Alfa 156/159 Wagon

rs mivec

Hi Folks

Im looking for advice from anybody who owns or has owed either of the above with any engine.

I currently have a 2 litre petrol estate car, 08 Subaru impreza, that has been very reliable and okay mpg wise (30-32)

Only issues I have with it is that its on the small side for an estate. Especially with an iso fix base in the back!

I am thinking about trying to find an alfa estate, the only real reason for this is I love the look of them. I know there is probably much better cars in this category, A4 Passat Octavia focus etc but id love to go for the alfa

So does anybody have one? should I try get the 159 rather than the 156? what engine is best, I do about 15k miles a year.

Or should I just stick with the reliable but not as good looking Subaru...

GavMan

Very few 159 wagons here in Ireland. Muchless well specced ones. I would look to the UK if you were seriously considering it. Check out alfaowner.com for engine advice.

Ferris

We have a 156 saloon and I would imagine that they are similar size to the Subaru if not a bit smaller. Also the newest of these is '05 now so getting on a bit. People say they're unreliable but it (1.6 twin spark) has given practically no trouble in the 3yrs we've owned it.

I'd probably go for the 159 SW but they're quite rare. At your mileage the diesels are the better choice as the petrols are all fairly weedy for what is a heavy car (other than the 2.2jts and the 1750TBi but they're even rarer than estates). I think the diesels need a timing belt every 35k and you need to watch out for dpf issues on them. Other than that they're supposed to be reliable.

zAbbo

My 2.4l 156 has over 170k miles and still drives smooth. It has been serviced well and is terrific to drive.

Irish Alfas are thin on the ground though, especially SW 156 & 159s.

Boskowski

I love the look of them too but apparently they're absolutely shocking on the emissions. With any kind of decent engine in them youre actually better off with a pre 08 model as far as tax is concerned. I know not everyone cares too much bit still.

dgt

Ive a 156 sw.

Its smaller inside than the saloon, bizarrely...

It has a 2.0, plenty quick and returns about 35mpg. Comfy and handles very well

They are a nasty car to work on (try an alternator change for example) but servicing is easy. Air filter is fiddly and changing sides requires patience but not too bad otherwise

Belts every 30k miles (yes its actually 36 but i prefer to change them earlier) and it takes 2 belts (timing plus tensioner, 1.8 and 1.6 have just timing)

Upper wishbones wear out like confetti but change the rubber bushes for polyurethane and they will last a lot longer.

Some sw came with solid discs. Bin them and get vented

3rd gear can lose its syncro, regular oil changes prolongs box life

The less airbags the merrier, less chance for the light to come on.

Overall not a bad auld bus, usually ran down by people who never owned one. Just look after it well

Duke O Smiley

Tim is certainly running out if you want a good example, so be quick

Cleveland Hot Pocket

I had a 156 TS, I was never so glad to see the back of a car.
Nothing worked for longer than 24 hours. Was looking at a 166 man i should have gotten that instead. Clan't believe the diffrence in luck between my alfa and others, I suffered every known electrical issue under the sun.

ba_barabus

A lot of confusion here between the 156 and 159. Op is asking about both. I think it's fair to say the 156 is a nicer car to drive while the 159 has far superior ( for the overall majority of owners) build quality and reliability. there are common issues with the engines but these occur with most modern diesels. Most are down to incorrect servicing or usage. TheTS range of engines has well documented weak points like the belts but they are are great engine that just requires more tlc. Petrols in the 159 aren't great other than the rare ones outlined above.

OP you'd he better off researching both separately as they are very different cars other than the diesel engines. Just my 2cents. I have a 159 btw but it's a saloon.

wotswattage

Boskowski wrote: »

I love the look of them too but apparently they're absolutely shocking on the emissions. With any kind of decent engine in them youre actually better off with a pre 08 model as far as tax is concerned. I know not everyone cares too much bit still.

