Strangely low charges on Leap Card?

mrcheez

I was travelling yesterday (a Saturday so perhaps that's a factor) using my Leap Card for the first time.

I took the first bus for which I was charged the correct amount of €2.05.
I got off to change buses.

The second bus trip had about three times the number of stages yet I was only charged €1.05?!?

Then on the way home I got the LUAS and Irish Rail ... LUAS I was charged the correct amount €1.70, but on the Irish Rail trip I was only charged €1.05 (whereas the website says a Leap Card price for the trip is €2.05).

I'm not complaining, just curious what's going on. Is it the capping mechanism kicking in? I thought it capped around the €6 mark.


For additional info: it's a standard Leap card, not student/child or whatever

uck51js9zml2yt

Was the second journey within 90 minutes of starting the first.?

mrcheez

Trey CoolS Multimillionaire wrote: »

Was the second journey within 90 minutes of starting the first.?

yep.. sorry you mean the second bus?

The return journey on LUAS / Irish Rail was about 6 hours later if that's what u meant

LXFlyer

It's the LEAP90 Discount kicking in.


From the LEAP website:

Leap 90 Discount (From 2nd February, applies to Dublin Bus, Luas, DART/Commuter Rail)

When a Leap Card user takes two or more trips on Dublin Bus, Luas, DART/Commuter Rail within 90 minutes of each other, a “Leap90 Discount” will be automatically applied to their second and subsequent fares. See below table for applicable discounts.

Leap card / fare type

Leap 90 Discount

Adult (anonymous / personalised) - €1

Student - €1

Child (4-15 / 16-18) - 75c

• Applies to fares paid using Travel Credit only.
• 90 minute time period starts at initial Touch On i.e. when you start your first trip.
• Where the second trip is for a fare that is less than €1, then discount will equal the lower amount. E.G. if the second trip is a city centre fare for 60 cents, the discount will be 60 cents.
• Does not apply to travelling companions sharing a single Leap card.
• Does not apply to Bus Éireann, Swords Express, City Direct, Matthews Coaches, Wexford Bus and Collins Coaches.
• Subject to certain restrictions: e.g. Airlink and Dublin Bus Tour services not included. See below for full set of terms and conditions.
• Discounts are being introduced on a promotional basis and may be subject to change.

FAQs

When is it being introduced on Dublin Bus, Luas, Dart and Commuter Rail?

It was introduced on Dublin Bus for Bus to Bus trips in late 2014. It is being introduced on Luas, DART/Commuter Rail on Monday 2nd Feb 2015.


What multi-mode trips will the Leap 90 Discount apply on?

• Luas – Dublin Bus and Dublin Bus - Luas
• Luas – DART/Commuter Rail and DART/Commuter Rail – Luas
• DART/Commuter Rail – Dublin Bus and Dublin Bus – DART/Commuter Rail
• Dublin Bus – Dublin Bus (launched Nov 2014)

It applies to as many of these types of journeys that can be completed within 90 minutes of each other (measured from start to start of each leg of the journey). For example someone making a DART/Commuter Rail – Luas – Dublin Bus journey with their Leap Card Travel Credit will receive the Leap 90 Discount twice (DART/Commuter Rail – Luas & Luas – Dublin Bus), provided that the time between each boarding does not exceed 90 minutes.


How does it work?

The customer doesn’t need to sign up for it; it works automatically in the background. The fare for the second leg of the journey is recalculated and discounted before any deduction is made from the cardholder’s Leap Travel Credit.


What do you mean by DART/Commuter Rail?

DART/Commuter Rail refers to Iarnród Éireann services in the “short hop zone”.





Does this Leap 90 Discount apply to all Dublin Bus, Luas, DART and Commuter Rail trips?

• It applies to all Luas journeys that are preceded by a journey on Dublin Bus or DART/Commuter Rail using Leap Travel Credit that were commenced within the previous 90 minutes.
• It applies to all DART/Commuter Rail journeys that are preceded by a journey on Dublin Bus or Luas using Leap Travel Credit that were commenced within the previous 90 minutes.
• It applies to all Dublin Bus journeys (excluding Airlink) that are preceded by a journey on Dublin Bus, Luas, DART or Commuter Rail using Leap Travel Credit that were commenced within the previous 90 minutes.

