Is it a mad idea or maybe a good place to start

yellow50HX

With the lack of decent SFP to supplement it I have been thinking that maybe there isn't much future for my suckler enterprise so it might be time to look again at dairy. To be honest time wise I am spending as much time work on the farm as I would dairying these days, the only diffrence is when all the cows are out as I don't have to milk them.

I might be changing roles in work over the next few months which will free up at bit of time as I'll be moving to a role with flexitime. Anyway I was thinking at as I'll be starting around 7 and finishing around 3:30 I should have enough time to milk cows in the evening, but I'll still need to pay a milker for morning milking ( and Sundays).

Farm was in dairy for years so I still have the parlour building but it'll need to be upgraded and I'll have to build extra slurry storage. But I was thinking it might be ok as start point as it might be able to make enough to put aside money to upgrade the parlour and housing in the coming years.

With all the changes we are going to see in the next few years I was thinking there might still be room for a 50-60 cow herd.

What kinda money would a milker cost for 50 cows 7 times a week?

What kinda money would I need to refit the parlour. It was built as a 8x8 herring bone in the early 80's. Building is good but I would say it needs work to upgrade it to required spec. Think of it as a builders finish so what kinda money would need to be spent on a milking machine , tank, cooler and finishing?

I reckon I'll need to put in slurry storage of about 200,000 litres (4 bay tank) so that might be around 25-40 k if I roof it.

We still have the old cubicles which the sucklers cows are happy out in but they might need and up grade for dairy. What kinda cost are new ones?

Finally the old roads way will need to be completely rebuilt, what kinda price are they?

Mad4simmental

Can't help you much, but best of luck to you & I hope you do well.

I'd imagine seckond hand parlers are two a penny.

onyerbikepat

I was surprised at reading in the Journal this week, where a large dairy farmer (500 cows) was milking once a day in the spring. It might be a runner for part time guys.

blue5000

Ask leg wax, he was dairying, then suckling now going back milking again.

Reggie.

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I was surprised at reading in the Journal this week, where a large dairy farmer (500 cows) was milking once a day in the spring. It might be a runner for part time guys.

BIL is milking a 600 herd once a day this weather also

Count Mondego

Would you not want to wait and see the dust settle after the quotas go? I'd suggest waiting at least 3 years to see how price pans out.

Fair play to anyone who manages dairy and a full time job. Talking to a midwife in the maternity hospital a few weeks ago and she was saying that her husband is up at 5 every morning milking 50 cows before heading off to work. Pure madness imo.

tomieen jones

To do all the upgrades your talking about you will need an agricultural loan which you should get no problem! Thing is you will be milking cows for the bank!!

frazzledhome

tomieen jones wrote: »

To do all the upgrades your talking about you will need an agricultural loan which you should get no problem! Thing is you will be milking cows for the bank!!

Imagine if we all thought like that!!!!

Buford T. Justice XIX

yellow50HX wrote: »

With the lack of decent SFP to supplement it I have been thinking that maybe there isn't much future for my suckler enterprise so it might be time to look again at dairy. To be honest time wise I am spending as much time work on the farm as I would dairying these days, the only diffrence is when all the cows are out as I don't have to milk them.

I might be changing roles in work over the next few months which will free up at bit of time as I'll be moving to a role with flexitime. Anyway I was thinking at as I'll be starting around 7 and finishing around 3:30 I should have enough time to milk cows in the evening, but I'll still need to pay a milker for morning milking ( and Sundays).

Farm was in dairy for years so I still have the parlour building but it'll need to be upgraded and I'll have to build extra slurry storage. But I was thinking it might be ok as start point as it might be able to make enough to put aside money to upgrade the parlour and housing in the coming years.

With all the changes we are going to see in the next few years I was thinking there might still be room for a 50-60 cow herd.

What kinda money would a milker cost for 50 cows 7 times a week?

What kinda money would I need to refit the parlour. It was built as a 8x8 herring bone in the early 80's. Building is good but I would say it needs work to upgrade it to required spec. Think of it as a builders finish so what kinda money would need to be spent on a milking machine , tank, cooler and finishing?

I reckon I'll need to put in slurry storage of about 200,000 litres (4 bay tank) so that might be around 25-40 k if I roof it.

We still have the old cubicles which the sucklers cows are happy out in but they might need and up grade for dairy. What kinda cost are new ones?

Finally the old roads way will need to be completely rebuilt, what kinda price are they?

As one poster said, good second hand parlours and tanks are available for smallish money. I don't think any extra slurry storage is needed for dairy over suckler cows but I am not certain. Just keep enough cows for your available storage until you get sorted.

A dairy washings tank that could be spread all your might get you over the hump for small money again.

Farm relief milking for 60 cows costs about €40 a milking so you might be able to get a local lad for a few bob less.

