Fencing on rented land

nightwing84

I have some land rented out which is now in need of some fencing. Same lad has had for past 5 years. There is a fair bit money to be spent. Just wondering who is usually responsible for doing this. Owner or tenant?

Thanks

welton john

nightwing84 wrote: »

I have some land rented out which is now in need of some fencing. Same lad has had for past 5 years. There is a fair bit money to be spent. Just wondering who is usually responsible for doing this. Owner or tenant?

Thanks

If its not on long term lease then i would assume you are.
Land i rent yearly the pigtails and battery fence go in at start of year and leave at the end

Greengrass1

We leased a farm last yr and we re fenced nearly all of it. Wire was there for most of it luckily.
The owner bought barbed wire for bounds and then gave us back the money for stakes when it was all fenced.
Wasn't expecting it tbh.
Farm also needs lime and she is going to pay for this too.

Its up to yourself what you want to do

ravima

If animals stray, under the law, the animal owner is responsible. There can be arguments made re land owner/landlord/rental agreements, but to be sure to be sure, the aminal owner should have Public Liability cover.

Miname

I have a bit rented that needed fecing so both the landlord and myself split the cost. its beneficial to both parties as i see it so costs should be shared as well.

Jimlh86

We have 10 acres rented it's heavy land so we really only get the summer months out of it, but I've it fenced well enough no problems so far, 6' stakes well spread out white wire two strands kept tight off them when cattle go in plastic posts go in too. Not perfect but reasonably cheap and does the job, might be an option

Jimlh86

Jimlh86 wrote: »

We have 10 acres rented it's heavy land so we really only get the summer months out of it, but I've it fenced well enough no problems so far, 6' stakes well spread out white wire two strands kept tight off them when cattle go in plastic posts go in too. Not perfect but reasonably cheap and does the job, might be an option

My bad thought you were the tenant! In that case landlord pays everytime ; )

my3cents

OP - why not just rent it to someone that is prepared to fence it obviously the current guy has done sfa over the last 5 years.

Western Pomise

Usually the person renting out the land makes an arrangement with the person renting it either that the person renting does any fencing needed and landowner makes a decent contribution towards it or before renting out land the landowner makes sure its stock proof at their own expense.One thing that needs to be remembered is that if someone renting land puts in permanent fencing eg posts and wire.....they cannot remove it when their rent/lease is up....unless landowner oks it.

Markcheese

If it's just on conacre (yearly rent) then you can't expect the tenant to fence ,lime or reseed the lad renting could spend a fortune now and be turfed out /outbid at the end of the year - long term leasing is different - (and by arrangement ) .

landm

I have land rented out which was fenced but tenant never repairs the fences that his cattle knock down. What will I do?

Kovu

landm wrote: »

I have land rented out which was fenced but tenant never repairs the fences that his cattle knock down. What will I do?

I'd say the answers will depends on how long you have the place rented for- be it long term (5+ yrs) or on a year to year basis.
Can you give us some more info?
There's also the option of coming to an arrangement of you carrying out repair work on the boundary in return for a lower rent. That would probably have to be signed upon in case of issues down the line e.g. Landowner saying he never consented to lower rent for repair work.

landm

He has land rented for about 10 years on a yearly basis. He promises to fix fence but never does. I have got hedges cut and digger work done which is costing a lot of money. He always says it wasnt his cattle but the tenant before him knocked them down which is untrue. He is just so lazy.

my3cents

landm wrote: »

He has land rented for about 10 years on a yearly basis. He promises to fix fence but never does. I have got hedges cut and digger work done which is costing a lot of money. He always says it wasnt his cattle but the tenant before him knocked them down which is untrue. He is just so lazy.

Don't waste your money doing anything for him then. Leave the digger work and hedge cutting until it benefits you most at the END of his tenancy.

landm

Do you think I would safer to look for new tenant? I think so myself. There is no point me paying money to get fencing done and then he break it all down again and not repair it.
Thanks

Kovu

Oh arse, I read it wrong first. I thought it was you renting the land, instead of you renting the land to another person!
If he can't be bothered to maintain fencing, is he bothering to put the correct fert etc on or is he just destroying the land!

