Irish at 3rd level

Deranged96

Hello lads,

I'm a 6th year student and am thinking of studying Irish as part of my college course. I'd like to study Irish to full fill cultural aspirations but I want to know do people who study Irish EVER obtain the natural fluency of people raised with it? It seems to me that most Irish teachers anyway don't even have a proper way with the language. I say that because I know someone from a Gaeltacht and when he speaks its like a totally different language...

So yeah, I'm not the best at Irish and just wondering If it'd be worth my while. I want to study law and there is a law and Irish option but I don't want to come out of it sounding like a foreigner in the country's native language.

Thanks

pandoraj09

Its very insulting to make a comment that most Irish teachers don't have a way with the language!!! Have you spoken to/interviewed "most Irish teachers"??? For the record, I'm from Dublin, no Gaeltacht connections. I have a first class hons degree in Irish, got a distinction in spoken language in my final exam and am 100% fluent in Irish and can say anything I want in the language. Friends of mine from gaeltacht areas often consult me re Grammar issues if they are writing a paper in Irish. I correct the LC Higher level paper and most of my friends there are not Gaeltacht people but, like me, fluent and 100% competent in the language.

Deranged96

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Its very insulting to make a comment that most Irish teachers don't have a way with the language!!! Have you spoken to/interviewed "most Irish teachers"??? For the record, I'm from Dublin, no Gaeltacht connections. I have a first class hons degree in Irish, got a distinction in spoken language in my final exam and am 100% fluent in Irish and can say anything I want in the language. Friends of mine from gaeltacht areas often consult me re Grammar issues if they are writing a paper in Irish. I correct the LC Higher level paper and most of my friends there are not Gaeltacht people but, like me, fluent and 100% competent in the language.

OK sorry, what I should have said was "On listening to the three Irish teachers I've had"

pandoraj09

Thanks for that...I've taught the language for 28 years....some teachers are not totally on top of it but a lot of us are....

dubhthach

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Its very insulting to make a comment that most Irish teachers don't have a way with the language!!! Have you spoken to/interviewed "most Irish teachers"??? For the record, I'm from Dublin, no Gaeltacht connections. I have a first class hons degree in Irish, got a distinction in spoken language in my final exam and am 100% fluent in Irish and can say anything I want in the language. Friends of mine from gaeltacht areas often consult me re Grammar issues if they are writing a paper in Irish. I correct the LC Higher level paper and most of my friends there are not Gaeltacht people but, like me, fluent and 100% competent in the language.

Jaysuz, so many words let no opinion on the OP's actual question. :rolleyes:

Deranged96

dubhthach wrote: »

Jaysuz, so many words let no opinion on the OP's actual question. :rolleyes:

Pot and Kettle :P

C'mon, you give me an answer so Mr. Moderator Sir

dubhthach

Deranged96 wrote: »

Pot and Kettle :P

C'mon, you give me an answer so Mr. Moderator Sir

(a) not a moderator here

(b) didn't do Irish in third level -- so couldn't tell you otherwise.

As for sounding like a native speaker in any language, well it really depends on level of work you are willing to commit. I've heard interviews on RnaG with university postdocs from the US who sound like they are from Conamara, like anything in life if you want to excel you need to put in the effort.

AnLonDubh

Deranged96 wrote: »

I'm a 6th year student and am thinking of studying Irish as part of my college course. I'd like to study Irish to full fill cultural aspirations but I want to know do people who study Irish EVER obtain the natural fluency of people raised with it?

Yes they can, it is quite difficult but possible. This really applies to any language, not just Irish. Although you have to be systematic and methodical about it, i.e. learning the phonology scientifically, you won't just do it on natural ability no matter how great your natural faculty for languages.

It seems to me that most Irish teachers anyway don't even have a proper way with the language. I say that because I know someone from a Gaeltacht and when he speaks its like a totally different language...

In general, from my experience of meeting hundreds of teachers and having spent at least two months in each Gaeltacht separately, I would say that the average teacher's command of the language does not approach that of a Gaeltacht native. The "sounding like a totally different language" part is really that teachers, like most learners, will use English phonology.

I'm not great myself or anything, but it really is related to how much effort you put in and not really qualifications e.t.c. I know a Swedish guy whose Irish sounds completely native (Corca Dhuibhne Irish, specifically the Dún Chaoin area's dialect.)

There are a couple of things that confuse this. Younger speakers (~< 30) in the Gaeltacht* today do have much worse Irish than the generation before them, so many learners can "match" their level, but still not be near older speakers.

*See for example "An Chonair Chaoch" edited by Ciarán Lenoach, Conchúr Ó Giollagáin and Brian Ó Curnáin. It is a very interesting book detailing Irish across generations in each Gaeltacht and has a chart of when each grammatical feature roughly "died" in the major dialects, although it focuses on Conamara and Corca Dhuibhne. It's quite a large study, so this is not "one" sample or anything, but a statistically significant cross-section of the Gaeltacht population. In younger speakers correct gender and use of relative clauses (atá vs a bhfuil) is quite weak.

Although don't take it as doom and gloom, a major point in the study is that this really comes about from kids in the Gaeltacht being satisfied with having better Irish than those in the Galltacht and not really reading e.t.c., where as for example it would be silly for somebody from Ireland to be proud of having better English than a Frenchman.