Ripped Off buying camera on Adverts.ie

ziondave

Wasn't sure where to go with this but just wanted to post somewhere publicly about this. Recently bought a Canon 7D second hand on Adverts.ie where it was advertised as having taken 20k shots. After buying the camera and returning home I had to look up how to take a shutter count reading online and eventually did so using an app called EOS Inspector. To my dismay the shutter count was actually 42k. Sure I had taken some snaps with it but it couldn't have been more than 200 or 300 over 3 weeks. When I rang the seller he was incredibly rude and wouldn't budge saying that the only other 7D for less than his price of €600 was another one for €570 so he would give me the €30 back if I traveled out to his house in Dundalk from Dublin. The other 7D listed came with a stock lens and only had 15k shutter count. Should have held out and bought from an honest seller.

So basically, buyer beware when buying second hand cameras. Get an app running on your computer that you can inspect the shutter count too. I'd like to name and shame the seller here but might be seen as libel.

Kenny Logins

Fair enough, the shutter count was wrong, but is there much of a difference between 20k and 42k in the real world? The 7D shutter is rated for 150k I think, if everything else is OK, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Kenny Logins

BTW, the reason I say this is I had to replace the shutter on a 40D after just 13k, a failure (I believe) through lack of use.

ziondave

Cool, thanks for that bit of reassurance. It's my first camera and I know there's a 150k rating for the 7D shutter but I was a bit worried it would affect the camera. I mean, I've seen a large price difference between a 20k 7D and 40k 7D when on sale in camera shops so in my mind it should have been a bit cheaper. I'm still happy with the camera but just annoyed at the dishonesty of the seller.

magicbastarder

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Fair enough, the shutter count was wrong, but is there much of a difference between 20k and 42k in the real world?

it's a factor of two, and if not a genuine mistake on the seller's part, it's obviously a blatant lie; either way, not reassuring for the purchaser.

it's not too much of a stretch to liken it to clocking a car before sale.

ziondave

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's not too much of a stretch to liken it to clocking a car before sale.

That would have been my understanding anyway. To top this off I recently had a 40D stolen from my house that was a loan from a friend, along with a 1.8 50mm lens. Perhaps I should write a separate post about that.

Alltherage

As kenny says the difference isn't too bad (what 12-13%) of a pretty robust expected life time so it should be fine. I'm guessing you've tested it pretty fully by now and it's otherwise in good condition.

Putting a shutter count in an advert that's off by 100% is still pretty ****ty though.
If you were in a situation where you had not already parted with money and had found out it was that far out before exchanging money I'd be telling you to walk away. Mostly because you wont know what else you're not being told about it.

Kenny Logins

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's a factor of two, and if not a genuine mistake on the seller's part, it's obviously a blatant lie; either way, not reassuring for the purchaser.

it's not too much of a stretch to liken it to clocking a car before sale.

Seller aside, I'm talking about the camera itself. Cameras don't have service intervals that must be adhered to, (apart from cleaning) you just use them until they break. Can't say I've ever met anyone that keeps a note of their shutter count throughout the camera's life, it only comes into play when selling, to give a rough (very rough) idea of its use.

Put 20k and 42k DSLRs side-by-side and I'll buy the cleaner one.

ziondave

Thanks guys. As you say Kenny, I guess it's how the camera was cared for and at least the seller seemed to be a working photographer so probably took care of it well enough (not that I'll be hiring him any time soon).

It is fully working, and yeah, if I hadn't parted with the cash I'd have steered well clear from the seller. Not to mention that my girlfriend who actually made the transaction felt very intimidated by him during the transaction.

Paulw

Kenny Logins wrote: »

The 7D shutter is rated for 150k I think.

That is only a "mean time to failure". It could die after 1 frame or 500k.

I had a 20D, rated at 100k mean time to failure, and I sold it on to someone after it had reached a nice 348k of frames. Last I spoke to the guy, was a year after i sold it to him, and it was still working perfectly.

I also had a 40D, which needed a shutter replacement after 8k of frames.

It's a mechanical part, and can fail at any time.

A new shutter will cost around €150, and would be like putting a brand new engine in a car.

I certainly wouldn't care nor worry about the number of actuations.

AnimalRights

Alltherage wrote: »

As kenny says the difference isn't too bad (what 12-13%) of a pretty robust expected life time so it should be fine.

I disagree totally, I would be livid if that shutter count was that difference on how it was advertised.

I'd name and shame and also give him a negative star/vote.

Tiriel

Please check this link to dispute resolution on adverts.ie and follow appropriate steps. Naming and shaming is not encouraged here. Locking this thread temporarily to allow for Mod review.

https://help.adverts.ie/hc/en-us/articles/201255822-Shop-disputes

Edit - thread reopened to allow discussion, but please do not name and shame as this is a one sided conversation and the issue should be resolved with the seller and the process linked above.

almorris

Take your point on the shutter count. But just how accurate are those Canon shutter count apps? There's a few around that seem to only work when they feel like it. Possibly take it into an authorised Canon service centre and get an accurate count if it would help?

magicbastarder

people seem to be focussing (pun unintended) on the pure shutter count as a measure of how used the camera is; there's a big difference between simply tripping the shutter and actually using the camera; double the shutter count would generally imply double the (ab)use of the camera itself.

unless of course, 20,000 of the shutter actuations were performed with the camera sitting on a table just rattling them off for the sake of racking up the count.

twowheelsonly

Regarding checking shutter counts I just do it (very occasionally) in Picassa.
It comes up on the properties of any photo so just go to the last photo you took and check it there.
Just checked my main camera out of interest and it's at 177k + now.

