Penalty points and Insurance

Irishder

So my renewal just came in the door. Last year iIpaid 280 Euro this years quote is 433. I rang them up and questioned it and the reason for the increase is I got 4 penalty points throughout the year.

I have a 2006 2 litre avensis, full no claims bonus and I am 38 years old. I have a fully comp policy with step back protection. I know I got a good deal last year but I think its a bit steep this year. Do penalty points really add that much to the policy. Do insurance companies have access to the penalty points database, I never informed them that I got penalty points.

slimjimmc

Yes, the law allows insurers to have access to your driving record and 4 points are likely to cause an significant increase but apparently there's been a general increase too that plenty of posters are reporting. The two combined could have led to your quote. Treat the quote as an opening bid though and start haggling.

Liam McPoyle

€280 is absolute buttons for that level of cover and the car and to be honest, its a joke of a price, thats Setanta levels of pricing and they went broke.

To put it into perspective, my Mam drives a 2013 2l Avensis, fully comp, full bonus protection, she has a full bonus for 10+ years and nil penalty points. Incl open drive she was quoted €750 for renewal.

For her and the oul boy only it was averaging between €500 & €550.

I work in insurance and have a few contacts so I was able to get them a price of €463 on a like for like basis (no open drive though). That took me a couple of hours work and a few calls.

You are going to get it very hard to beat your renewal price.

I did a quote on 123 for my folks and the best was €700 like for like, Axa over €600 a few others around the same.

I have to try Aviva but tbh, Im not holding my breath.

Insurance premiums are hardening, and rightly so.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Business Cat this one's for you.. Just off the topof your head, do you know which companies ask if you've had any accidents or claims in the last 4/5 years, as opposed to asking if you've ever had any?

bazz26

Insurance is going up across the board. The fact that you now have penalty points also has increased the premium further. And yes insurance companies have access to a database that can check against your license number, either way not disclosing this to them at time of taking out or renewing the policy in any case would not be a wise move.

As with anything always shop around, some insurance companies may not put as much a loading on a certain number of points as others do.

Liam McPoyle

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

Business Cat this one's for you.. Just off the topof your head, do you know which companies ask if you've had any accidents or claims in the last 4/5 years, as opposed to asking if you've ever had any?

Pretty much all of them that Ive dealt with.

The question basically is "have you had any accidents or claims in the last 5 years"

If you had 20 accidents or claims outside of the last 5 years you do not have to declare them, once they are fully settled.

They only ask for information on criminal/motoring convictions on an ever basis.

Irishder

Thanks for the replies, i just put my details into 123.ie and got a quote of 630!! The increase seems very big but as you all say the penalty points are obviously effecting it

Done nct today 56 euro

700 in tax this week as well,

Anyone want to buy an avensis

9935452

Irishder wrote: »

So my renewal just came in the door. Last year iIpaid 280 Euro this years quote is 433. I rang them up and questioned it and the reason for the increase is I got 4 penalty points throughout the year.

I have a 2006 2 litre avensis, full no claims bonus and I am 38 years old. I have a fully comp policy with step back protection. I know I got a good deal last year but I think its a bit steep this year. Do penalty points really add that much to the policy. Do insurance companies have access to the penalty points database, I never informed them that I got penalty points.

Would you have told them that you had the penalty points if they didnt find out on their own.
280 was savage cheap. 430 is still very good value for the level of cover. You wont have much bargaining power if you cant find cheaper quotes

bazz26 wrote: »

Insurance is going up across the board. The fact that you now have penalty points also has increased the premium further. And yes insurance companies have access to a database that can check against your license number, either way not disclosing this to them at time of taking out or renewing the policy in any case would not be a wise move.

As with anything always shop around, some insurance companies may not put as much a loading on a certain number of points as others do.

