New van, tax query

I had an old early 2008 Van . It was taxed privately as it was only used in a private capacity. Private tax was more expensive than commercial tax but I believe I would have needed a VAT cert or Small Business register number or some such thing. Anyway it didn't really matter as the cost difference was small enough because it was just a 1.3 diesel van.........

Anyway..............

It's now gone and I have a new Ford Courier 1.5 diesel van. Again it is used just for private and domestic use. The tax to tax it privately on an emission basis is €190.... and commercial tax is €333

However............... the woman in the tax office has said we must tax it commercially and we explained that the vehicle is not used commercially and that we couldn't register the old van commercially unless it was de facto used as a commercial vehicle so the old van was taxed as a private vehicle too. This sounds like double standards to me and unless there has been a change in the law that I don't know about I think she is wrong. We refused to tax it commercially and left the tax office.

As of typing I am in Limbo and can't seem to find any information that would suggest that we must now tax a van we use as a private vehicle as a commercial vehicle. Any information on the various websites suggests that in fact, the van must be taxed as a private vehicle.

Does anyone have any definitive information on this ???

The van is used mainly for the family dogs and an occasional bicycle, that's all.

Any information gratefully appreciated......:)

P.S. it is under 3000 Kg....don't think that's relevant though, just a bit more info that's all.

P.P.S. Not sure I have this in the right sub forum, apologies if I have it in the wrong place.

Bpmull

Not sure if you meant to say insuranve or tax. I can't see why you can't tax the van privately however you will be paying a tax rate of 1.5 on the old system so that's around 500 euro. It's impossible to tax a van on the co2 emissions system you either pay 333 euro or commercial or pay cc old tax rates regardless of the age of the van. It's a kind of win win for revenue as it means you will always pay a minimum of 333 as otherwise everyone would be taxing new small vans privately to get 180-200 euro a year tax. That van would be under 3000kg.

JohnBoy26

Bpmull wrote: »

Not sure if you meant to say insuranve or tax. I can't see why you can't tax the van privately however you will be paying a tax rate of 1.5 on the old system so that's around 500 euro. It's impossible to tax a van on the co2 emissions system you either pay 333 euro or commercial or pay cc old tax rates regardless of the age of the van. It's a kind of win win for revenue as it means you will always pay a minimum of 333 as otherwise everyone would be taxing new small vans privately to get 180-200 euro a year tax. That van would be under 3000kg.

Provided it's not over 1499cc it should have an annual tax rate of €413 on the private system

Bpmull

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Provided it's not over 1499cc it should have an annual tax rate of €413 on the private system

That's not too bad so. Always knew under 1600cc was 514 for the year I didn't realise under 1500cc was that much lower.

George Dalton

As above the info you were given in the motor tax office was incorrect. You can and should tax the van privately. Only thing is you will have to pay at the CC rate. CO2 tax rates only apply to cars.

JohnBoy26

Bpmull wrote: »

That's not too bad so. Always knew under 1600cc was 514 for the year I didn't realise under 1500cc was that much lower.

There is a nice gap in terms of price between tax on a 1.5 and a 1.6 especially considering the gap is only €29 between a 1.4 and a 1.5

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

Not sure if you meant to say insuranve or tax. I can't see why you can't tax the van privately however you will be paying a tax rate of 1.5 on the old system so that's around 500 euro. It's impossible to tax a van on the co2 emissions system you either pay 333 euro or commercial or pay cc old tax rates regardless of the age of the van. It's a kind of win win for revenue as it means you will always pay a minimum of 333 as otherwise everyone would be taxing new small vans privately to get 180-200 euro a year tax. That van would be under 3000kg.

I don't understand that at all. My old van was taxed as a private vehicle.
Private vehicle tax is now emission based and €190.
Commercial vehicle Tax is now €333 for the same type of vehicle.


"otherwise everyone would be taxing new small vans privately to get 180-200 euro a year tax" ..................... surely same as the old ways.... commercial use you must get commercial Tax . Private use you must get Private Tax.