It's not something that worries me to be honest even though I'd be a heavy enough user.
3777 Clicks in the last week but that's 3 football matches, an 18 bout boxing tournament, a road race, 2 days of a jersey launch, a stroll around Cobh and a couple of more 'casual' shots around the place.

I think 3 weeks was a bit long before checking in this instance. It becomes your word against his.
20 thousand extra against the ad stands to you though if you do follow through on it as it is a bit excessive.

Tiriel

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Regarding checking shutter counts I just do it (very occasionally) in Picassa.
It comes up on the properties of any photo so just go to the last photo you took and check it there.
Just checked my main camera out of interest and it's at 177k + now.

Where exactly can you check it in Picasa? I have the 5D and my shutter is stuttering at the moment, don't think there is anyway of checking the count on this model unless you send it away. Curious to see what Picasa says though! Checked under Picture>Properties but don't see anything there.

pete4130

I got my shutter replaced a few years ago for free by Nikon in London when I got it repaired. It was an early Nikon D3 and seemingly had a potential issue with the shutter. It got replaced at about 55K and didn't reset, so if I ever did sell it on, it's got 55K less than it says it does. I've no documentation to prove the shutter was replaced anymore. 20K wouldn't really bother me.

The 40D were notorious for their shutters failing prematurely.

Kenny Logins

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Regarding checking shutter counts I just do it (very occasionally) in Picassa.
It comes up on the properties of any photo so just go to the last photo you took and check it there.
Just checked my main camera out of interest and it's at 177k + now.

Nikon maybe, but I don't think Canon stores accurate shutter count info in EXIF data, it's a shot counter that can be reset in the menus.

Maybe that's what happened here in the OP's case...

Effects

ziondave wrote: »

That would have been my understanding anyway. To top this off I recently had a 40D stolen from my house that was a loan from a friend, along with a 1.8 50mm lens. Perhaps I should write a separate post about that.

It's ok. No need. Sorry to hear about you couple of bouts of bad luck. I would worry too much about the shutter count.

twowheelsonly

Where exactly can you check it in Picasa? I have the 5D and my shutter is stuttering at the moment, don't think there is anyway of checking the count on this model unless you send it away. Curious to see what Picasa says though! Checked under Picture>Properties but don't see anything there.

Not too sure about Canon but with any Nikon that I have/have had it's about third from the bottom in the list of properties.

Note: Has to be an unedited original 'out of camera' photo.

pullandbang

Cork_girl wrote: »

I have the 5D and my shutter is stuttering at the moment, don't think there is anyway of checking the count on this model unless you send it away.

You're right, you can't check the 5D without sending it away to Canon. You can funnily enough check the 5DmkII and I think the mkIII -must have a peep at mine.

pixbyjohn

Cork_girl wrote: »

Where exactly can you check it in Picasa? I have the 5D and my shutter is stuttering at the moment, don't think there is anyway of checking the count on this model unless you send it away. Curious to see what Picasa says though! Checked under Picture>Properties but don't see anything there.

pullandbang wrote: »

You're right, you can't check the 5D without sending it away to Canon. You can funnily enough check the 5DmkII and I think the mkIII -must have a peep at mine.

Does this show the shutter count of the Canon 5D????? Upload an unedited photo to check
http://www.camerashuttercount.com/

ziondave

Cork_girl wrote: »

Where exactly can you check it in Picasa? I have the 5D and my shutter is stuttering at the moment, don't think there is anyway of checking the count on this model unless you send it away. Curious to see what Picasa says though! Checked under Picture>Properties but don't see anything there.

If you have a mac then I used the app EOS Inspector. It's only two quid in the app store. Doesn't do a whole lot other than tell your shutter count and serial number but it seems to work well.

dirtyghettokid

ziondave wrote: »

If you have a mac then I used the app EOS Inspector. It's only two quid in the app store. Doesn't do a whole lot other than tell your shutter count and serial number but it seems to work well.

i have that app as well & used it on a couple of cameras. i thought it did the job nicely for two quid!

CabanSail

Have no idea of the actuation count on any of my bodies. Have yet to have one of my own shutters fail.

Did have two failures on the one day when using someone else's gear. That was in Berlin shooting the marathon. In the first session I had tow bodies. The first one developed a fault where the reflex mirror was returning to different positions after each shot. The second body had a dodgy shutter which was not firing reliably. I went back to the body with the reflex mirror error and sighted the shots by looking over the lens and took over 5k images like that. Got two different bodies for the second session and took about 16k with the good one.

georgefalls

Pentax will tell you the shutter count for free. Just upload a JPEG here, from any brand, and it tells you all sorts of info, including the shutter count.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/pages/check-shutter-count-exif.html

Rew

I remember watching a video about pro timelaspe shooters and one guy had a good laugh about the obsession with shutter count. He remarked about how they blow through the ratings and continue using them for years.