Will a rescue rehome puppies for farm work

ihatewinter

Would a rescue rehome Sheepdog or Border Collie pups to work on farm for cattle and sheep herding.

I'm thinking of getting a pup in the summer as both my working dogs are getting on, aged 9 and 14 and want to train a new pup before the older dog loses interest in work.

I always wanted to adopt from rescue as a lot of puppies are from working strains. Has anyone ever heard of this or are they too strict incase the pup cannot be trained and maybe abandoned again.

Zapperzy

Don't see why there would be a problem, a pet home could just as easily fall through and not work out as a working home. Rescues have a policy that the dog must be returned to them if it doesn't work out. The only thing I could see being an issue is presumably you live on a farm and this will be where the dog will be living? Most rescues insist on a secure fenced in environment so there's no risk of the dog straying or roaming. By nature farms generally are not 100% fenced in. We're not allowed discuss individual rescues here but how strict they stick to this rule varies. Most will do a homevisit to have a look at the setup, where the dog will sleep, etc.

This of course all applies to rescues. Pounds operate differently, you pay the release fee, buy a licence and bobs your uncle. But you don't get the back up of the rescue, vaccinations, neutering or microchipping included.

Tranceypoo

Yes they most definitely would! Everything Zapperzy said really, can't add anymore.

Lovely to see a border collie working sheep, there's only 1 around here that actually does that and she's brilliant to watch.

DBB

Yep, as long as the home was good and the dog going to be really well cared-for, there should not be an issue... great for a dog to get a chance to do what they're bred for! I suppose you'd potentially have a bit of a hurdle to convince a rescue that you're going to keep a working collie well, simply because they are one of the most neglected, abused breeds in the country.

Graces7

The pet farm at The Traditional farms at Muckross take pups in at 8 weeks (I know, too early but..) and socialises them well before they go on to their farm homes as working dogs. Those weeks will be the happiest of their lives as everyone pets and holds them. I am sure they vet the new homes carefully but as DBB says, life for a working dog can be hard here.

ihatewinter

Great thanks for the feedback, it will be something I will definitely be doing in the summer when I have the time.

Both dogs are indoors and have a fenced off area as well. Both of them don't ramble as they get enough stimulation

But surely if they do a visit, they will see my dogs and see they are well cared for.

aaakev

I was looking at a lovely young springer in a rescue a couple of years ago and was going to take it on as a family pet and for hunting. The rescue said no way would they re home a dog into an environment where they would be put to work! I think maybe they had no idea what a hunting dog does because their attitude was horrible! Working dogs are some of the happiest dogs iv seen!

muddypaws

aaakev wrote: »

I was looking at a lovely young springer in a rescue a couple of years ago and was going to take it on as a family pet and for hunting. The rescue said no way would they re home a dog into an environment where they would be put to work! I think maybe they had no idea what a hunting dog does because their attitude was horrible! Working dogs are some of the happiest dogs iv seen!

I think to be fair to the rescue, a hunting dog would be viewed differently to a working sheep dog. They could open themselves up for all sorts of trouble about a conflict of interest between the welfare of a dog, and the welfare of an animal being hunted.

sillysmiles

muddypaws wrote: »

They could open themselves up for all sorts of trouble about a conflict of interest between the welfare of a dog, and the welfare of an animal being hunted.

Really? That seems a bit daft to me. Hunting dogs, hunt. That's their natural instinct. It is work to them and what keeps them happiest and most engaged surely?

Tranceypoo

Most rescuesI know are anti-hunting so rehoming a dog that would be used for hunting would kind of be double standards, to be honest I would agree with that policy.

muddypaws

sillysmiles wrote: »

Really? That seems a bit daft to me. Hunting dogs, hunt. That's their natural instinct. It is work to them and what keeps them happiest and most engaged surely?

But you could use that instinct in other ways that don't involve killing another animal, there are a lot of activities that people can do with dogs that utilise their natural instinct safely. I eat meat, so it would be hypocritical to be against hunting per se, as long as the hunted animal is killed humanely and quickly for meat and not for the hunters' pleasure, but a rescue could lose a lot of supporters by putting a dog's welfare above that of a hare for example.

Now, having said that, I guess an argument could be made that feral cats are rehomed to farms and other places for the purpose of helping to keep the mouse and rat population down, which seems to be accepted, so why the difference with dogs?