N.B. It does not apply to Luas to Luas journeys or DART/Commuter Rail to DART/Commuter Rail journeys as these trips already have specific discounted fares.


When does the 90 minute start and end?

The 90 minutes starts when the customer Touches On their Leap Card on the first leg of their journey. The time between each boarding needs to be within 90 minutes.


Does the Leap 90 discount affect the Leap Card Luas or Multi-Operator Caps?

No, capping operates in the background independently of the Leap 90 Discount. Once a customer hits the Leap Card Single or Multi-Operator Caps for a day or week they won’t be charged any more that day or week. The customer will receive Leap 90 Discounts for each applicable journey until they reach a Cap.

mrcheez

Interesting... though this does mean one needs to be careful to only touch on when their LUAS / Train is nearing approach to minimise risk of losing out on subsequent transport that might experience delays (like buses caught in heavy traffic etc)

mrcheez

Just while I'm on the topic, can I use the credit balance on my Leap Card as normal credit?

I read somewhere that you can, but then I was told by a Dublin Bus official that you can only use the credit once.

It doesn't appear to be regarded as "credit" in the machines when scanning your balance.

LXFlyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Interesting... though this does mean one needs to be careful to only touch on when their LUAS / Train is nearing approach to minimise risk of losing out on subsequent transport that might experience delays (like buses caught in heavy traffic etc)

That would only arise where you're taking a third trip being honest, which would probably be a minority of cases, and where at least one of the first and middle trips are fairly long.

LXFlyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Just while I'm on the topic, can I use the credit balance on my Leap Card as normal credit?

I read somewhere that you can, but then I was told by a Dublin Bus official that you can only use the credit once.

It doesn't appear to be regarded as "credit" in the machines when scanning your balance.

Again from the LEAP website:

(c) If the Leap Card has a positive Travel Credit balance stored on it (i.e. equal to or greater than €0.01) but does not have enough Electronic Value for a journey being undertaken, the extra amount will be taken from any Deposit. The Leap Card customer will not be able to use Travel Credit again until it is topped up. When Travel Credit is next added to the Leap Card, the Deposit amount will be replenished and only the remaining amount will be added as Travel Credit.

mrcheez

lxflyer wrote: »

That would only arise where you're taking a third trip being honest, which would probably be a minority of cases, and where at least one of the first and middle trips are fairly long.

I've been unfortunately caught in situations where I had to wait extended periods for a train on a Sunday when I didn't have a timetable with me. But I use public transport so rarely that maybe they've improved things in recent years.

So a late train and delayed bus might be cutting it close, admittedly it would be a rarity though.

Also if there's an accident on the LUAS line and you're stuck on board this would cut into the 90 minutes. Again worst case scenarios

cdebru

mrcheez wrote: »

Just while I'm on the topic, can I use the credit balance on my Leap Card as normal credit?

I read somewhere that you can, but then I was told by a Dublin Bus official that you can only use the credit once.

It doesn't appear to be regarded as "credit" in the machines when scanning your balance.

No you can't use it as normal credit, but you can go into a negative balance on one transaction up to the value of the credit. Once your balance is negative you can't make any further transactions till you top up ( even if you are only 1cent minus balance.

bg07

lxflyer wrote: »

That would only arise where you're taking a third trip being honest, which would probably be a minority of cases, and where at least one of the first and middle trips are fairly long.

leapcard.ie wrote:

"provided that the time between each boarding does not exceed 90 minutes".

My reading of this would suggested that the 90 minutes reset each time you board a service. eg if you first board a service at 9am, then board another at 10.20am and then board another at 11:40am, then the 2nd and 3rd journey are due the discount even though the 3rd journey is not within 90 minutes of the first journey.

Aard

That's how I read it too. If that's the case you could conceivably get a bus into town, then get a 60c (free) city centre fare for one stop, then get the bus home with a €1 discount -- giving you up to three hours between starting the first leg and getting a bus home minus travelling/waiting time and the hassle of the city centre fare loophole. Realistically though that'd be at least two hours of town time, assuming the clock resets after every boarding.

mrcheez

So just to be clear, is it 90 mins between "tag-ons", or the time between "tagging-off and tagging on again"?

So...

