CAP and Scrub

Jayzesake

Folks,

In the most recent post in the (excellent) thread in this forum on Hen Harriers, Open Your Eyes praised Paddy Woodworth's article on the subject in the IT, but also rightly IMO drew attention to the following in that article:

"When our marginal farmers abandon holdings that are often no longer commercially viable, scrubland usually quickly dominates the mosaics of habitats that birds such as the hen harrier need to survive and that farmers used to keep open. There is surely something encouraging about this mutual dependence between our own and other species."

Like Open Your Eyes, that paragraph had jumped out at me in what was otherwise a very good article. I find it baffling that someone who has recently published a book looking at the potential of restoration ecology (Our Once and Future Planet) sees scrub as something negative. Scrub is the first stage in a successional process that over time leads to wild, naturally grown (i.e. not planted), native woodland - something which is pretty scarce on this island. That scarcity is especially unfortunate given that woodland habitats once covered most of Ireland before their clearance for agriculture. That besides, even in its own right, scrub has great value to wildlife, including many bird species.

I live in a rural area - not a million miles away from where the Hen Harrier was recently shot - and all around me farmers regularly grub up scrub in varying degrees of succession, quite often including relatively mature native (even oak) woodland, in order to increase/maintain their farm payments. I don't in any way blame the farmers, as they have their livelihoods to think of, but it is an insane situation to have the CAP, which makes such a fuss about biodiversity, financially penalising farmers who don't destroy regenerating natural habitat on their land. (Sorry, that should read ...who don't keep their land in 'good agricultural condition'.)

Interestingly however, and this is perhaps the main point of this post, I did hear a guy from An Taisce (can't remember his name) being interviewed on Today With Sean O'Rourke a few weeks ago specifically state that this requirement for farm payments was to be done away with in 2015, though he didn't go into further details.

Just wondering if anyone here knows more about this?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

There is an awful lot more to a wildlife friendly area of scrub than just letting an area become overgrown and neglected. Scrub has to be managed to ensure a range of plant species of varying ages. It needs structure. Totally neglected areas that run to scrup are often mistakenly believed to be diverse wild areas but they can easily become just an overgrown monoculture of little wildlife value.
In short there is scrub and then there is scrub.

OpenYourEyes

I think you can appreciate the value of scrub while also acknowleding the risk of agricultural land abandonment of a site/area. It very much depends on what the site is managed for (i.e. if it's an SPA or SAC), and what the surrounding landscape is like. But certainly the blanket policy of getting rid of all scrub is very damaging - again, blame the Department of Agriculture! If there'sone thing we know it's that a one-size-fits-all policy doesn't work with something like this - particularly when you're incentivising farmers to get rid of scrub and land that isn't in good agricultural condition, and then paying them to create and managing habitats that fit that bill.

Jayzesake

Demetrius Green Cracker wrote: »

Scrub has to be managed to ensure a range of plant species of varying ages.

If you're talking about the need to ensure that invasive exotic species don't move in, or the need to sometimes reintroduce lost native species, then we're in agreement.

However ecological succession to woodland often begins with a limited number of pioneer species (birch, sally, etc.) creating the conditions in which other species can then begin to live. Hence the initial phases of natural woodland regeneration (scrub) can often seem to be just 2 or 3 tree species, uniformly aged, without diversity or structure, together with often rampant growth by other aggressive species such as bramble.

But that should be seen as a necessary but temporary phase in the only (unfortunately long, by our timeframe) process that can create natural woodland; the structure and diversity will come with time. We need to be wary of our species' characteristic need to manage environments: nature itself is always going to do a far better job of creating natural habitat than we can!

None of that is to say that in certain limited situations a particularly rich man-made habitat (for e.g. parts of the Burren) shouldn't sometimes be maintained against the encroachment of scrub, but that should be the exception, rather than the rule. Nor would we want too much farmland to revert to woodland, particularly in more fertile areas. But as things stand there is very definitely a very major lack of natural woodland in this country, and that is the context within which this should be viewed.

Woodville56

With the arrival of Spring also the start of the scrub clearing and burning frenzy. As I looked over the local countryside this morning I could see in the distance the billowing smoke from at least 3 scrub clearing fires, possibly more - it was hard to tell from all the smoke ! And a couple of miles away a lakeside area of scrub and wasteland of at least 20 hectares being cleared in preparation for commercial afforestation by the landowner. While the area isn't a habitat of particular scientific value it was rich in biodiversity, and has been in its wild state as far back as I can remember. It was one of only 2 sites locally where I recorded a pair of Redshank (possibly breeding ?) for the 2007-2011 Bird Atlas. It was also one of the best and most reliable sites for breeding Stonechat locally as well as wintering ground for a small flock of Golden Plover. That was then, before the non resident landowner erected the galvanised railings and "No Trespassing" signs at the entrance ! And now it's alive with the hum of earth clearing machines and the smoke from the scrub clearance fires. Sad really !

Deranged96

Jayzesake wrote: »

Folks,

In the most recent post in the (excellent) thread in this forum on Hen Harriers, Open Your Eyes praised Paddy Woodworth's article on the subject in the IT, but also rightly IMO drew attention to the following in that article:

"When our marginal farmers abandon holdings that are often no longer commercially viable, scrubland usually quickly dominates the mosaics of habitats that birds such as the hen harrier need to survive and that farmers used to keep open. There is surely something encouraging about this mutual dependence between our own and other species."

