenteeism.
[/MOD]

Manic Moran

Jawgap wrote: »

EDIT: Regardless of the location, is it not good manners remove a hat when you go indoors? If memory serves it's considered unchivalrous becasue it suggests you don't trust your host. I bet you leave it on when you shake hands too.

Depends, really. American hats, like the cavalry Stetson, are worn indoors, such as at the bar, but not when eating. As a result, I had to do a little negotiating with Legacy (Australian veterans group) when I was giving a presentation there. The hat came off except for when I was called to the front, and then came off again immediately after the ceremonies were complete.

Interestingly, RSA raised no objection, though it was just a presentation and after-work drinks in the main hall, not the bar.

EGOSHEA

Jawgap wrote: »

The Volunteers, Citizen Army etc from 1916 are part of the legacy - for example, who did they draw their inspiration from? Who took what they added to and added more to it?

Plus, I dare say like most Irish families matters are not as straightforward as you make out. One of my grandfathers was involved in the Border Campaign and was interned, my paternal grandfather was the son of a Connaught Ranger wounded at First Mons. He was also the nephew of a soldier in the Citizen Army who married a woman, two of whose brothers served in the Irish Guards and another who served in the Irish Army.......

Point being, you have chosen to fix on one personality in your family - when if you dug around you'd find out what most people find out - history is rarely black and white, especially in Irish families

EDIT: Regardless of the location, is it not good manners remove a hat when you go indoors? If memory serves it's considered unchivalrous becasue it suggests you don't trust your host. I bet you leave it on when you shake hands too.

Very true. My grandfather was in the Irish army and had a brother who - were it not for a crossroads ambush by the IRA - would have been toast one night (Black and Tans). My uncle was also in the DF but, after a rather gruesome trip to the Congo, joined the BA and was a paratrooper.

On my father's side, he has brothers who would identify as Republican but one brother who, despite being in the NSR/SM for years, loves all things British. I love our apparent contradictions!

GobBass

This reminds me of the old Ron White drunk in public joke:

selous

Next you'll read a guy posting how he got kicked out of a republican pub for wearing a Glasgow Rangers jersey,

cruasder777

Jawgap wrote: »

The Volunteers, Citizen Army etc from 1916 are part of the legacy - for example, who did they draw their inspiration from? Who took what they added to and added more to it?

Plus, I dare say like most Irish families matters are not as straightforward as you make out. One of my grandfathers was involved in the Border Campaign and was interned, my paternal grandfather was the son of a Connaught Ranger wounded at First Mons. He was also the nephew of a soldier in the Citizen Army who married a woman, two of whose brothers served in the Irish Guards and another who served in the Irish Army.......

Point being, you have chosen to fix on one personality in your family - when if you dug around you'd find out what most people find out - history is rarely black and white, especially in Irish families

EDIT: Regardless of the location, is it not good manners remove a hat when you go indoors? If memory serves it's considered unchivalrous becasue it suggests you don't trust your host. I bet you leave it on when you shake hands too.

Guards officers have a tradition of wearing peaked caps dining and in the ante room (guards officers dont call it the mess)its a guards thing, Garrison Sgt Majors in the Guards have strange traditions too.

bpmurray

William F wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief, you moron, they were involved in suppressing the 1916 rising

Ah - you mean the ANZAC guys on R&R in Dublin in 1916. You mentioned the Troubles so I thought you were talking about since 1969. Get your facts straight.

And I called you a moron for your attitude, not because of the information. You sound like the moronic "Irish" in the USA who contributed to the IRA cause because their great grandfather once had a pint of Guinness.

bpmurray

William F wrote: »

I think the problem with the majority of posters on this military forum is that they refuse to recognize that the Irish state's legacy is built on the actions of those who went out and fought in 1916.

They rather acknowledge Irish troops role in the creation of the 'empire' while completely refuting that Ireland is no longer apart of that abomination.

They are the complete opposite of a 'shinnerbot'.

The mod has showed complete bias, as he always does, and allows posters to throw around insults like 'tosser' while this behavior is completely unacceptable in other forums.