Markcheese

landm wrote: »

Do you think I would safer to look for new tenant? I think so myself. There is no point me paying money to get fencing done and then he break it all down again and not repair it.
Thanks

He's had it 10 years - but on a yearly rent then I'd assume it's your fence and yours to fix. Of course it's up to him to keep his stock in , and after 10 years odd the posts are probably fairly shook ....
Chances are he's put on minimal fertilizer and no lime but why should he ? It's your land !
If you went to rent it to someone else next year you'd probaly be renting somewhere with poor pasture,poor fencing, in need of a lot of fertilizer and a lot of lime over the next few years- l
Long term leasing with agreements as to who does the work and who pays- what land condition is like at start and what it's expected to be at the end of the lease -

9935452

landm wrote: »

Do you think I would safer to look for new tenant? I think so myself. There is no point me paying money to get fencing done and then he break it all down again and not repair it.
Thanks

To be fair to the farmer its always hard to justify putting too much money into someone else land especially when he only has it on a yearly basis,
Get a new tenant and if he is any good let it for 5 years

landm

Kovu wrote: »

Oh arse, I read it wrong first. I thought it was you renting the land, instead of you renting the land to another person!
If he can't be bothered to maintain fencing, is he bothering to put the correct fert etc on or is he just destroying the land!

He just seems to be destroying it. He is making a fool of me up to my face. What do I do for next year. I am thinking of changing locks on gates and telling him that I am not renting it. It is nearly costing me more than I am making from it.

Thanks again.

Kovu

landm wrote: »

He just seems to be destroying it. He is making a fool of me up to my face. What do I do for next year. I am thinking of changing locks on gates and telling him that I am not renting it. It is nearly costing me more than I am making from it.

Thanks again.

It's your land, if you're not happy with the tenant put him out of it, just give him enough advance notice. I don't know if there's any specific time frame like there is for housing but perhaps check that or maybe somebody here can tell you. There should be no need for changing locks or anything if he's any way sound.
Find a better tenant who will show the land a bit of respect and get a bit of worry off your mind.

landm

Kovu wrote: »

It's your land, if you're not happy with the tenant put him out of it, just give him enough advance notice. I don't know if there's any specific time frame like there is for housing but perhaps check that or maybe somebody here can tell you. There should be no need for changing locks or anything if he's any way sound.
Find a better tenant who will show the land a bit of respect and get a bit of worry off your mind.

No there is no notice but he assumes that he has it every year and just puts the cattle on it during March or April depending on the weather. Cattle are now suppose to be off on 1st November but they are always there a lot longer. But I am going to check this year. I think I am waking up and smelling the coffee at last.

Kovu

Just don't let yourself be walked over, some tenants are given an inch and they take a mile. If they're on it now, ring him or leave a note on the gate saying you expect them off by Nov 1st as you want to do X with it (I dunno, say rolling or something) and need it clear. With the current weather, growth is non-existent anyway and they'll only be poaching the ground.

ganmo

landm wrote: »

No there is no notice but he assumes that he has it every year and just puts the cattle on it during March or April depending on the weather. Cattle are now suppose to be off on 1st November but they are always there a lot longer. But I am going to check this year. I think I am waking up and smelling the coffee at last.

I'd suggest letting him know you don't intend to set the ground so that he has chance to make other plans.

After he has the cattle off it

Jimlh86

I can see your predicament but to play devils advocate for a moment, I'm not sure I'd put much into fencing if I wasn't sure I had the land the following year. Still a couple of co-op fence posts would hardly kill him. Just my tuppence worth but the next lad that takes it get a contract drawn up I.e general upkeep, fertiliser etc.

landm

Kovu wrote: »

Just don't let yourself be walked over, some tenants are given an inch and they take a mile. If they're on it now, ring him or leave a note on the gate saying you expect them off by Nov 1st as you want to do X with it (I dunno, say rolling or something) and need it clear. With the current weather, growth is non-existent anyway and they'll only be poaching the ground.

I know you are right. I said to him last week about how bad the fencing is and what do you think he rang yesterday to say he had fixed a small piece of it and it would not take much to fix rest. That is not true the fencing is just wrecked. He is afraid now that I won't let him back next year. Also who should pay for the water. I am paying for it and there is an old house there but I am only there very little and use hardly any water. I think he should pay for it.

