Mandatory training, paid or not?

Monife

Hi all.

Husband (and his colleagues) have been told to do some training online and in his own time or face disciplinary action for not adhering to company policy.

Just wondering is this normal? Should he be paid for it and can they force him to do it?

He already works full time and is in college a full day (9 to 7) a week too and this demand is like the straw that broke the camel's back.

Thanks.

davo10

Monife wrote: »

Hi all.

Husband (and his colleagues) have been told to do some training online and in his own time or face disciplinary action for not adhering to company policy.

Just wondering is this normal? Should he be paid for it and can they force him to do it?

He already works full time and is in college a full day (9 to 7) a week too and this demand is like the straw that broke the camel's back.

Thanks.

Or he could look at it another way, he has to do a little research on how he is supposed to be doing the job he is being paid to do, just so he doesn't get sacked.

gandalf

It depends on how much time this mandatory training takes?

If it's a couple of hours then I don't see the issue with it. If it's more onerous than this then I would empathise with him.

Triangla

Mandatory training for work is work, should be within the hours of a working day.

I've had mandatory training sessions for years and have never heard of anyone ever being asked to do it in their own time. If I was asked I would politely say no.

If a company requires you to attend training they need to provide the time and space to do so.

davo10

Triangla wrote: »

Mandatory training for work is work, should be within the hours of a working day.

I've had mandatory training sessions for years and have never heard of anyone ever being asked to do it in their own time. If I was asked I would politely say no.

If a company requires you to attend training they need to provide the time and space to do so.

And if he "politely says no" and continues to not adhere to company policy?

Would the company's request not be similar to being asked to familiarise yourself with the safety/work manual? It is after all just a matter of watching something on line which is employer obviously expected him to know in the first place. This doesn't seem to be a case of the company requiring him to take a course to learn something new about the industry, it seems to be a case of "remind yourself of company policies or you are heading for a problem"

B.A._Baracus

Hi Monife,
I got to agree with davo10 on this one. Tell your husband just to do the online training and be done with it.

The reality is that there are a couple of thousand people on the social welfare with the same skillset to do the same job as your husband, who would work for a lower wage than your husband and gladly do this online training course to ensure the job.

Don't be concerned with if it's paid or not.

gl0Rob

Monife wrote: »

Hi all.

Husband (and his colleagues) have been told to do some training online and in his own time or face disciplinary action for not adhering to company policy.

Just wondering is this normal? Should he be paid for it and can they force him to do it?

He already works full time and is in college a full day (9 to 7) a week too and this demand is like the straw that broke the camel's back.

Thanks.

No different to being asked to do overtime without pay. Happens to plenty of people. Usually your contract will state that you are expected to do some overtime when required and your salary takes this into account .

Tom Dunne

Monife wrote: »

Hi all.

Husband (and his colleagues) have been told to do some training online and in his own time or face disciplinary action for not adhering to company policy.

Just wondering is this normal? Should he be paid for it and can they force him to do it?

He already works full time and is in college a full day (9 to 7) a week too and this demand is like the straw that broke the camel's back.

Thanks.

I would be more concerned about working for a company that enforces policy by issuing threats.

Are we getting the full story here? It seems very unreasonable, especially in light of the fact that your husband already bettering himself.

irelandrover

I'd expect to be paid if i had to go to the office for a training at a specified time.

If i was told that I needed to complete a one hour online course anytime in the next month then I wouldn't really expect to be paid. It does depend on the length of the training however.

gozunda

Tom Dunne wrote: »

would be more concerned about working for a company that enforces policy by issuing threats.

Are we getting the full story here? It seems very unreasonable, especially in light of the fact that your husband already bettering himself.

I agree with this. If they are waving around the disciplinary willy wand - check the company policy for relevant information as to what the remit on such requests are. To be honest the threat sounds highly dubious.

I find the following comments insulting to normal employer / employee relationships and to be unnecessarily aggressive. The OP is seeking advice and not to be maligned by imaginary scenarios.

davo10 wrote: »

Or he could look at it another way, he has to do a little research on how he is supposed to be doing the job he is being paid to do, just so he doesn't get sacked.

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Hi Monife,
I got to agree with davo10 on this one. Tell your husband just to do the online training and be done with it.

The reality is that there are a couple of thousand people on the social welfare with the same skillset to do the same job as your husband, who would work for a lower wage than your husband and gladly do this online training course to ensure the job.
Don't be concerned with if it's paid or not.

davo10

gozunda wrote: »

I agree with this. If they are waving around the disciplinary willy wand - check the company policy for relevant information as to what the remit on such requests are. To be honest the threat sounds highly dubious.

