Course Butchery

spacecoyote

I'm a member in grange castle, who were taken over by synergy golf last year.

On the one hand I can see that they are making investments in the club - they've improved the standard on the old 7 hole course, added definition to the fairways & put money into improving the club house.

But on the main course itself as a whole they appear to have found someone with a serious chainsaw fetish.

Over the years there was a decent amount of planting on the course. You could see that, in time, this would add character & definition to the course. But rather than cultivate these wooded areas they have literally cut them away to nothing.

Grange castle may never feature in golf digests top 100 or win awards,but it's always been a solid test & one of the best public courses I've played. But now, in what I can only assume is some effort to speed up play for society days, they are removing all of the hazards on the course and turning it more into an open field.

Really struggling to justify giving the place another years membership given the moves that have been made.

Has anyone else seen anything like it elsewhere where new management/grounds staff have come in and literally demolished anything that was giving the course any definition?

It's sad to see & so disappointing

dan_ep82

Have you any before and after pictures?

Or even pictures showing what they took down?

Seems a strange move to remove tree's unless they have a danger of falling

spacecoyote

Sorry Dan, don't have any handy before & afters.

This is the 10th green as it used to be



Now, none of the trees you see behind the Green from the left edge of the image as far as the flagstick are there anymore.

As you walk up the fairway now you can pretty much see as far as the course boundaries with an unobstructed view

Macker1

I can see where you are coming from alright. Most of the work that had been done has been an improvement but when I played my first round just on Sunday I was surprised to see what had been done in regards to certain areas being completely cut away. It was never a course that demanded much accuracy off the tee and because of that its paradise for big hitters with little or no impact for wayward tee shots.

The membership has also gone up in price this year which I'm not surprised at given that Synergy are trying to turn a profit on their investment. I don't have a big issue with that as long as the members interests remain the focal point. 600+ members need to be looked after correctly and not be impacted by the society / green-fee paying side of things.

I rang up last Monday at 7:30am to book a 1:30 tee time in the Sunday Comp for myself and two regular playing partners. The chap that answered the phone at first tried to tell me that members don't play that late in the comp. To which I replied it was the only time that suited due to work constraints. He booked us in but I got the distinct impression that this was causing them an issue as they would have to lose a potential tee slot for green fees.

Time will tell how this year will go on

PARlance

Sad to hear that Space, I wasn't a fan of the changes they made last year and that was just trimming of the heavy rough in places like the 16th as you know yourself... There wasn't much heavy rough on the course to start with, so I really didn't see the need to go down that road.

That's a real pity about them chopping down trees. You're not the type put up a post like that on a whim so I'm guessing they've really butchered it.

It was an open enough course to start with, but there was real potential for it to get even better as it matured, the back 9 in particular....which would hold it's place in any members club inspite of it's tame finish in 17&18.

Where did they start to go chopping?

Slicemeister

That looks a shame. Are there more of the same opinion as yourself space?

neckedit

spacecoyote wrote: »

Sorry Dan, don't have any handy before & afters.

This is the 10th green as it used to be



Now, none of the trees you see behind the Green from the left edge of the image as far as the flagstick are there anymore.

As you walk up the fairway now you can pretty much see as far as the course boundaries with an unobstructed view

Sorry, was a member ther a few years back,
the trees your showing there in that image.
where they ever even in play?
do they not just seprate the 10th from the 11th?
if i'm right, that is gonna have no impact on play at all in a positive way?!

dan_ep82

spacecoyote wrote: »

Sorry Dan, don't have any handy before & afters.

This is the 10th green as it used to be

*snip*

Now, none of the trees you see behind the Green from the left edge of the image as far as the flagstick are there anymore.

As you walk up the fairway now you can pretty much see as far as the course boundaries with an unobstructed view

What good could that do? Is that the usual miss for most people?

My favourite holes in Headfort are the 8th and 11th which are bordered by tree's all the way down. That and the approach to green on the 10th define parkland for me. You feel you could be playing anywhere blocked off from the rest of the world.

I take it they never outlined the plans to the members?

PARlance

dan_ep82 wrote: »

What good could that do? Is that the usual miss for most people?

Very little to no good apart from ruining what I thought was a lovely hole. Used to love getting to the 10th and knowing that there was an nice stretch of holes ahead.

It's not really a miss either. Most of the trees are well behind the green. I've never seen anyone go long there.
The ones on the very left come into play on a very rare ocassion. It would involve a nice pull to achieve that.