- 9am - Tag on at railway station
- {insert random delay here which you discover after tagging on!}
- 10am - Board train
- 10.30 - Tag off at arrival station
(90 mins have passed since tagging on)

- 10.45 - Tag on to bus and continue next leg...
(15 mins passed between tagging-off and tagging-on)

Is the discount applied here because 15 mins between tags, or not applied as 105 mins between tagging-on?

If the latter case it would have been better off waiting to enter the station at 10 am.

I'm guessing it's tagging-on times as there is no tag-off for the Bus so no way to measure time between getting off the bus and getting next service.

LXFlyer

mrcheez wrote: »

So just to be clear, is it 90 mins between "tag-ons", or the time between "tagging-off and tagging on again"?

So...

- 9am - Tag on at railway station
- {insert random delay here which you discover after tagging on!}
- 10am - Board train
- 10.30 - Tag off at arrival station
(90 mins have passed since tagging on)

- 10.45 - Tag on to bus and continue next leg...
(15 mins passed between tagging-off and tagging-on)

Is the discount applied here because 15 mins between tags, or not applied as 105 mins between tagging-on?

If the latter case it would have been better off waiting to enter the station at 10 am.

I'm guessing it's tagging-on times as there is no tag-off for the Bus so no way to measure time between getting off the bus and getting next service.

It's from the time you first tag on.

In the above case you would not get a discount.

Let's be honest if you're planning a multi-leg trip like that, you would generally check the journey planner app, or www.a-b.ie first, or if you don't you should!

Victor

Tag-ons only, not tag-offs.

bg07

mrcheez wrote: »

So just to be clear, is it 90 mins between "tag-ons", or the time between "tagging-off and tagging on again"?

So...

- 9am - Tag on at railway station
- {insert random delay here which you discover after tagging on!}
- 10am - Board train
- 10.30 - Tag off at arrival station
(90 mins have passed since tagging on)

- 10.45 - Tag on to bus and continue next leg...
(15 mins passed between tagging-off and tagging-on)

Is the discount applied here because 15 mins between tags, or not applied as 105 mins between tagging-on?

If the latter case it would have been better off waiting to enter the station at 10 am.

I'm guessing it's tagging-on times as there is no tag-off for the Bus so no way to measure time between getting off the bus and getting next service.

Websites states that it is from the commencement of journeys so yes you would be better waiting until the train is about to come to tag on in that case.

Leapcard.ie-Dublin Bus Capping

leapcard.ie wrote:

What multi-mode trips will the Leap 90 Discount apply on?

• Luas – Dublin Bus and Dublin Bus - Luas
• Luas – DART/Commuter Rail and DART/Commuter Rail – Luas
• DART/Commuter Rail – Dublin Bus and Dublin Bus – DART/Commuter Rail
• Dublin Bus – Dublin Bus (launched Nov 2014)

It applies to as many of these types of journeys that can be completed within 90 minutes of each other (measured from start to start of each leg of the journey). For example someone making a DART/Commuter Rail – Luas – Dublin Bus journey with their Leap Card Travel Credit will receive the Leap 90 Discount twice (DART/Commuter Rail – Luas & Luas – Dublin Bus), provided that the time between each boarding does not exceed 90 minutes.

mrcheez

lxflyer wrote: »

Let's be honest if you're planning a multi-leg trip like that, you would generally check the journey planner app, or www.a-b.ie first, or if you don't you should!

It's not an unusual multi-trip journey to take one train and then a bus, nor does the journey planner app account for sudden delays, which you normally would only discover on arrival at the station

LXFlyer

mrcheez wrote: »

It's not an unusual multi-trip journey to take one train and then a bus, nor does the journey planner app account for sudden delays, which you normally would only discover on arrival at the station

Let's be honest, how often are the trains going to be delayed that much?


Normal practice is to develop these types of features based on normal situations - you don't plan for the 1% of times that something major goes wrong.

mrcheez

lxflyer wrote: »

Let's be honest, how often are the trains going to be delayed that much?

Wasn't there a major delay about 2 weeks ago?

Anyway it makes sense to check the status of the next service prior to tagging on, so that you can maximise your 90 minutes, only takes a few seconds.

LXFlyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Wasn't there a major delay about 2 weeks ago?