DBB

I'll diverge from the others... As long as I know the dog would be kept as well as any pet dog I'd rehome, I'd have no issue with rehoming a gundog to a home where he'll be worked. Or a terrier to a home where he might just keep mice at bay.

cruizer101

muddypaws wrote: »

I think to be fair to the rescue, a hunting dog would be viewed differently to a working sheep dog. They could open themselves up for all sorts of trouble about a conflict of interest between the welfare of a dog, and the welfare of an animal being hunted.

I don't know hunting in depth but to be fair a springer is, to the best of my knowledge, used as a gundog for retrieving birds that are shot, possibly for driving them out from brush too, as opposed to directly hunting animals. I'd see no issue with this and it really is a bit ignorant of rescues as this is what these dogs are breed to do and are happiest doing. Fair enough for something like foxhounds maybe.

muddypaws

cruizer101 wrote: »

I don't know hunting in depth but to be fair a springer is, to the best of my knowledge, used as a gundog for retrieving birds that are shot, possibly for driving them out from brush too, as opposed to directly hunting animals. I'd see no issue with this and it really is a bit ignorant of rescues as this is what these dogs are breed to do and are happiest doing. Fair enough for something like foxhounds maybe.

I would agree with you, but not everybody would, and in the pc world in which we live, a rescue may have weighed up the pros and cons of finding a home for one dog, and losing the support of other possible homes and volunteers.

DBB

It is a balancing act. Some rescues might be based in the middle of some real black-spots in terms of certain breeds used for certain functions, or they could have got badly scorched by adopters abusing their trust, which happens pretty regularly.
So personally, I wouldn't judge a rescue for choosing not to pursue a certain type of home, particularly if they've had bad experiences.

Graces7

DBB wrote: »

It is a balancing act. Some rescues might be based in the middle of some real black-spots in terms of certain breeds used for certain functions, or they could have got badly scorched by adopters abusing their trust, which happens pretty regularly.
So personally, I wouldn't judge a rescue for choosing not to pursue a certain type of home, particularly if they've had bad experiences.

It is surely good that rescues take their responsibilities seriously.

aaakev

muddypaws wrote: »

But you could use that instinct in other ways that don't involve killing another animal, there are a lot of activities that people can do with dogs that utilise their natural instinct safely.

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Most rescuesI know are anti-hunting so rehoming a dog that would be used for hunting would kind of be double standards, to be honest I would agree with that policy.

gun dogs like springers dont actually kill anything

ShaShaBear

aaakev wrote: »

gun dogs like springers dont actually kill anything

No, but the person who owns the dog does.
I personally would not feel comfortable rehoming a dog to someone who kills animals for sport, because I'd find myself wondering if they can be that nonchalant about the life of one animal, what's to stop that reaching to the dog?
Now again, that's only my opinion. Surely you can see why someone running a rescue might feel a bit uncomfortable about it if they viewed things the way I did?

DBB

aaakev wrote: »

gun dogs like springers dont actually kill anything

I don't think that's the point the others are trying to make. I think it's because they're an integral element in the killing of other animals that's the problem for some people. I can understand that myself, though as I've said I wouldn't take issue with it as long as the dog is kept as a pet dog first and foremost.

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

I don't think that's the point the others are trying to make. I think it's because they're an integral element in the killing of other animals that's the problem for some people. I can understand that myself, though as I've said I wouldn't take issue with it as long as the dog is kept as a pet dog first and foremost.

Well I would agree with you, I'm sure there are ways of putting the dog to work without actually killing/shooting anything live. And I suppose if you were on good terms with the person applying to adopt and knew first-hand that the dog would be a pet first with a hobby working second then it would be different. But it's really just like everything else - if the volunteer doesn't know you, you can't really expect them to take your word for it!

(My mother regularly argues that rescues won't give her a dog or cat for free because she insists she'd look after it. She thinks animal rescue volunteers have a 6th sense for people telling the truth )

DBB

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I'd find myself wondering if they can be that nonchalant about the life of one animal, what's to stop that reaching to the dog?

With all due respect, I do think that's a bit of a stretch!
I also think it's not as valid an argument for any meat-eater to make (not sure whether you're veggie or not SSB, but this isn't aimed at you, it's intended as a general point), and indeed it could be argued that if you want to only eat the meat of animals that have had a good life, as I do, pheasants and game birds generally don't have it too shabby.

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

With all due respect, I do think that's a bit of a stretch!
I also think it's not as valid an argument for any meat-eater to make (not sure whether you're veggie or not SSB, but this isn't aimed at you, it's intended as a general point), and indeed it could be argued that if you want to only eat the meat of animals that have had a good life, as I do, pheasants and game birds generally don't have it too shabby.