Barnaboy

Makes no sense to me either. Play the course regularly and it is probably the most open course I know. Why do it? They cost nothing to maintain, apart from an occasional trim...

spacecoyote

Slicemeister wrote: »

That looks a shame. Are there more of the same opinion as yourself space?

When they started to cut back the rough & define fairways a bit more I think the initial reactions were wholly positive but I haven't heard a single person react positively to the trees.

Par, yeah, it's just getting a bit too much now. All the trees/scrub at back of 3rd green gone. The trees to the left in front of the 7th tee box that used to gobble up any pulled drives are essentially all gone. As has all the trees at the back of the 8th tee box. All the growth at back of 10th green & down left side of 11th is gone. They've cut back a lot on the left side of the 14th as well as the left of the 15th, all the heavy rough & the bushes & trees at the water on 15th on the left.

There's more that I can't think of. As you can, its a young course & you could see that the areas of planting would have helped it grow into a more mature parkland course, but not the way that things are going now

3putt

Think they cut a bit down beside the par 3 8th aswell in between the green and the tee box for the 9th. Stupid really as it broke up the 2 holes and if you did hit a bit left you were reloading.

spacecoyote

PARlance wrote: »

Very little to no good apart from ruining what I thought was a lovely hole. Used to love getting to the 10th and knowing that there was an nice stretch of holes ahead.

It's not really a miss either. Most of the trees are well behind the green. I've never seen anyone go long there.
The ones on the very left come into play on a very rare ocassion. It would involve a nice pull to achieve that.

Exactly, they defined the gap between 10 & 11. You would walk through & look right & left to figure out what challenge awaited you on a nice par 3 which leads off a nice run as far as 16 & were only really in play with a pulled/hooked approach. They line a hazard. Removal certainly wouldn't speed up play

dan_ep82

PARlance wrote: »

Very little to no good apart from ruining what I thought was a lovely hole. Used to love getting to the 10th and knowing that there was an nice stretch of holes ahead.

It's not really a miss either. Most of the trees are well behind the green. I've never seen anyone go long there.
The ones on the very left come into play on a very rare ocassion. It would involve a nice pull to achieve that.

Seems a strange move, has anyone asked why it was done?

There has to be some reasoning behind it, they have to know the tree's cost money so no sense in ripping them up

spacecoyote

AGM will be coming up shortly, will be amazed if It's not raised

Macker1

New greenskeeper

[IMG][/img]http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121031094501/texaschainsawmassacre/images/thumb/b/b0/Leatherface_-_TCM3D_promo.png/500px-Leatherface_-_TCM3D_promo.png

PARlance

spacecoyote wrote: »

AGM will be coming up shortly, will be amazed if It's not raised

Subs are edging up too, personally I think that's a big mistake, at €805 it's within sight of that 1k mark that will get you in to quite a few (what I would class as) better courses/clubs.

Wombatman

Happening in two courses in Galway I play. Trees, bunkers, scrub and very heavy rough being removed. Justification is to speed up play and make courses easier to maintain. Surely the slope of the courses will have to be reevaluated?

ronnie3585

Wombatman wrote: »

Happening in two courses in Galway I play. Trees, bunkers, scrub and very heavy rough being removed. Justification is to speed up play and make courses easier to maintain. Surely the slope of the courses will have to be reevaluated?

Which courses?

MisterAnarchy

I know in my own course alot of large trees were removed around greens that blocked the sunlight getting at the greens during the winter.
Could this be a reason ?

At the time of the butchery ,I thought the club had lost their marbles and on some holes they definitely took out too many trees but overall the greens are much better as a result.

Ciaranra

No doubt its for the greens, more to do with keep play moving imo.
Gets very busy in summer always enjoy playing this course great course for scoring, but if i ever moan about slow play its been in grange castle

FWVT

I agree with the above sentiments regarding Grange Castle. Another slash job that doesn't make sense to me is the total removal of the trees separating the 10th green from the 18th tee box. Now it's just totally open space.

And why the hell did they remove every bin around the course?

spacecoyote

FWVT wrote: »

I agree with the above sentiments regarding Grange Castle. Another slash job that doesn't make sense to me is the total removal of the trees separating the 10th green from the 18th tee box. Now it's just totally open space.

And why the hell did they remove every bin around the course?

I've noticed that myself about the bins too. Had a tea out with me on Saturday morning which I finished on the 1st hole & think it was the 5th hole maybe before I found a bin to dump it. I wouldn't dump on a golf course, but GC gets a fair bit of traffic that wouldn't necessarily be so bothered with waiting to find one

slave1

Have to say I'm not a fan of this (removal of bins) leads to crap building up in the bag, then you forget about it and presented with a stink a few weeks later. In fairness I can understand clubs wanting to save money but removing bins that are already there and that only needs emptying once a week at most, is missing out on a small aspect of course presentation that makes a difference to me anyways...