Not sure what engines you're talking about, but a diesel 2.4jtdm (210bhp) has cheaper tax based on emissions:
2007 2387cc €1034 tax for a year
2008 181 g/km €750 tax for a year

A petrol 2.2jts is the opposite
2007 2198cc €951 tax
2008 218 g/km €1200 tax

If I were getting a nice 159 I'd be getting a 2.4 diesel TI from the UK, but don't expect great mpg they are disappointingly thirsty for a diesel. Low to mid 30's for mixed driving. I'm only saying this because high mpg is one of the main reasons most people would get a diesel.

Boskowski

wotswattage wrote: »

Not sure what engines you're talking about, but a diesel 2.4jtdm (210bhp) has cheaper tax based on emissions:
2007 2387cc €1034 tax for a year
2008 181 g/km €750 tax for a year

A petrol 2.2jts is the opposite
2007 2198cc €951 tax
2008 218 g/km €1200 tax

If I were getting a nice 159 I'd be getting a 2.4 diesel TI from the UK, but don't expect great mpg they are disappointingly thirsty for a diesel. Low to mid 30's for mixed driving. I'm only saying this because high mpg is one of the main reasons most people would get a diesel.

My bad you're right. I always look at automatics cos I love automatic and the 2.4 jtdm with the auto box is 215g.

joe912

they are a fine looking motor alright and a bit different from the pack. but wouldn't expect much on the reliability front and like has been said England would be the place to look.
Have to say I had a top spec mondeo estate and they look well in the right colour

Foxhole Norman

If you're going for a 159 SW try and get the 2.4 Diesel or 1750TBi if going petrol, they are by far the best looking estate with one of those engines and the TI kit.

rs mivec

so the general feel im getting is that the UK would be my best bet. I could just go for a saloon which would improve my chances, does anybody know if they are isofix compatible?

I would only be going for one if it had a good history and proof of work which I don't think ill find in Ireland

Thanks for the reply's

rs mivec

OSI wrote: »

The suspension practically being a service item is the main worry with the diesels.

Do you mind telling me want this info is based on? not saying its not correct just wondering

rs mivec

dgt wrote: »

Ive a 156 sw.

Its smaller inside than the saloon, bizarrely...

It has a 2.0, plenty quick and returns about 35mpg. Comfy and handles very well

They are a nasty car to work on (try an alternator change for example) but servicing is easy. Air filter is fiddly and changing sides requires patience but not too bad otherwise

Belts every 30k miles (yes its actually 36 but i prefer to change them earlier) and it takes 2 belts (timing plus tensioner, 1.8 and 1.6 have just timing)

Upper wishbones wear out like confetti but change the rubber bushes for polyurethane and they will last a lot longer.

Some sw came with solid discs. Bin them and get vented

3rd gear can lose its syncro, regular oil changes prolongs box life

The less airbags the merrier, less chance for the light to come on.

Overall not a bad auld bus, usually ran down by people who never owned one. Just look after it well

Thanks for the info, the only work id do myself would be a simple service so as long as that is easy enough id be happy

how do you find the rear leg room? im thinking it wouldn't be much better than the impreza and id be better off in a 159

rs mivec

joe912 wrote: »

they are a fine looking motor alright and a bit different from the pack. but wouldn't expect much on the reliability front and like has been said England would be the place to look.
Have to say I had a top spec mondeo estate and they look well in the right colour

ive considered the mondeo alright I think its a good looking car too with the right spec

Ive a feeling unless I really go the extra mile to find the right Alfa ill end up in something like the mondeo or an a4 with no soul!

Foxhole Norman

rs mivec wrote: »

Do you mind telling me want this info is based on? not saying its not correct just wondering

My understanding with them the Diesel engines are heavy and the suspension is apparently made out of matchsticks which causes it to wear much quicker than your typical car, they also eat through tyres, Pred_Racer has first hand experience of this.

Ferris

I was looking at getting a 159 SW and UK seemed to be the only option. What struck me was due to the (relatively) high emissions of the 2.4jtd and 1750tbi, a newer, more expensive, 2.0jtd 170hp would be offer comparible performance and work out better value due to the lower VRT and road tax rates.

