selling street photography/video

FordDriver

If you film something on the street like a street festival can you make and sell a dvd of it? Isn't there something about it being in public but even so you cannot use it commercially with out the person signing rights? Does that apply if people are in a group and people re recognisable but no one person is singled out. Just a street shoot

Pixie Chief

I have seen DVDs of festivals for sale. There is something about photography in a public place but the bigger issue I think, would be whether you are involved with the festival and therefore entitled to profit from the enterprise? I was involved with a public festival and had to get permission from the 'street' performers to use imagery I obtained from the performance to promote the festival...not sure why. Maybe it was a matter of respect rather than a legal requirement in that case. Photographers would frequently profit from street performance, for example, being paid for photographs of a St Patrick's Day parade in a local paper. I suspect that filming an event, public or otherwise, and making DVDs for sale might be treated differently...particularly if you are not involved with the organisation of the festival.

FordDriver

Pixie Chief wrote: »

I have seen DVDs of festivals for sale. There is something about photography in a public place but the bigger issue I think, would be whether you are involved with the festival and therefore entitled to profit from the enterprise? I was involved with a public festival and had to get permission from the 'street' performers to use imagery I obtained from the performance to promote the festival...not sure why. Maybe it was a matter of respect rather than a legal requirement in that case. Photographers would frequently profit from street performance, for example, being paid for photographs of a St Patrick's Day parade in a local paper. I suspect that filming an event, public or otherwise, and making DVDs for sale might be treated differently...particularly if you are not involved with the organisation of the festival.

i do not see why you should ask the organisers if the festival is in public.

joeguevara

There may be an issue with music rights.

FordDriver

joeguevara wrote: »

There may be an issue with music rights.

from the peformers but not from the organisers

joeguevara

FordDriver wrote: »

from the peformers but not from the organisers

Performers may also be the organisers.

Miaireland

I am not sure but would there be a issue with recording a festival if there are children attending/taking part. The only reason I ask this was a neighbour of mine kids were going to an event and there were going to be cameras at it. Their parents had to sign a disclaimer saying it was ok that their kids be recorder even though they were only attending the event rather than taking part.

FordDriver

Miaireland wrote: »

I am not sure but would there be a issue with recording a festival if there are children attending/taking part. The only reason I ask this was a neighbour of mine kids were going to an event and there were going to be cameras at it. Their parents had to sign a disclaimer saying it was ok that their kids be recorder even though they were only attending the event rather than taking part.

but that was not on the street was it? going to an event where there will be cameras sounds like a concert?

FordDriver

joeguevara wrote: »

Performers may also be the organisers.

not in this case

MarkAnthony

IP minefield - interesting to discuss, but yes significant issues could present themselves.

FordDriver

MarkAnthony wrote: »

IP minefield - interesting to discuss, but yes significant issues could present themselves.

IP?

yes significant issues could present themselves

in a street film? How do rte manage?

MarkAnthony

FordDriver wrote: »

IP?

Intellectual Property.

FordDriver wrote: »

in a street film? How do rte manage?

RTE sell DVDs?

Less flippantly, there are two different uses there but I'm afraid I wouldn't be well enough versed to comment intelligently, I just know there would likely be IP issues.

At a guess RTE would be incidental recording or what ever it's called. For example they are making a news programme and the recording of the festival is incidental to that. There's also a difference between a snippet of something and a full recording.

FordDriver

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Intellectual Property.



RTE sell DVDs?

Less flippantly, there are two different uses there but I'm afraid I wouldn't be well enough versed to comment intelligently, I just know there would likely be IP issues.

At a guess RTE would be incidental recording or what ever it's called. For example they are making a news programme and the recording of the festival is incidental to that. There's also a difference between a snippet of something and a full recording.

IP Ok i understand. It would not be a full recording of anyone or any performers. snippets around the streets showing the atmosphere. if you were there you might be shown for a couple seconds as the camera pass you by. Does IP come into it then. ?

Paulw

FordDriver wrote: »

in a street film? How do rte manage?

Editorial work (such as RTE) would be very different from commercial work of shooting/selling.

You should be alright, in general, but Data Protection would come in to consideration, I'm sure.

Try asking the Data Protection Commissioner on their view and see what they say.

MarkAnthony

FordDriver wrote: »

IP Ok i understand. It would not be a full recording of anyone or any performers. snippets around the streets showing the atmosphere. if you were there you might be shown for a couple seconds as the camera pass you by. Does IP come into it then. ?

IP comes into everything (almost). The posts I write on boards are (arguably) my copyright, but I'm sure some would argue they contain no element of skill, I'm sure there's something in the boards.ie user agreement where I sign that over.

Pixie Chief

FordDriver wrote: »

i do not see why you should ask the organisers if the festival is in public.

Possibly because they may have an issue with others making money off the back of months of work for them - often done solely for the benefit of the community. Yes, in general, you can film in public without issue but where you use public images to generate revenue then the people whose images you are using may well be within their rights to either protest or seek to share some of those funds. If I were running a public event, I would consider that I had the right to film/photograph and use that footage showcasing what I had achieved to promote or raise funds. I would have a problem with months of serious work to pull it all together and have someone who merely wandered about the event with a camera feeling entitled to make money off DVD's showing footage of my event. This has been challenged in the past with differing results but it is clear that there is a difference between the right to film in public and the right to produce a directly derivative artwork for profit. If you film an artist performing and then sell that DVD, you are infringing on their copyright and using their performance to make money. If you film that same artist having an extramarital affair then sell it to the newspapers, it is perhaps equally morally repugnant but what you are now selling is a unique film showcasing your investigative talent rather than the talent (oo-er!) of the artist in question.

FordDriver

Pixie Chief wrote: »

Possibly because they may have an issue with others making money off the back of months of work for them - often done solely for the benefit of the community. Yes, in general, you can film in public without issue but where you use public images to generate revenue then the people whose images you are using may well be within their rights to either protest or seek to share some of those funds. If I were running a public event, I would consider that I had the right to film/photograph and use that footage showcasing what I had achieved to promote or raise funds. I would have a problem with months of serious work to pull it all together and have someone who merely wandered about the event with a camera feeling entitled to make money off DVD's showing footage of my event. This has been challenged in the past with differing results but it is clear that there is a difference between the right to film in public and the right to produce a directly derivative artwork for profit. If you film an artist performing and then sell that DVD, you are infringing on their copyright and using their performance to make money. If you film that same artist having an extramarital affair then sell it to the newspapers, it is perhaps equally morally repugnant but what you are now selling is a unique film showcasing your investigative talent rather than the talent (oo-er!) of the artist in question.

then they should not have it on the public street

Pixie Chief

FordDriver wrote: »

then they should not have it on the public street

Really? Just because something that belongs to someone else is in public does not entitle you to steal it - other peoples handbags and cars for example. The fact that an original performance is in public allows you to enjoy it without payment and sometimes, make recordings for your own personal enjoyment. You have no rights to it other than that. While the performance is free, very often the organisers have to pay the performers and THEY acquire the rights to that performance for promotional or profit purposes...because they paid for it. If you want to acquire rights to the various performances to legally profit from them, then you will need to speak with the organisers and probably each performer involved (even if only the sound is recorded).