Rikand

Very sorry to hear about the removal of all the trees at your course. There's nothing that maddens me more! A tree should only ever be removed if it represents a clear and present danger to the users of the golf course..... that's it.

Dr_Colossus

Rikand wrote: »

Very sorry to hear about the removal of all the trees at your course. There's nothing that maddens me more! A tree should only ever be removed if it represents a clear and present danger to the users of the golf course..... that's it.

Don't agree, in my home club BlackBush there are a number of very unfair trees adjoining the fairways which penalise a good shot but a more errant shot can have a clear swing. The worst example is that there are 3 trees 200 yards from the green on the left of the par 5 10th hole just where a good drive would land. The fairway slopes from right to left and there's a bunker on the right so a good draw away from the bunker will usually land you in the trees either forcing you to hack sideways or stab forward towards an appropriate lay out distance.

Trees should be strategically placed requiring you to think your way around and penalise those errant shots and not penalise good ones. Generally agree that the removal of trees is a bad development but not when they were poorly thought out when initially planted (can't vouch for the case of Grange Castle as have only ever played the front 9 a few years ago)

Rikand

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Don't agree, in my home club BlackBush there are a number of very unfair trees adjoining the fairways which penalise a good shot but a more errant shot can have a clear swing. The worst example is that there are 3 trees 200 yards from the green on the left of the par 5 10th hole just where a good drive would land. The fairway slopes from right to left and there's a bunker on the right so a good draw away from the bunker will usually land you in the trees either forcing you to hack sideways or stab forward towards an appropriate lay out distance.

Trees should be strategically placed requiring you to think your way around and penalise those errant shots and not penalise good ones. Generally agree that the removal of trees is a bad development but not when they were poorly thought out when initially planted (can't vouch for the case of Grange Castle as have only ever played the front 9 a few years ago)

My argument is referring to what's happening in Grange Castle though as described by the Original Poster where trees that aren't interferring with play are being removed. That's the kind of thing I dislike.

Sounds to me though with your course, you're just playing the 10th hole wrong. It's a par 5, so the intention is probably to have you lay up short of the trees/bunker, play the hole as nature intended and as a 3-shotter.

spacecoyote

Rikand wrote: »

My argument is referring to what's happening in Grange Castle though as described by the Original Poster where trees that aren't interferring with play are being removed. That's the kind of thing I dislike.
.

Exactly right rikand, seems to be chopping for the sake of chopping.

When it first opened there was a large tree in the middle of the 4th hole landing area.

That was removed when it became a risk, which is entirely valid.

None of the recent "improvements" seem to be adding any value & if anything detract from the aesthetics & challenge of the course

cgh

Played GC yesterday,
I wasnt a big fan of it years ago, but seen as I hadnt played it in a long time. I was actually very surprised with it.

yes there is a big lack of trees, but overall the course was in great shape, greens were excellent.

I know 17 and 18 are weak holes, but 18 could be a par 4 not a par 5.

otherwise will be back playing there in the summer to play.

PARlance

cgh wrote: »

Played GC yesterday,
I wasnt a big fan of it years ago, but seen as I hadnt played it in a long time. I was actually very surprised with it.

yes there is a big lack of trees, but overall the course was in great shape, greens were excellent.

I know 17 and 18 are weak holes, but 18 could be a par 4 not a par 5.

otherwise will be back playing there in the summer to play.

I was a member there for the last 2 years, would echo that, great back 9 imo but it's let down by the last 2 holes, especially the 18th. 17th would be fine if it wasn't a finishing hole.
The 18th is a long par 4. Or with a bit of investment it could be a better Par 5 as there's scope to build the tee box over to the right hand side (of the current tees)... So you would be hitting over the water and the hole would become a gentle right to left dogleg rather than dead straight.

TheDoc

Did you get feedback from the AGM?

Wouldn't be surprised if they were sold. It's not unusual for courses to trim trees for sale, as odd as that sounds. Our course did it a good few years back.

I believe Coilte also strike deals with golf clubs to grow trees and then after X years they take them for a fee. I forget the specifics, but just know its happened in a few clubs.

Wasn't uncommon during the boom for developers to get in touch with golf clubs to buy portions of trees so they could put them into their new developements/estates for some greenery.

I can't think of any other reason as to why you'd slash the definition and greenery of a course