Like Open Your Eyes, that paragraph had jumped out at me in what was otherwise a very good article. I find it baffling that someone who has recently published a book looking at the potential of restoration ecology (Our Once and Future Planet) sees scrub as something negative. Scrub is the first stage in a successional process that over time leads to wild, naturally grown (i.e. not planted), native woodland - something which is pretty scarce on this island. That scarcity is especially unfortunate given that woodland habitats once covered most of Ireland before their clearance for agriculture. That besides, even in its own right, scrub has great value to wildlife, including many bird species.

I live in a rural area - not a million miles away from where the Hen Harrier was recently shot - and all around me farmers regularly grub up scrub in varying degrees of succession, quite often including relatively mature native (even oak) woodland, in order to increase/maintain their farm payments. I don't in any way blame the farmers, as they have their livelihoods to think of, but it is an insane situation to have the CAP, which makes such a fuss about biodiversity, financially penalising farmers who don't destroy regenerating natural habitat on their land. (Sorry, that should read ...who don't keep their land in 'good agricultural condition'.)

Interestingly however, and this is perhaps the main point of this post, I did hear a guy from An Taisce (can't remember his name) being interviewed on Today With Sean O'Rourke a few weeks ago specifically state that this requirement for farm payments was to be done away with in 2015, though he didn't go into further details.

Just wondering if anyone here knows more about this?

I was watching Ear to The Ground (Best show ever) and one of the ornithologists discussing the recent hen harrier shooting said that hen harriers don't thrive in wooded areas.

They use very young trees as nest sites but will abandon areas of abundant mature trees.

So maybe the author of that article was referencing solely the relationship between land cultivation and hen harriers?

Also if someone could help me understand how a bird of grassland is native to Ireland when naturally the Island would be one massive forest?

Thanks

Birdnuts

Deranged96 wrote: »

Also if someone could help me understand how a bird of grassland is native to Ireland when naturally the Island would be one massive forest?

Thanks

They would have bred on coastal barrens,bogs,heaths and high mountains. All habitats with naturally sparse tree cover

Deranged96

Birdnuts wrote: »

They would have bred on coastal barrens,bogs,heaths and high mountains. All habitats with naturally sparse tree cover

Ah I see! thank you

Jayzesake

Jayzesake wrote: »

Interestingly however, and this is perhaps the main point of this post, I did hear a guy from An Taisce (can't remember his name) being interviewed on Today With Sean O'Rourke a few weeks ago specifically state that this requirement [i.e. to clear any scrub] for farm payments was to be done away with in 2015, though he didn't go into further details.

Just wondering if anyone here knows more about this?

Still wondering if anyone on this forum knows anything about the truth - or otherwise - of this?

I suppose I could ask the question on the farming forum (that may be my next resort), but it seems to me a crucial issue for Irish wildlife, hence relevant here.

Thanks

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Jayzesake wrote: »

Still wondering if anyone on this forum knows anything about the truth - or otherwise - of this?

I suppose I could ask the question on the farming forum (that may be my next resort), but it seems to me a crucial issue for Irish wildlife, hence relevant here.

Thanks

I think you'd get more from the farming forum on the ins and outs of this on the ground.

Birdnuts

Jayzesake wrote: »

Still wondering if anyone on this forum knows anything about the truth - or otherwise - of this?

I suppose I could ask the question on the farming forum (that may be my next resort), but it seems to me a crucial issue for Irish wildlife, hence relevant here.

Thanks

There was never any requirement to clear scrub etc. on any designated land like NHA,SAC, SPA.s etc. This was clarified by the EU late last year after concerned farming groups travelled to Brussels after meeting with much misinformation and spin put out by our own Dept of Agriculture on the subject. On other land, the issue will become clearer when the lastest RDP is published and approved by the EU later this year. In any case farming policies across the EU must be "cross compliant" with Enviromental Directives from Brussels and clearly this country has fallen down in that area. Other issues include the activites of the Dept of Agri's sattelite mapping section that were trying to fine farmers for ridicolous stuff like having heather on Mountains. Since heather is grazing forage, that was clearly wrong under the current CAP regime.

Zoo4m8

I haven't heard anything about the issue..and I was at a tillage seminar last week where the all the new CAP regimes were covered. Personally I wouldn't be overly swayed by an An Tasice comment, but that's just me.
The SFP is getting more and more complicated and Birdnuts has covered a couple of relevent points. I can see a time in the future when scrub identified as a particular habitat and even being outside a designated area will receive payments and will be required to be retained but seeing the hames the Dept has made of other designated areas I won't be holding my breath..

Jayzesake

Birdnuts wrote: »

There was never any requirement to clear scrub etc. on any designated land like NHA,SAC, SPA.s etc. This was clarified by the EU late last year after concerned farming groups travelled to Brussels after meeting with much misinformation and spin put out by our own Dept of Agriculture on the subject. On other land, the issue will become clearer when the lastest RDP is published and approved by the EU later this year. In any case farming policies across the EU must be "cross compliant" with Enviromental Directives from Brussels and clearly this country has fallen down in that area.

Much obliged, Birdnuts, that is exactly the type of info I was looking for.

Jayzesake

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

I can see a time in the future when scrub identified as a particular habitat and even being outside a designated area will receive payments and will be required to be retained...

IMO it's a disgrace that this is not already the case; let's hope it changes in the near future. I believe some of the wildlife groups (for e.g. the IWT, though I could be mistaken) also made submissions to this effect recently.

djmc

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/new-farm-organisation-takes-minister-to-task-on-inspections/
There is an interesting thread over in farming and forestry under commonage and hill farmers issues by con who set up this new farming organization.