Best of luck anyway, plenty of help over on the dairy thread if you need it.

freedominacup

Having gone down a similar road myself don't overestimate your knowledge. And don't assume it'll all come back to you. I'm four years back at it and the number of things I'm only getting right again this spring is hard to credit. Grassland management is easy getting husbandry right is the challenge. No comparison in the income that can be generated though.

onyerbikepat

I'll be shot for this, but - assume a 20% drop in milk prices and see if it worth your while then.
I can't find the link now, but some French Economic Institute predicted a 10% increase in milk supply in Europe with a 20 % drop in price.

AP2014

blue5000 wrote: »

Ask leg wax, he was dairying, then suckling now going back milking again.

Sounds like this lad will be back at sucklers next year with a fall in milk prices on the way and beef prices improving.

Milked out

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I'll be shot for this, but - assume a 20% drop in milk prices and see if it worth your while then.
I can't find the link now, but some French Economic Institute predicted a 10% increase in milk supply in Europe with a 20 % drop in price.

Your right to factor in a low milk price in order to prepare for the years when it is poor but basing decisions on one year is not the way to go, use an average price over 5 years. If you can get up and running with aa little debt as possible and get money coming in then add as you need when you have a better bearing on things.
OP the main things would be a roadway and good access to paddocks for easier mgt of grass and to allow you or relief to move cows yourself easily on yer own. A secondhand 10 unit parlour should be picked up easily enough, a local serviceman may help on that. Drafting may make life easier again this is not essential and can be done later put something to bare in mind when setting up parlour, doesn't have to b electronic either a rope and spring on a gate can do. Cubicles u have may do just make sure the cow has space to lunge forward when getting up as that can catch cows more than anything else I find.

yellow50HX

Count Mondego wrote: »

Would you not want to wait and see the dust settle after the quotas go? I'd suggest waiting at least 3 years to see how price pans out.

Fair play to anyone who manages dairy and a full time job. Talking to a midwife in the maternity hospital a few weeks ago and she was saying that her husband is up at 5 every morning milking 50 cows before heading off to work. Pure madness imo.

Well that was my thinking, I wouldn't be looking to do it this year. Would look to see where the milk prices settle and wait for the rush to finish. But I would be looking at any potential capital work like sheds or the like to be planned in case I go that way.

Wouldn't be looking at milking morning and evening so I would need to factor in a milker for half the time.

yellow50HX

Milked out wrote: »

Your right to factor in a low milk price in order to prepare for the years when it is poor but basing decisions on one year is not the way to go, use an average price over 5 years. If you can get up and running with aa little debt as possible and get money coming in then add as you need when you have a better bearing on things.
OP the main things would be a roadway and good access to paddocks for easier mgt of grass and to allow you or relief to move cows yourself easily on yer own. A secondhand 10 unit parlour should be picked up easily enough, a local serviceman may help on that. Drafting may make life easier again this is not essential and can be done later put something to bare in mind when setting up parlour, doesn't have to b electronic either a rope and spring on a gate can do. Cubicles u have may do just make sure the cow has space to lunge forward when getting up as that can catch cows more than anything else I find.

This would be my thinking...

Current parlour could be extended to take a 10 unit. And I could let them out new door on the wall. I reckon there will be good milk prices this year and I think it'll mask some of the problems due to the drought in NZ and I parts of the US. But there will be over supply for a bit and whe it settles down in 2016 and 2017 the price maybe a lot lower.

I think I need to work out what kinda of price per litre my fixed costs will work out as 1st so hence my query a on the costs for the change over as these will be new costs. If I add these to my expected variable costs it'll give a fair idea of what it ll be worth to me. I would be looking at a base price for my costings about 25-30% below the average but I reckon the price will be artificially high in 2015&2016.

frazzledhome

Would you consider rearing heifers on your home farm and getting into an equity arrangement with an established farmer.

Jack the job and go hard or go home

Knowing nothing of your situation I'm only throwing it out for discussion!!

Btw, to answer your question I don't think you're mad at all.

yellow50HX

frazzledhome wrote: »

Would you consider rearing heifers on your home farm and getting into an equity arrangement with an established farmer.

Jack the job and go hard or go home

Knowing nothing of your situation I'm only throwing it out for discussion!!

Btw, to answer your question I don't think you're mad at all.

Thought about the rearing option but think this may be a better option in a few years when dairy has settled down a bit as there may or may not be a market for in in a few years.

Not planning on packing in the job anytime soon as I doubt full time farming would be feasible as the farm is small.

Share farming may be an option but as in that kind of partnership it would be the farm assets and stock that I would be brining to the party again as the farm is small I reckon any partnership would be only short term and I'd be back to square one.

ellewood

frazzledhome wrote: »

Would you consider rearing heifers on your home farm and getting into an equity arrangement with an established farmer.

Jack the job and go hard or go home

Knowing nothing of your situation I'm only throwing it out for discussion!!

Btw, to answer your question I don't



think you're mad at all.