Im with FBD and they never asked for a copy of my license . i asked them why. I was told it was full disclosure, if i was hiding anything / lying to them, i wouldnt be insured

blade1

bazz26 wrote: »

Insurance is going up across the board. The fact that you now have penalty points also has increased the premium further. And yes insurance companies have access to a database that can check against your license number, either way not disclosing this to them at time of taking out or renewing the policy in any case would not be a wise move.

As with anything always shop around, some insurance companies may not put as much a loading on a certain number of points as others do.

So will insurance companies give back money to the people whose points expire mid term?

Nino Brown

blade1 wrote: »

So will insurance companies give back money to the people whose points expire mid term?

Why would they?, they don't increase it mid term if you get points.

blade1

Nino Brown wrote: »

Why would they?, they don't increase it mid term if you get points.

Have you rang them mid term and told them you have gotten points?

9935452

blade1 wrote: »

So will insurance companies give back money to the people whose points expire mid term?

they could argue the point that if you got them say 6 months into a year , you should have told them and they would up your premium for the rest of the year. but nobody does so they wouldnt give money back when they expire.
plus they would probably charge an administration fee which would cost more than the refund,
I would also assume that they would tell you that they dont charge more for having penalty points and your premium just went up

_Brian

Spend some time online.
I got insurance for herself on 2010 140BHP Mondeo, fully comp, step back, glass, breakdown, home start, me as name driver.
€360.

No mention of penalty points although we both have two.

Nino Brown

blade1 wrote: »

Have you rang them mid term and told them you have gotten points?

No I haven't, I've only ever got two points and that was just before a renewal about 8 years ago, but it didn't affect the renewal.
I'm sure my policy probably says I have to notify them immediately, but I've never heard of anybody doing it, I assumed they'd just increase the excess slightly in the event of an accident.

Nino Brown

_Brian wrote: »

Spend some time online.
I got insurance for herself on 2010 140BHP Mondeo, fully comp, step back, glass, breakdown, home start, me as name driver.
€360.

No mention of penalty points although we both have two.

Not even under the quote "Assumptions"?

boardsuser1

Business Cat wrote: »

Pretty much all of them that Ive dealt with.

The question basically is "have you had any accidents or claims in the last 5 years"

If you had 20 accidents or claims outside of the last 5 years you do not have to declare them, once they are fully settled.

They only ask for information on criminal/motoring convictions on an ever basis.

Why do they ask for non motoring convictions?? When i first started driving they only asked for motoring convictions, why would something not driving related influence the price of a policy

_Brian

Nino Brown wrote: »

Not even under the quote "Assumptions"?

Not that I saw, I'll look again though.

blade1

Nino Brown wrote: »

No I haven't, I've only ever got two points and that was just before a renewal about 8 years ago, but it didn't affect the renewal.
I'm sure my policy probably says I have to notify them immediately, but I've never heard of anybody doing it, I assumed they'd just increase the excess slightly in the vent of an accident.

What would happen if you were in an accident after getting points mid term and not informing them?

Incidentally, I was insuring a bike last summer and rang up and give the details of the bike which was a 07.
They emailed the documents to me and I noticed the reg said 01.

I called them and they changed it.
Couple of weeks later I receive a bill for €95.
60 because bike is 07 instead of 01 and 35 admin fees.

Called them up and told them I'm not paying anything as I only agreed to the original price.
Yer man said grand.
Month later received another letter from some other crowd demanding payment.

Henry Ford III

_Brian wrote: »

Spend some time online.
I got insurance for herself on 2010 140BHP Mondeo, fully comp, step back, glass, breakdown, home start, me as name driver.
€360.

No mention of penalty points although we both have two.

It's your job to mention them - utmost good faith and all that.

boardsuser1

blade1 wrote: »

What would happen if you were in an accident after getting points mid term and not informing them?

Incidentally, I was insuring a bike last summer and rang up and give the details of the bike which was a 07.
They emailed the documents to me and I noticed the reg said 01.