As always, the attitudes on this forum do not reflect Irish public opinion.

By far, the most treacherous, unpatriotic posters I've ever encountered in my entire life.

I don't think anyone denies that the 1916 Rising was a defining part of our history. However, most of us acknowledge that we're now in the 21st century and don't need to dwell in the past. We acknowledge and respect and are grateful for what Connolly and Pearse and all the others did for us, but we equally want to get on with building and maintaining a modern country in a modern century: we have scant regard for those who still live in a world which is two centuries and a number of generations distant.

If you want to show how great an Irishman you are, you should extend the hand of friendship to everyone in your adopted country. In particular, I presume you're doing all in your power to support the Maori who today, in many situations, are treated like the Irish peasants back in 1916, donating a goodly percentage of your pay to help.

Stovepipe

same kind of potted history in our family: Grandad fought in War of Independence in the IRA and later joined the Free State Army, fought in the Civil War, did 40 years in. He detested the Provos...... His brother died on the Somme in 1916..... Grandad's two sons served, in particular in Cyprus, the Leb and the Congo. Their sons did their three. I did eleven in the Air Corps and two of my uncles did long stints in the Naval Service and Slua respectively. Hard to find a family in Ireland with no service.

EGOSHEA

Stovepipe wrote: »

same kind of potted history in our family: Grandad fought in War of Independence in the IRA and later joined the Free State Army, fought in the Civil War, did 40 years in. He detested the Provos...... His brother died on the Somme in 1916..... Grandad's two sons served, in particular in Cyprus, the Leb and the Congo. Their sons did their three. I did eleven in the Air Corps and two of my uncles did long stints in the Naval Service and Slua respectively. Hard to find a family in Ireland with no service.

I'm reading "He Lost Himself Completely" at the moment. It's about those Irish soldiers/officers who fought with the British in WWI and were treated at Richmond War Hospital for 'shell shock' (which opened just two months after the Easter Rising and received frequent refarrals from what is today St. Bricin's).

It's striking to read accounts of British and Republican forces trading shots across the grounds of hospitals in which Irish soldiers fighting for Britain recovered from their 'mental wounds'. A complicated history indeed.

I'D NEVER TAKE MY HAT OFF TO ANY OF THEM THOUGH!!!!

kidneyfan

EGOSHEA wrote: »

I'm reading "He Lost Himself Completely" at the moment. It's about those Irish soldiers/officers who fought with the British in WWI and were treated at Richmond War Hospital for 'shell shock' (which opened just two months after the Easter Rising and received frequent refarrals from what is today St. Bricin's).

It's striking to read accounts of British and Republican forces trading shots across the grounds of hospitals in which Irish soldiers fighting for Britain recovered from their 'mental wounds'. A complicated history indeed.

I'D NEVER TAKE MY HAT OFF TO ANY OF THEM THOUGH!!!!

I take my hat off to you sir. You're the real hero.

Brendan Bendar

Wow!

That cap generated a fair bit of heat!!

Maoltuile

bpmurray wrote: »

The NZ armed forces have never been in Ireland, so your grandfather (currently spinning in his grave) never fought them.

Wholly incorrect, as a matter of fact. A number of ANZACs on leave in Dublin during the Easter Rising formed the basis of the defence of Trinity College (they were the "snipers" on the roof of the college that the Irish 1916 veterans talk about in their accounts).

Stay in NZ - we don't want morons like you here.

Whatever about his manners, you do owe him some apology - he was actually right.

Maoltuile

bpmurray wrote: »

However, most of us acknowledge that we're now in the 21st century and don't need to dwell in the past. We acknowledge and respect and are grateful for what Connolly and Pearse and all the others did for us, but we equally want to get on with building and maintaining a modern country in a modern century: we have scant regard for those who still live in a world which is two centuries and a number of generations distant.

You say that, but this very forum has sub-forums devoted to WWI, WWII and the Cold War, so many people clearly disagree with you about the past being another country.