+1 on the contract rearing find a good dairy man to rear heifers for, grow as much grass as place will allow and stock place to match it and I think youll find u will make nearly as much without the extra cap exp, oh yea still keep the day job no bother

Willfarman

You are definitely not mad. In a lot of cases guys with suitable farms (including myself) are not getting into milk for reasons like laziness, fear of failure and a dislike for upsetting lifestyle! But would try convince themselves and others that it is down to superior cleverness and business acumen.

leg wax

legs will get in and out to suit himself and does no care what the neighbours say.
i have poured 10 k of concrete , 8k on tank , 6 k on steel including crush.milk tank 5k ,parlour 25k approx ,10 k on other work.adds up very quick, 30k loan to get me going . all just to milk 48 cows hopefully in comfort and in a hour i hope.

onyerbikepat

Looking through Donedeal there. A lot of good quality suckler herds up for sale now.

Mac Taylor

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Looking through Donedeal there. A lot of good quality suckler herds up for sale now.

To be fair, everyyear it's the same, my local mart has regular herd clearances yet the number of weanlings coming through the mart is similar. A lot of older guys reducing numbers but plenty of guys buying.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Willfarman wrote: »

You are definitely not mad. In a lot of cases guys with suitable farms (including myself) are not getting into milk for reasons like laziness, fear of failure and a dislike for upsetting lifestyle! But would try convince themselves and others that it is down to superior cleverness and business acumen.

We all fear failure. But we work extra hard to prevent it.

At the end of the day, we have to make a decision on what future we want to have and we want our families to have. No single solution of milking cows suits everyone.

Milking cows suits me at the minute but I am not wedded to the idea of it every day for the next 40 years.

But it's nice to invest to give the best options to anyone that might come after.

visatorro

im doin it here myself. was gonna say i don't know whether im cracked or not, but iv come to the conclusion that im not right in the head.

im going to merge a couple of threads here but.
on the dairy farming general at the minute is abit of commenting about lack of ambition by the new generation, not taking chances in the industry. but the end game is profit. taking on with more land/cows is not goin to guarantee more profit. however im guaranteed money in my account every Friday from my off farm job. this plus the profit from my dairy farm(average size) is more than i will get a year taking on with a large expansion project, without the risk imv. instead of expansion should people be looking literally out of the box??

contractors
get contractors for everything. slurry, silage, fert, reseeding. if taking on madness of two jobs your time becomes the most valuable thing you have. do spend money on time saving things on yard, drafting, extra units etc. i know i use contractors for everything but i would prefer to do as much milking as i can myself, trust issues and probably because good milkers are expensive also.

take a day off. even if you have no family, you will go mad without time off.

Markcheese

I'd agree about using contractors for everything , and with getting set up right if your part time farming -go as simple as you can though - with regards to a milker it might be well worth while getting a share milker - if you can find someone local(male or female) who's got a small farm at home but needs a bit more regular income as well as driving on profit by doing their job properly ..
Or go farm relief and don't be afraid to haggle - a place that a good milker'd be out of in an hour, hour and a half .and does 6 days a week every week is a lot better than an occasional milking at a high rate - the big deal with farm relief is insurance and not worrying about the tax man ect.?

yellow50HX

Been thinking over a few more things......

Slurry storage wise I should be ok as I have a 4 bay slatted tank so it should be fine for winters.

Thing is I would need to put in a soiled water tank. From what I have read on the cork co co website is that I need to have enough storage for 15 days worth of washings. But as these are not viewed as slurry I can spread through the rest of the year. I was think of getting one of those pre cast tanks as I can put it below the parlour and let it gravity drain into it. The existing holding yard is not covered but as we used to always wash it down after milking I would do the same again from what I remember this is also deemed as soiled water. Just wondering what size would be required for a 50 cow herd?

Other thing is that as it about 10 years sice the parlour was used I'm wondering if there are extra requirments for the walls and floors? Dairy was and still is wash proof but the floors may need to be re done. These are concrete does it now need to be lined/coated. Ditto with the milking area, does it need to very resurfaced?

grazeaway

If you paying a lad for milking that will be 8-10 k a year.

Am in a similar boat but reckon that could wipe out what profit is made after the merchants, contractors,vets and bank are paid.

Something of a catch 22 situation to be honest. Have cleared the debt on the farm but no there isn't much left at the end of the year.

Would like to get back into dairy as without the SPF there isn't much for dry stock farmers. Had thought about buying Fr bull calves but while they will be cheap you will need access to cheap feed to get them to factory condition.

we have a lot of the infrastructure in place but would need to build a new parlour and rebuild the paddock roadways. As I work full time off farm I too would need to employer a lad to do at least half if not more of the milking.

Have read a bit on share milking and came across a bit of it when traveling in NZ but not sure if we have the culture for it here. To be honest for the likes of me it would make sense. Having the land, sheds and parlour as well as a share of the cows if someone was able to provide the bulk of the labour and management skills as well as extra stock it could be a runner.

But like all good partnerships you would need to be able to work with and thrust each other. I wouldn't have a neighbour or relative that would be in that boat so it could be the case of having to look around.

Might have to set up an online dating profile
" dairy farm and cows, seek like minded individual for long grassland walks and milking duties"