Oh it is a huge stretch, I probably phrased that wrong - I literally mean find myself wondering - not that I obsess over it actively. I'm trying to get across the point that it is a possible train of thought and that it is reasonable enough to assume that if a stranger comes to you looking for a hunting dog with the intent to kill animals and you don't know them from Adam, then it is not unreasonable to assume that they might not care for the dog as a pet foremost. Obviously if you have done the work vetting the owners (which some rescues in my area do not) then it's a different kettle of fish.

As it happens, I am vegetarian, but I like to keep that quiet :P

DBB

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Well I would agree with you, I'm sure there are ways of putting the dog to work without actually killing/shooting anything live.

But that's not the point... The point is, if I had a springer/setter/pointer available for adoption, and a lad who hunts wanted to adopt it and could give it a great home, I would have no issue with it, in the full knowledge the dog will be involved in the bird-killing process.
Just as when I rehome a terrier, if he kills rats and mice, so be it.

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

But that's not the point... The point is, if I had a springer/setter/pointer available for adoption, and a lad who hunts wanted to adopt it and could give it a great home, I would have no issue with it, in the full knowledge the dog will be involved in the bird-killing process.
Just as when I rehome a terrier, if he kills rats and mice, so be it.

No I agree with you there. I mean there are ways not to kill animals, but still if you know without a doubt that the dog is going to a good pet-orientated home then it shouldn't be an issue, whereas if you had no clue about them and the way they treat animals, the fact that they want them for work and not just as a pet would make you wary. Obviously I'm not referring to all rescues here, just a few I've dealt with that wouldn't always have the resources for proper home checks etc.

In essence I mean I can understand completely why a volunteer would refuse a stranger a hunting animal off the bat, but that I also agree that they are probably people who feel strongly about hunting or that don't trust the person to look after the dog as a family addition.

sillysmiles

I think it needs to be recognised that just because it is not the home you (not directed at anyone) would give a dog, doesn't make it an unsuitable home. I get that rescues need to look after their PR but it is a pity that their supporters can't see that one size doesn't fit all.
If a dog is well looked after and well treated and cared and engaged and active then is it better (imo) than waiting in a rescue indefinitely.
Also - if rescues rehomed to people who hunt, would it not remove some of the requirement for dogs to be breed to hunt? (Genuine question)

Dubl07

Anyone who eats meat or keeps a carnivore (obligate or not) should recognise that skilled hunting and the resultant death of an animal in the wild is one of the kindest ways to source meat for food.

I'm anti fox hunting, hare coursing and big game hunting for sport but deer, rabbit, quail, fish etc are all fair game, particularly where natural predators have been removed and populations need culling to keep them healthy. I don't enjoy plucking or gutting any creature but I feel a responsibility to respect my meat-producing animals by knowing how to do it and in such a way as to respectfully acknowledge their contribution to the food chain.

IMO dogs bred to assist with specific tasks should be allowed to be adopted by responsible people who will use them as intended provided they will be well-treated.

Frog Song

A lot of rescues require you to have an enclosed garden so rehoming to a farm might be out for some of them. You'd have to contact them individually I'd imagine.

Great thing to do, best of luck OP.

Dubl07

OP, since your name is Ihatewinter, this might resonate with you.

Emergency: Snowdog working - Jon Katz

ihatewinter

Thanks for that Dubl07, nice little read. All dogs with a strong working instinct go demented if they are not given enough to do. That's why a lot of collie/sheepdogs end up in pounds as people do not realise the exercise and mental stimulation that they need.

A lot of sheepdogs and border collies are probably only a few generations removed from working stock and still have that desire and trait of work.

ShaShaBear

ihatewinter wrote: »

Thanks for that Dubl07, nice little read. All dogs with a strong working instinct go demented if they are not given enough to do. That's why a lot of collie/sheepdogs end up in pounds as people do not realise the exercise and mental stimulation that they need.

A lot of sheepdogs and border collies are probably only a few generations removed from working stock and still have that desire and trait of work.

Our last boy was directly from working stock. Him and his sister were both "got rid of" as Shadow was the runt and the other bitch was blind. That was back before I knew what I know now about dogs (I was only 16 at the time, 11 years ago ) and he definitely suffered from not having "work" to do. Luckily, in my early adult years, I figured out how to properly stimulate him, but he had permanent behavioural problems as a result of this delay to burn his brains so to speak
Our new collie, total accidental adoption and FAR from the breed I had intended, is much better off stimulation-wise, as I know what to expect and more or less how to correct. But I don't think they should ever be kept as a pet without a seriously experienced owner who either does work or agility for them, hence I think you would be perfect!