The only thing has me feeling very down and at my wit's end.

ganmo

landm wrote: »

I know you are right. I said to him last week about how bad the fencing is and what do you think he rang yesterday to say he had fixed a small piece of it and it would not take much to fix rest. That is not true the fencing is just wrecked. He is afraid now that I won't let him back next year. Also who should pay for the water. I am paying for it and there is an old house there but I am only there very little and use hardly any water. I think he should pay for it.

The only thing has me feeling very down and at my wit's end.

At the moment Irish water aren't billing for usage just the connection so I don't see the justification for billing him for the connection to your house

Can I ask why don't you sell the ground if it is putting pressure on you.

croot

landm wrote: »

I know you are right. I said to him last week about how bad the fencing is and what do you think he rang yesterday to say he had fixed a small piece of it and it would not take much to fix rest. That is not true the fencing is just wrecked. He is afraid now that I won't let him back next year. Also who should pay for the water. I am paying for it and there is an old house there but I am only there very little and use hardly any water. I think he should pay for it.

The only thing has me feeling very down and at my wit's end.

Why don't you ask a local auctioneer about it. A farm near me is rented through an auctioneer and a dodgy tenant had it a few years ago and was turfed out by the auctioneer. As far as I know you pay a % to the them and they look after all the rest. You can set your own T's & C's and the tenant has to stick to it.

landm

ganmo wrote: »

At the moment Irish water aren't billing for usage just the connection so I don't see the justification for billing him for the connection to your house

Can I ask why don't you sell the ground if it is putting pressure on you.

I have to pay for water as I live in Northern Ireland. There were a few burst but now all fixed so I let him have the water. I have thought a lot about selling it. I am going to think it all well through over the winter. I have told him that I am thinking of selling it and he says "oh I couldn't afford to buy it" and he really needs it for the Single Farm Payment.

Sure I am going to stop worrying about it for now.

Thanks again for advice.

Kovu

landm wrote: »

I have to pay for water as I live in Northern Ireland. There were a few burst but now all fixed so I let him have the water. I have thought a lot about selling it. I am going to think it all well through over the winter. I have told him that I am thinking of selling it and he says "oh I couldn't afford to buy it" and he really needs it for the Single Farm Payment.

Sure I am going to stop worrying about it for now.

Thanks again for advice.

Ah don't let him even attempt the guilt game! Tell him that unless he bucks up and repairs the damage caused by his animals- Fences, poaching, whatever, that you are going to see somebody about selling it.

Even if you aren't, it might shift his arse into gear a bit.

landm

Kovu wrote: »

Ah don't let him even attempt the guilt game! Tell him that unless he bucks up and repairs the damage caused by his animals- Fences, poaching, whatever, that you are going to see somebody about selling it.

Even if you aren't, it might shift his arse into gear a bit.

I know you are right. I am going to be firm and not let him away with this. He only fixed a wee bit of fence to get me settled but I am not that easily fooled.

I wonder how much fencing is per yard to get done - have you any idea?

Also do you know anywhere in Ireland that stocks parts for Massey Ferguson tractors

Kovu

landm wrote: »

I know you are right. I am going to be firm and not let him away with this. He only fixed a wee bit of fence to get me settled but I am not that easily fooled.

I wonder how much fencing is per yard to get done - have you any idea?

Also do you know anywhere in Ireland that stocks parts for Massey Ferguson tractors

I'm afraid I'm not much use to those two questions! We do all the fencing here ourselves and don't have a MF. I'm sure others will know!

MayoAreMagic

Listen, first thing you need to do is realise that this lad is playing the game here. He is trying to brazen it out. You just have to be as cute as he is being.

All you have to do is say that you arent happy with cattle being able to break out of your land, because if they ever got out onto a road and caused an accident then someone could be seriously hurt. And because of that you dont think you can rent it any longer out until it is stock-proof.

After that it is up to you which way you want to go. Do you want him out completely? If so then refuse any potential offers he makes to help out and say you will take care of it yourself.
If he makes no offer to help out then he has no comebacks.
Either way, once he is out speak to another farmer about renting it and forget about him. Come to an arrangement from the start about fences etc and that will be that. no more worries.

landm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Listen, first thing you need to do is realise that this lad is playing the game here. He is trying to brazen it out. You just have to be as cute as he is being.