Anyway it makes sense to check the status of the next service prior to tagging on, so that you can maximise your 90 minutes, only takes a few seconds.

There may well have been, but they don't happen on a daily basis.

As I said, you design these on the basis of things working normally, not on the basis that things will go wrong.

It is always a good idea to check real time and journey planners before you travel regardless.

LXFlyer

bg07 wrote: »

My reading of this would suggested that the 90 minutes reset each time you board a service. eg if you first board a service at 9am, then board another at 10.20am and then board another at 11:40am, then the 2nd and 3rd journey are due the discount even though the 3rd journey is not within 90 minutes of the first journey.

Aard wrote: »

That's how I read it too. If that's the case you could conceivably get a bus into town, then get a 60c (free) city centre fare for one stop, then get the bus home with a €1 discount -- giving you up to three hours between starting the first leg and getting a bus home minus travelling/waiting time and the hassle of the city centre fare loophole. Realistically though that'd be at least two hours of town time, assuming the clock resets after every boarding.

Just to confirm that a new 90 minute period does indeed start every time you tag on.

I took three buses yesterday using the epurse, the second within 90 minutes of the first, and the third outside that window, but within 90 minutes of the second, each time asking for a €2.05 fare.

The discount applied to both the second and third journeys, so therefore it is correct to say that each time you tag on a new 90 minute period starts, which means you could conceivably receive the discounts for some time without reaching the cap.

The total came to €4.15, after the discounts were applied.

This is a big improvement, as for example, I saved myself a day off my rambler ticket (it costs €4.92 a day).

mrcheez

Wonder what happens if you tag on and tag off at the same station/LUAS stop repeatedly every 90 minutes to extend your discount window if you plan on sticking around town for a while

A lot of effort to save a euro I know...

markpb

mrcheez wrote: »

Wonder what happens if you tag on and tag off at the same station/LUAS stop repeatedly every 90 minutes to extend your discount window if you plan on sticking around town for a while

A lot of effort to save a euro I know...

You'll get charged a fortune. If you tag on and off at the same Luas station, you get charged for a one zone journey. The same isn't true of Dart but Luas is not gated which probably explains the difference.

foggy_lad

markpb wrote: »

You'll get charged a fortune. If you tag on and off at the same Luas station, you get charged for a one zone journey. The same isn't true of Dart but Luas is not gated which probably explains the difference.

But you could in theory anyway take a bus journey a few stops within the city centre area and not be charged at all but extend the time by a further 90 minutes?

This by the way has to be the best feature so far from the Leap card people. (yes people, believe it! I am being complimentary about public transport:D)

mrcheez

foggy_lad wrote: »

But you could in theory anyway take a bus journey a few stops within the city centre area and not be charged at all but extend the time by a further 90 minutes?

This by the way has to be the best feature so far from the Leap card people. (yes people, believe it! I am being complimentary about public transport:D)

You get free short hops on Dublin Bus??

Got a link handy? Cheers.

cdebru

mrcheez wrote: »

You get free short hops on Dublin Bus??

Got a link handy? Cheers.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares--tickets/city-centre/

There is a map there showing the city center area you can travel in for 60 cents but if it is within 90 minutes of another journey it is free, so presumably you could keep getting city center fares for free all day as long as you boarded within 90 minutes of your previous boarding and then save yourself a euro on the way home.

bg07

cdebru wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares--tickets/city-centre/

There is a map there showing the city center area you can travel in for 60 cents but if it is within 90 minutes of another journey it is free, so presumably you could keep getting city center fares for free all day as long as you boarded within 90 minutes of your previous boarding and then save yourself a euro on the way home.

My understanding is that if you use an city centre fare the maximum you can save is either the full 60c for the fare if it is second trip or a 60c discount from the second trip.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Just to confirm that a new 90 minute period does indeed start every time you tag on.

Is it possible some journeys will be cheaper by breaking them up now as a result? E.g. when changing trains at Connolly it might be cheaper to clock off and on again while waiting for a connection?

devnull

n97 mini wrote: »

Is it possible some journeys will be cheaper by breaking them up now as a result? E.g. when changing trains at Connolly it might be cheaper to clock off and on again while waiting for a connection?

No, it will be the same as it always was.

Leap 90 does not cover train to train for this very reason.