I called them and they changed it.
Couple of weeks later I receive a bill for €95.
60 because bike is 07 instead of 01 and 35 admin fees.

Called them up and told them I'm not paying anything as I only agreed to the original price.
Yer man said grand.
Month later received another letter from some other crowd demanding payment.

Did you pay???I'd tell them to politely fcuk off

_Brian

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's your job to mention them - utmost good faith and all that.

I appreciate this idea of a contract of utmost good faith. The notion being I am to bring to their attention ANYTHING I feel is relevant.
Thinking about it I don't think my points are relevant as they were got through a fish in a barrel meanly positioned speed van.

blade1

KC161 wrote: »

Did you pay???I'd tell them to politely fcuk off

No, I didn't pay and there was no politely about it!:pac:

Henry Ford III

_Brian wrote: »

I appreciate this idea of a contract of utmost good faith. The notion being I am to bring to their attention ANYTHING I feel is relevant.
Thinking about it I don't think my points are relevant as they were got through a fish in a barrel meanly positioned speed van.

Failure to disclose material facts (such as penalty points irrespective of how you got them) has the potential to make your policy void.

Liam McPoyle

KC161 wrote: »

Why do they ask for non motoring convictions?? When i first started driving they only asked for motoring convictions, why would something not driving related influence the price of a policy

If someone has non motoring convictions the presumption is that it presents whats known as a moral hazard.

Eg, if you had a murderer, rapist, pedo etc on your books, they arent the type of person any company wants to be associated with.

Empirical data also evidences that people with non motoring convictions are more likely to have claims, now maybe they are just unlucky, but when people with criminal convictions are claiming more than people without, well, speaks for itself, does'nt it.

Of course thats not the case in alot of instances, for example, someone that got a public order offence as a young fella but has never been in trouble with the law since does not present a moral hazard, the folly of youth and all that.

With discrimination cases rife in this country insurers cannot get into it with people re convictions so its easier for them to decline anyone with a non motoring conviction rather than declining people with certain types of convictions.

boardsuser1

Business Cat wrote: »

If someone has non motoring convictions the presumption is that it presents whats known as a moral hazard.

Eg, if you had a murderer, rapist, pedo etc on your books, they arent the type of person any company wants to be associated with.

Empirical data also evidences that people with non motoring convictions are more likely to have claims, now maybe they are just unlucky, but when people with criminal convictions are claiming more than people without, well, speaks for itself, does'nt it.

Of course thats not the case in alot of instances, for example, someone that got a public order offence as a young fella but has never been in trouble with the law since does not present a moral hazard, the folly of youth and all that.

With discrimination cases rife in this country insurers cannot get into it with people re convictions so its easier for them to decline anyone with a non motoring conviction rather than declining people with certain types of convictions.

So someone with non motoring convictions only could be charged a premium equal to or greater than an individual with motoring convictions only???

Thanks for your clear and concise answers, but judging by the daily tabloids half the country probably wouldn't get motor insurance on that basis

To Elland Back

KC161 wrote: »

Why do they ask for non motoring convictions?? When i first started driving they only asked for motoring convictions, why would something not driving related influence the price of a policy

Because arson, theft, fraud, handling stolen goods and a whole raft of other categories would influence them on the moral hazard of a proposer

boardsuser1

To Elland Back wrote: »

Because arson, theft, fraud, handling stolen goods and a whole raft of other categories would influence them on the moral hazard of a proposer

Refer to my reply to business cat

Liam McPoyle

KC161 wrote: »

So someone with non motoring convictions only could be charged a premium equal to or greater than an individual with motoring convictions only???

Thanks for your clear and concise answers, but judging by the daily tabloids half the country probably wouldn't get motor insurance on that basis

Of course.

What I was saying is that a lot insurers will decline to quote someone with non motoring convictions.

9935452

blade1 wrote: »

What would happen if you were in an accident after getting points mid term and not informing them?