All you have to do is say that you arent happy with cattle being able to break out of your land, because if they ever got out onto a road and caused an accident then someone could be seriously hurt. And because of that you dont think you can rent it any longer out until it is stock-proof.

After that it is up to you which way you want to go. Do you want him out completely? If so then refuse any potential offers he makes to help out and say you will take care of it yourself.
If he makes no offer to help out then he has no comebacks.
Either way, once he is out speak to another farmer about renting it and forget about him. Come to an arrangement from the start about fences etc and that will be that. no more worries.

I know he has only done a wee bit of fencing because I was real angry last Friday and said this place is an awful state with fences all broken down. Even when he phoned me yesterday and said he had fixed this bit I still said aye but the fences on other place very bad. He didn't phone today to hear if I was going out to farm but I will take run up tomorrow and see what he has done. He knows now that I have caught him out and is afraid of loosing it. There is plenty of farmers who would take it. I am going to distance myself and act in a more positive way.

rangler1

landm wrote: »

I know he has only done a wee bit of fencing because I was real angry last Friday and said this place is an awful state with fences all broken down. Even when he phoned me yesterday and said he had fixed this bit I still said aye but the fences on other place very bad. He didn't phone today to hear if I was going out to farm but I will take run up tomorrow and see what he has done. He knows now that I have caught him out and is afraid of loosing it. There is plenty of farmers who would take it. I am going to distance myself and act in a more positive way.

Maintaining fences is expensive to do right and I'd be surprised if the tenant is expected to pay for it, If fences get broken down, they are usually rotten and need to be replaced. You wouldn't expect a tenant in a house to replace a rotten bedroom floor...
Most tenants would just go round the farm with a cheap electric fence as was said here earlier and let the fence fall if the landlord wasn't prepared to maintain it.

A lot of rented out farms go derelict after a few years for the want of a proper tenant

Muckit

That's a very good point rangler.

landm

rangler1 wrote: »

Maintaining fences is expensive to do right and I'd be surprised if the tenant is expected to pay for it, If fences get broken down, they are usually rotten and need to be replaced. You wouldn't expect a tenant in a house to replace a rotten bedroom floor...
Most tenants would just go round the farm with a cheap electric fence as was said here earlier and let the fence fall if the landlord wasn't prepared to maintain it.

A lot of rented out farms go derelict after a few years for the want of a proper tenant

Yeah I know but the fences were good when the land was rented out and now there are no more. I am going to get it properly fenced and get tenant who will mend holes that his cattle create or else get it reseeded and leased for hay and then no problem with cattle breaking down the fences.

rangler1

Muckit wrote: »

That's a very good point rangler.

And so true...unfortunately.
Redoing a 20 yr old sheep wire fence in a boundary ditch at the moment, the wire is still there, it's 500 yds long , so had to get a hedgecutter in and the 100 stakes so there's €500 gone and a lot of work, but it'll be done for another 20 yrs but you couldn't expect a tenant to do that

rangler1

landm wrote: »

Yeah I know but the fences were good when the land was rented out and now there are no more. I am going to get it properly fenced and get tenant who will mend holes that his cattle create or else get it reseeded and leased for hay and then no problem with cattle breaking down the fences.

Tillage farmers probably are the best tenants....if they don't look after your land the crops won't yield and no pressure on the boundary ditches either so ''win win''

landm

rangler1 wrote: »

And so true...unfortunately.
Redoing a 20 yr old sheep wire fence in a boundary ditch at the moment, the wire is still there, it's 500 yds long , so had to get a hedgecutter in and the 100 stakes so there's €500 gone and a lot of work, but it'll be done for another 20 yrs but you couldn't expect a tenant to do that

I wouldn't expect a tenant to do it either. I have already got hedges cut and there is still some of the wire there. So I think I will get a fencing man to look at it and get a price. I think this is best.

landm

rangler1 wrote: »

Tillage farmers probably are the best tenants....if they don't look after your land the crops won't yield and no pressure on the boundary ditches either so ''win win''

Yeah I know that so I have to get this sorted.