Previously the type of tax was dependant on the type of use of the vehicle, i.e. was the van used in either a commercial or private/domsetic capacity.

Surely to god they can't just change the goalposts willy nilly.... Last Year it was mandatory to Tax my previous van as a Private vehicle. This year they decide to make me Tax my new (private use van) van Commercially ! As I say I have seen nothing to suggest that the rules have changed other than the woman in the Tax office telling me I suddenly can't tax my vehicle privately when last year I couldn't tax my previous vehicle commercially !!!

JohnBoy26

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Provided it's not over 1499cc it should have an annual tax rate of €413 on the private system

Its a new van and on the private system (emissions based) its €190 euros.

Commercial tax for the same vehicle is €333.


My problen is that previous van was not allowed to be taxed commercially because it was not used as a commercial vehicle.

Likewise this van is not used as a commercial vehicle however they (tax office) now demand that I tax this new van commercially which is a contradiction as it is not in use as a commercial vehicle.

George Dalton

George Dalton wrote: »

As above the info you were given in the motor tax office was incorrect. You can and should tax the van privately. Only thing is you will have to pay at the CC rate. CO2 tax rates only apply to cars.

Can you tell me where to find that info please George.
The only references I can find are Private v Commercial. No mention of cars etc.

I got this on the RSA website..... Even if you don't use your van or jeep commercially, even if it's taxed privately, you'll still need to get an LCV test, not an NCT

It sounds as if the tax people have moved the goalposts to suit themselvesif I have to tax as a commercial vehicle.......

Like I say, previously for Tax purposes a small van was taxed on its usage.
Private for private use and commercial for commercial use.

Oh yeah, nearly forgot. Thanks for all the replies.............

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you tell me where to find that info please George.
The only references I can find are Private v Commercial. No mention of cars etc.

I got this on the RSA website..... Even if you don't use your van or jeep commercially, even if it's taxed privately, you'll still need to get an LCV test, not an NCT

It sounds as if the tax people have moved the goalposts to suit themselvesif I have to tax as a commercial vehicle.......

Like I say, previously for Tax purposes a small van was taxed on its usage.
Private for private use and commercial for commercial use.

This isn't a new thing though. Am I missing something here? Nothings changed. Vans were never co2.

Also, you can't expect NCTS to deal with vans can you? Given how big some are.

George Dalton

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you tell me where to find that info please George.
The only references I can find are Private v Commercial. No mention of cars etc.

I got this on the RSA website..... Even if you don't use your van or jeep commercially, even if it's taxed privately, you'll still need to get an LCV test, not an NCT

It sounds as if the tax people have moved the goalposts to suit themselvesif I have to tax as a commercial vehicle.......

Like I say, previously for Tax purposes a small van was taxed on its usage.
Private for private use and commercial for commercial use.

Nothing has changed, the rules are the same as they have always been. The problem is the lack of consistency in enforcement. It varies from county to county. You can even get told different things by different motor tax office employees in the same office.

The rules state that as you are not using the vehicle exclusively for commercial use then you must tax it privately.

However private tax on commercial vehicles is charged on the basis of CC. CO2 tax only applies to private cars. When you tax your van privately that doesn't change the fact that it is still a commercial vehicle. That is why it is still subject to the CVRT rather than the NCT. In other words simply taxing a commercial vehicle privately does not make it a private car. I clarified that personally with a guy in the motor tax policy department a few years back so I don't have any link to direct you to. But it is 100% accurate.

Now having said all that if you come across the right person in the tax office then you could well end up getting the CO2 rate. It has been known to happen. They can pretty much do what they like in there as far as I can see. Their computer systems are not automated. They can over-ride any requirements they like if they feel like it.

mossy50

if your having problems with taxing a van
why not just buy a car and fold the seats down cheap tax

CiniO

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't understand that at all. My old van was taxed as a private vehicle.
Private vehicle tax is now emission based and €190.
Commercial vehicle Tax is now €333 for the same type of vehicle.