I find the following comments insulting to normal employer / employee relationships and to be unnecessarily aggressive. The OP is seeking advice and not to be maligned by imaginary scenarios.

I know it's early in the morning, but did you miss the part in the opening post where they said he would be facing disciplinary action if he does not adhere to the policies laid down by the company?. In the interest of job preservation, do you not think he would be better off spending a little bit of time in front of his computer?

They are not "imaginary scenarios" the OP has stated that her husband has actually been told he faces disciplinary action if he doesn't follow company policy and has been advised to read them online. You advised him to "check the company policy", guess what? That seems to be exactly what they are asking him to do online so that he adheres to it in the future. Have some coffee.

I think it was quite good of the company to offer this rather than issuing disciplinary proceedings. That's not a threat, it's a shot across the bows.

_Kaiser_

Sounds to me like the company are using the "Company policy"/disciplinary threat as a blunt instrument to ensure compliance - there probably isn't even such a policy at all.

What's the training about and how much time is involved? If the OP's husband and his colleagues have been advised they "have" to do this it sounds like someone (maybe an auditor) did a review of his department and decided something was lacking, but expecting them to do this in their own time under threat of sanctions is a bit much and poor employee relations for what is probably poor management/procedures in the first place.

gozunda

davo10 wrote: »

I know it's early in the morning, but did you miss the part in the opening post where they said he would be facing disciplinary action if he does not adhere to the policies laid down by the company?. In the interest of job preservation, do you not think he would be better off spending a little bit of time in front of his computer?

They are not "imaginary scenarios" the OP has stated that her husband has actually been told he faces disciplinary action if he doesn't follow company policy and has been advised to read them online. You advised him to "check the company policy", guess what? That seems to be exactly what they are asking him to do online so that he adheres to it in the future. Have some coffee.

I think it was quite good of the company to offer this rather than issuing disciplinary proceedings. That's not a threat, it's a shot across the bows.

In what Universe is it constructive to transform an unqualified 'threat' from discipline to outright sacking as a logical outcome? As an employer I take offence that it is acceptable anywhere to use threatening and aggressive language where an employee seeks clarification

Where are you getting your the idea that the OPs husband doesn't already spend considerable time 'in front of his computer'?

Your conclusion is 'imaginary' in that it is no way clear if there is any possible valid action to discipline outside the threat as outlined previously.

The company is 'offering'? I don't think so. From the OPs post the issue appears to a threat to do something outside his normal employment.

You can use whatever terminology you like (shot across the bows -snort!) it doesn't change the Employers aggressive type behaviour

Edit: Btw exactly where are the company asking the employee to read the company policies online ???

You said

...actually been told he faces disciplinary action if he doesn't follow company policy and has been advised to read them online. You advised him to "check the company policy", guess what? That seems to be exactly what they are asking him to do online so that he adheres to it in the future.

The OP clearly stated that

Husband (and his colleagues) have been told to do some training online and in his own time

Repeat - "some training"

I will take it you have misread the OPs entire post then. No bother.

You're right it obviously was early in the morning ...

Mrs OBumble

To make any meaningful comment, we really need to know how much training is involved, and if this for a qualification which he should have held before getting the job. (The fact that it's online is pretty much irrelevant - except that being on-lne make is a lot more accessible so less troublesome to do.)

Also, it's possible that standards in the industry raised recently, meaning that people who would previously have been considered adequate for the job are no longer good enough.

This has happened in early-childhood education - sometimes called "childcare" - and people there clearly know that they have to get qualified or get out. Banking is another industry where people have faced this - existing employees have had to do QFA training. In both cases, the training has been in people's own time - and rightly because it is really entry-level training for the whole industry, rather than company specific training for the particular job.

Monife

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I would be more concerned about working for a company that enforces policy by issuing threats.

Are we getting the full story here? It seems very unreasonable, especially in light of the fact that your husband already bettering himself.

It's the full story. It's not a great place to work, all managers are very hostile especially the HR manager. He regularly does unpaid hours however he is paid hourly, not on a salary. He also doesn't always get full time hours and has to use holidays to make ends meet.

He is not in an entry level job, he's a supervisor.

The training I am assuming is probably about 8 hours which I know in the grand scheme of things isn't a lot, I was just really annoyed when I heard he was being made to do it in his own time when he is already taken advantage of.

He'll be leaving the job when he has graduated and should be able to get a managerial position.

gandalf

Monife wrote: »

He'll be leaving the job when he has graduated and should be able to get a managerial position.

TBH I think he and you need to concentrate on this. Tell him to keep his head down and focus on getting a position elsewhere. There are much better employers out there.