Revenue protection and passengers standing

linguist

First time poster in this part of boards so greetings to all.

I just thought I'd throw out something that's been on my mind for the last couple of weeks since it happened, just to see if anyone else sees my point.

I was on an evening northern commuter train (Dublin-Drogheda) about 2/3 weeks ago when the revenue protection guys appeared. It was a busy train with quite a few passengers standing out to Malahide and even beyond. Two guys sitting in my carriage got done for alleged fare evasion. In both cases it was to do with social welfare passes. I'm not an expert either on the passes or the exact procedure, but basically the passes were confiscated, the guys' details were taken down and they were told that the matter was being followed up. What's clear is that they were judged, at that time, not to have paid the appropriate fare.

Now, my point is that after all that, they remained in their seats as other compliant passengers, including me, were left standing. I felt it better not to intervene there and then in what was a slightly tense situation. However, am I alone in thinking that such passengers - if they are not being removed from the train - should at the very least have to give up their seats? And should I pursue the matter more formally with Iarnród Éireann?

I think I should, in the interests of full disclosure, say that both passengers were going to Balbriggan and were clearly not Irish born. I wonder if fear of the 'r' word might be a factor...

Hilly Bill

What outcome would you want if you pursued it with Irish Rail?

linguist

I feel that passengers occupying seats that they do not have a valid ticket for should be required to vacate them - as would be the case for reserved seats or sitting in first class with a standard class ticket. This should be a matter of policy. But I've posted here to see what others think and I've set out the scenario exactly as it was. I was just amazed that these guys were left in their seats when there were a large number of people standing.

Crunchienut

Not sure what applies on Irish Rail but the fine on Luas is also known as a penalty fare and, as I understand it, it allows you complete your journey. Maybe the same applies on the train and it would mean the evaders couldn't be asked to stand?

I'm going a bit off topic here but my pet hate is the selective manner in which evaders are either fined or simply put off Luas - my experience is that the aggressive ones just get put off whereas others get fined. Surely all should be fined regardless of their attitude or behaviour

goingnowhere

Crunchienut wrote: »

Not sure what applies on Irish Rail but the fine on Luas is also known as a penalty fare and, as I understand it, it allows you complete your journey.

Not so, only if the penalty is paid there and then must a ticket valid to the end of the line be issued

Anyone without a valid ticket should be removed at the earliest conveinence

Crunchienut

goingnowhere wrote: »

Not so, only if the penalty is paid there and then must a ticket valid to the end of the line be issued

I can't argue as I am not familiar with Luas Bye Laws. My post was based on information given to me at a "Meet Luas Managers" session. They also led me to believe that Luas CSOs are not authorised to accept payments and that SFNs can only be paid via post or the website. However, beyond that, I have no expertise in the subject

cdebru

They have been issued with a standard fare, they have x time to pay it but they now have a valid ticket to complete the journey.

end of the road

linguist wrote: »

First time poster in this part of boards so greetings to all.

I just thought I'd throw out something that's been on my mind for the last couple of weeks since it happened, just to see if anyone else sees my point.

I was on an evening northern commuter train (Dublin-Drogheda) about 2/3 weeks ago when the revenue protection guys appeared. It was a busy train with quite a few passengers standing out to Malahide and even beyond. Two guys sitting in my carriage got done for alleged fare evasion. In both cases it was to do with social welfare passes. I'm not an expert either on the passes or the exact procedure, but basically the passes were confiscated, the guys' details were taken down and they were told that the matter was being followed up. What's clear is that they were judged, at that time, not to have paid the appropriate fare.

Now, my point is that after all that, they remained in their seats as other compliant passengers, including me, were left standing. I felt it better not to intervene there and then in what was a slightly tense situation. However, am I alone in thinking that such passengers - if they are not being removed from the train - should at the very least have to give up their seats? And should I pursue the matter more formally with Iarnród Éireann?

I think I should, in the interests of full disclosure, say that both passengers were going to Balbriggan and were clearly not Irish born. I wonder if fear of the 'r' word might be a factor...

this mythical fear of racism had nothing to do with it. the revenue protection unit people didn't tell them to move from the seat because there was no point, and they don't have to nor should they be expected to move. i would leave it and move on.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

this mythical fear of racism had nothing to do with it. the revenue protection unit people didn't tell them to move from the seat because there was no point, and they don't have to nor should they be expected to move. i would leave it and move on.

The main point being that passes they were allegedly using fraudulently were taken from them and this may well mean savings for Irish Rail as well as for the Irish State.

Unless of course these two people are employed by a company as carers.......

Red Alert

They should change from the standard fare to being a penalty and immediate removal at the next station. It could be worded that the person has to leave the train and exit from the next station, to ensure that they purchase the correct ticket for their intended journey and are familiar with the procedures for doing so.

_Kaiser_

Red Alert wrote: »

They should change from the standard fare to being a penalty and immediate removal at the next station. It could be worded that the person has to leave the train and exit from the next station, to ensure that they purchase the correct ticket for their intended journey and are familiar with the procedures for doing so.

Was just thinking that as I was reading down Surely the easiest solution (as well as an effective deterrent/immediate consequence) is to throw such people off at the next station/stop whether it's bus or train.

Letting them travel on home seems as nonsensical as the situation where you can fail your driving test and still drive home afterwards.

end of the road

the current system is a cash cow for irish rail so its not going anywhere

Hilly Bill

What's the point of throwing them off when they will just get the next train anyway?

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What's the point of throwing them off when they will just get the next train anyway?

They will have to pay for that though as the inspectors took their travel passes:)

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

They will have to pay for that though as the inspectors took their travel passes:)

Not if they get on and off at unmanned stations and dont get caught by the rpu again.

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What's the point of throwing them off when they will just get the next train anyway?

Presumably they'd buy a ticket at that station for fear of being caught twice in the one day.