The exchange rate is more likely to be the killer here however.

I am stuck in a similar bind, the missus will only drive Alfas.

georgefalls

Ferris wrote: »

I was looking at getting a 159 SW and UK seemed to be the only option. What struck me was due to the (relatively) high emissions of the 2.4jtd and 1750tbi, a newer, more expensive, 2.0jtd 170hp would be offer comparible performance and work out better value due to the lower VRT and road tax rates.

The exchange rate is more likely to be the killer here however.

I am stuck in a similar bind, the missus will only drive Alfas.

Your missus has taste

H3llR4iser

You will hear a lot of hearsay about any Alfa Romeo.

What I can offer you is experience - I owned multiple Alfas through the years, currently have a 159 (saloon) and my dad had a 159 SW.

I wouldn't get a 156 today; They are some of the nicest saloons ever made when it comes to driving, I owned a 1.8 TS years ago; however it's an aging project - it first came out in 1998.

The 159 is a much more modern choice - better put together, more of a "solid" feel if you know what I mean, and much more refined throughout. It's not as nimble as the 156, but it's also not as heavy as widely reported (my 1.9 JTS weighed in at 1489kg on the NCT, while people claim it's 1700kg) and they certainly don't feel heavy when driving. You can't "toss" them around like the 156, but the grip limit is possibly even higher - it just takes a bit of "exploration" to understand it.

Now, the Sportwagon version is not exactly thought as a "load the house and then some more" estate. The loading can be quirky - there's quite a big lip at the bottom of the rear boot. It's an enthusiast's car with a bit of loading capability, to make it short.

Engine wise, diesels on 159s tend to be better than petrol engines to the point that unless you do short, repeated driving stints like me (hence the petrol without the DPF issues), I would actually forego the mileage considerations - this coming from somebody who wishes all diesel engines would disappear from cars

The one I would recommend warmly is the 2.0 JTDm, in the 170 HP version. My dad's Sportwagon (in Italy, LHD et all) has that one engine and, fate have mercy of me for praising an oil burner, it's a pleasure to drive. It's only marginally slower than the 2.4 but much more usable, it has a very elastic torque range and to be entirely honest, a decent sound for 2 liters diesel - decide for yourself (it actually sounds slightly throatier under load) :

If you are into fuel consumption considerations, the OBC on my dad's reports around 17km/L (around 48mpg for those still living in the Jurassic ) for mixed driving - 30% city, 70% motorways; He drives it like an Alfista should - so it's probably very possible to get better figures. Emissions wise, it's not the best but not bad either: at 139 g/km CO2, tax would be 280€ / year.

The 2.0 JTDm also has an F40 gearbox (although I heard unchecked rumors about some using a C635, same as the Giulietta), much more solid than the weak M32 that equipped the 1.9 JTDm.

Although it is by far the nicest specification, I would actually stay clear of the TI trim - it was designed to glide through the Italian Autostrada or the German Autobahn; If you are in Dublin no problem, but that trim was never thought to potter around the Irish countryside and its rash, unkempt roads.

Maintenance wise, don't skimp. Like all enthusiast cars, they like their service to be done properly (Alfa specialist if possible, if only to avoid the rolling eyes and the "why did you get an Alfa?" from ignorant "mechanics") and by using quality materials - do not put, say, Tesco engine oil in it.

Front wheel alignment needs to be kept in check - they have a tendency to wear down the inside of the tires: they'll look fine from the outside, while they might be completely worn on the inside. An Alfa specialist will know what to do.

Suspensions are less problematic than they were on the 156s; Especially if you shop in the UK, look for models refitted with "polybushes", as it was already suggested, which will last longer.

In general keep good care of a 159 and she'll keep good care of you.

For anything else, I would recommend you register and check www.alfaowner.com.

StereoSound

I had a 147 years ago...1.6 t spark but from my experience with it I "probably" wouldnt be going mad for another Alfa unless I was an enthusiast who was willing to put money into it.