"otherwise everyone would be taxing new small vans privately to get 180-200 euro a year tax" ..................... surely same as the old ways.... commercial use you must get commercial Tax . Private use you must get Private Tax.

Previously the type of tax was dependant on the type of use of the vehicle, i.e. was the van used in either a commercial or private/domsetic capacity.

Surely to god they can't just change the goalposts willy nilly.... Last Year it was mandatory to Tax my previous van as a Private vehicle. This year they decide to make me Tax my new (private use van) van Commercially ! As I say I have seen nothing to suggest that the rules have changed other than the woman in the Tax office telling me I suddenly can't tax my vehicle privately when last year I couldn't tax my previous vehicle commercially !!!

Motor tax people are wrong. If you don't use your van for business purposes, you can not tax it as commercial.

On the other hand, only tax category assigned to vans is category for goods vehicles used for business purposes, known in short as "commercial. As your van doesn't fall under that category (as you don't use it for business purposes) it automatically falls under default category, which is based on engine size.

So only way to tax it, is by engine size.

Here's all the details:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2013/en/act/pub/0009/print.html

Point 4 describes all categories of vehicles and relevant tax rates.
Under subpoint 5, you can find what is normally called "commercial". It states clearly, that it applies to goods vehicles used for business purpose. As your van doesn't fulfil this condition, only other category you can tax it under is based on engine size, as you can see in the Act it's described as "other vehicles"

CiniO

George Dalton wrote: »

The rules state that as you are not using the vehicle exclusively for commercial use then you must tax it privately.

The rules say pretty much what you said, except from word "exclusively" which is never cited in the legislation.
This gives opportunity, to have commercially taxed vehicle, use it mainly for business use, but on top of that use it for private purposes as well.

R.O.R

OP - tax it on line.

www.motortax.ie , bang in the Reg number, stick in your card details, and 3 days later the private disc will land on your mat.

Sorted

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

This isn't a new thing though. Am I missing something here? Nothings changed. Vans were never co2.

Also, you can't expect NCTS to deal with vans can you? Given how big some are.

No, I just meant it seemed to reference vans as taxed as commercial vehicles, probably put it in bad context.
Anyway as was posted vans are indeed taxed privately if used privately and it is as was posted €413.
Rip off for Private small van tax but I suppose it is rip off Republic after all........
Sheriff of Nottingham springs to mind.:(

Yes you are spot on. I rang the Department of the Environment to confirm before I parted with my hard earned cash.
The Tax website has the rates of vehicle Tax listed as follows

1. Private cars
2. Goods Vehicles

There is nothing on the site about the exorbitant rate for a commercial vehicle in private use (wonder why that is ?). I think it stinks to high heaven that I have a van with low emissions, much smaller than many cars and have to pay over double the standard private car rate and nearly €100 more than an equivalent commercial vehicle rate in order to have something to carry my dogs in.

One things for sure, when a friend arrived in his new Audi A4 a few years ago and asked me how much road tax we were paying on a 13 year old Micra and laughed when I told him because his road tax was almost identical to mine I made up my mind there and then that the Greens would never ever again get a preference on any ballot cast from our family........

Cheers, sorted.............

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

This isn't a new thing though. Am I missing something here? Nothings changed. Vans were never co2.

Also, you can't expect NCTS to deal with vans can you? Given how big some are.

As far as I was aware vans used privately prior to 2008 were taxed along with cars as Private Vehicles.

Something has indeed changed.
There are now Private cars and Commercial vehicles taxed as private vehicles.

There was not three class's there was two. Now there's three.....:(
Never mentioned the NCTS at all, apologies for the confusion.

R.O.R

R.O.R wrote: »

OP - tax it on line.

www.motortax.ie , bang in the Reg number, stick in your card details, and 3 days later the private disc will land on your mat.

Sorted

Cheers, sorted.

Thanks again for all the answers and signing off on this one. ...........