Incidentally, I was insuring a bike last summer and rang up and give the details of the bike which was a 07.
They emailed the documents to me and I noticed the reg said 01.

I called them and they changed it.
Couple of weeks later I receive a bill for €95.
60 because bike is 07 instead of 01 and 35 admin fees.

Called them up and told them I'm not paying anything as I only agreed to the original price.
Yer man said grand.
Month later received another letter from some other crowd demanding payment.

Did you get the documents updated??with the correct registration.
If not your bike isnt insured.
I wouldnt pay eithre. All calls to the broker or insurance companys are recorded for training purposes and other reasons.
They could easily check this recording

blade1

9935452 wrote: »

Did you get the documents updated??with the correct registration.
If not your bike isnt insured.
I wouldnt pay eithre. All calls to the broker or insurance companys are recorded for training purposes and other reasons.
They could easily check this recording

Yes they updated the reg.
On the incorrect document they had 2007 zzr1400 and below it they had 01CXXXX

Thing is a ZZR1400 didn't even exist in 2001.
Must have been a typo on their part.

9935452

_Brian wrote: »

I appreciate this idea of a contract of utmost good faith. The notion being I am to bring to their attention ANYTHING I feel is relevant.
Thinking about it I don't think my points are relevant as they were got through a fish in a barrel meanly positioned speed van.

i think full disclosure is the term. id be fairly confident it was in a section somewhere or in small print somewhere. Anytime i got a quote eithre online or on the phone , they have always asked about penalty points.
You might find out how relevant they are if you go to make a claim.


Isnt that how speeding vans work. Park where you cant see them a lot of the time where the limit drops to a 60kmph but that's life.
A friend was caught speeding by a van twice in the space of a month in the same spot. now has 6 penalty points for it and he has fairly slowed down now

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Failure to disclose material facts (such as penalty points irrespective of how you got them) has the potential to make your policy void.

Yes it doesnt matter how he got them, penalty points are penalty points.
They only want a reason not to pay out

9935452

blade1 wrote: »

Yes they updated the reg.
On the incorrect document they had 2007 zzr1400 and below it they had 01CXXXX

Thing is a ZZR1400 didn't even exist in 2001.
Must have been a typo on their part.

Excellent for you. Tell them you aint paying , they made the mistake
I t doesnt matter if they didnt exist them , its the number on the insurance cert that matters. Sure they check the number on the system and it tells them what it is .
Most likely a typo, someone probably took down the info on paper , 7 looked like a 1 and copyed it down wrong.

blade1

9935452 wrote: »

Excellent for you. Tell them you aint paying , they made the mistake
I t doesnt matter if they didnt exist them , its the number on the insurance cert that matters. Sure they check the number on the system and it tells them what it is .
Most likely a typo, someone probably took down the info on paper , 7 looked like a 1 and copyed it down wrong.

It just makes me wonder.
Going by the extra they tried to charge me, a 2007 ZZR1400 is €60 euro more than a 2001.
How did they come up with the cheaper price for a bike that didn't exist in 2001.
Surely it would show up on their computer, or in this case, not show up.
The first zzr1400 was in 2006.

9935452

blade1 wrote: »

It just makes me wonder.
Going by the extra they tried to charge me, a 2007 ZZR1400 is €60 euro more than a 2001.
How did they come up with the cheaper price for a bike that didn't exist in 2001.
Surely it would show up on their computer, or in this case, not show up.
The first zzr1400 was in 2006.

They probably quoted for a 07 , then put it down as a 01 by mistake. When you highlighted the mistake , to cover their blushes they upped the policy by say 10%

boardsuser1

9935452 wrote: »

They probably quoted for a 07 , then put it down as a 01 by mistake. When you highlighted the mistake , to cover their blushes they upped the policy by say 10%

Had a similar experience with quinn direct one time,they jacked it up by €300,even though it was their mistake I had to pay for it,great country we live in