My 147 turned into a witches brew of issues, engine management in particular was throwing codes due to broken connections that made a few mechanics scratch their heads over. It did drive quite nicely though to be fair to it. I love the look of those 159's though! A diesal variant for me.

dgt

rs mivec wrote: »

Thanks for the info, the only work id do myself would be a simple service so as long as that is easy enough id be happy

how do you find the rear leg room? im thinking it wouldn't be much better than the impreza and id be better off in a 159

Rear leg room isn't cramped, what I'd call snug. You'll be comfy but not much room to play with. I say this as a 6ft 2 gentleman.

What annoys me the most as a rear passenger is the widows at the rear only wind down halfway, unless you have rear electric windows

wotswattage

Another thing to watch for if you're going for a 159 saloon instead of an sw is that some rear seats fold flat and others are fixed with a ski hatch.
It's an option... I assumed mine folded until the day I went to put a mountain bike in!?!? How very Alfa of them...

georgefalls

dgt wrote: »

Rear leg room isn't cramped, what I'd call snug. You'll be comfy but not much room to play with. I say this as a 6ft 2 gentleman.

What annoys me the most as a rear passenger is the widows at the rear only wind down halfway, unless you have rear electric windows

Them damn 'widows'.. The awld buggas get everywhere

ZV Yoda

rs mivec wrote: »

so the general feel im getting is that the UK would be my best bet. I could just go for a saloon which would improve my chances, does anybody know if they are isofix compatible?

I would only be going for one if it had a good history and proof of work which I don't think ill find in Ireland

Thanks for the reply's

I have a 159 saloon. I love it. I'm pretty sure it's isofix compatible. That's a sensible approach re service history. Quite a few people bring them in here from the UK, and a lot of them do have full service histories.

I'm on the lookout for a SW, but it'd have to be the newer 200bhp 1750 TBi petrol engine. Buying a diesel was a mistake for me, because my mileage doesn't justify it. I simply couldn't find a petrol Ti when I was looking last year.

@H3llR4iser has given you some great advice there. I agree with most things - except the bit about driving a Ti in Ireland. While I do have to take a bit of extra care with speed bumps & multistory ramps, the Ti spec really sets it apart from everything else.

There's a 2010 Ti saloon for sale up the north at the minute. http://www.usedcarsni.com/2010-Alfa-Romeo-159-TI-16V-JTDM-150-141058650

If you really wanted to push the boat out, pop over to Veloces of London. They're expensive, but have a great selection of Alfas. This one is pretty much as good as it gets. I'm sorely tempted, but it's not cheap!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/alfa-romeo/159/alfa-romeo-159-1-75-tbi-ti-5dr--sunroof-and-roof-bars/3027906

wotswattage

^The saloon Ti advertised there is Isofix compatible, no idea if that's an option or standard...

Zoney

Very interesting, I was interested myself in one of these, love the look and would like the driving experience with one of the better engines. But saw a few in person and decided back would be too pokey.

Have a laguna myself and despite its faults thinking of going for a newer 2l diesel of the newer gen 3 (1.6 petrol gen 2 atm) or the estate. Lots of space inside, I like the exterior looks, and doesn't cost too much.

Mondeo would give the space too but the look doesn't appeal to me. Agree that the higher specs look better. And the new Mondeo of course would be fine. Really mondeo is probably what I "should" get.

Interested to hear any alternative ideas here for a big car when alfa appeals.

Still tempted by idea of living with the smaller 159 for a while just to experience it, but it'd have to be a good example, and then the price puts me off.

ba_barabus

I don't find the 159 snug in the back. The 156 is but not the 159.

H3llR4iser

ba_barabus wrote: »

I don't find the 159 snug in the back. The 156 is but not the 159.

In all fairness ain't the biggest - but certainly not out of depth when compared to a 3-Series or an A4, which are similarly small. Legroom behind the driver's seat can be an issue: there's very little leg room behind my seat - I am tall, but not freakishly so (6'1" roughly), and yet only a child or rather short adult would be fully comfortable in the back seat behind mine. Anyway it's an Alfa, I'm sitting in the only seat that counts on one