Typical House / Apartment for First Time Buyers

Indestructable

Hi,
I was wondering what the usual dwelling first time buyers go for? What was your first house that you bought?

My GF and I were looking at 2 bed apartments in North County Dublin/North Dublin City for around the 150k mark, some lovely examples to be found there at that price. We plan on having it for 7-10 years then moving to something different. Might sell it or rent it after that!

What are your stories?

Thanks!

handlemaster

buy a house if you can.when you think you cant ,rethink , how you can buy a house then only after long deliberation buy an apt.

Bob24

handlemaster wrote: »

buy a house if you can.when you think you cant ,rethink , how you can buy a house then only after long deliberation buy an apt.

Is that the recipe for people to get into unsustainable debt and cause a property bubble/crash? ;-)

Just kidding ... but different people want and can afford different types of properties.

handlemaster

Thé y will spend more in the long run. Few years baby etc

desertcircus

After the last few years, I'd be loath to buy a house I couldn't imagine retiring in. Things may happen that prevent you from moving to a bigger or better place, and if you buy on the assumption that you'll move a few years down the line, you could end up stuck.

Indestructable

OP here, I could go ahead and buy a house that is around the 200k mark but these houses are generally not nearly as nice as the apartments I have been looking at with them being terraced etc. We are a couple and kids won't ever come into the equation. Is there really that many benefits owning a 2 bed house over a 2 bed apartment? It does have to be near the city for work.

athtrasna

Indestructable wrote: »

OP here, I could go ahead and buy a house that is around the 200k mark but these houses are generally not nearly as nice as the apartments I have been looking at with them being terraced etc. We are a couple and kids won't ever come into the equation. Is there really that many benefits owning a 2 bed house over a 2 bed apartment? It does have to be near the city for work.

Being master of your own destiny has no price. An apartment brings management company, management fees, high density, development rules, not owning the roof above your head, no freedom to alter the appearance of the unit. Being at the mercy of your neighbours to pay their fees and maintain basic services is a stress people can't imagine. If I could turn back time I'd never have bought an apartment

Chris_5339762

An apartment is doing me fine... I live solo in a 2 bed apt. Much better than renting, in my situation as I bought four years ago at a time when prices were low. Management Company is run by the developers who own all but a handful of units so are well in charge and are properly solvent. It suits me and the situation has worked for me nicely. But in time I will want to buy a house, no doubt about that. Noisy neighbours can be the bane of your life in an apartment. Do whatever suits you guys though, but go for a house if you can.

Indestructable

athtrasna wrote: »

Being master of your own destiny has no price. An apartment brings management company, management fees, high density, development rules, not owning the roof above your head, no freedom to alter the appearance of the unit. Being at the mercy of your neighbours to pay their fees and maintain basic services is a stress people can't imagine. If I could turn back time I'd never have bought an apartment

Thank you, very valid points. Still at an extremely early stage here and want to get as much info and such as possible before making the decisions. I want to be as informed as possible on every eventuality so as not make any mistakes. Too much of that has happened in the past. Would it be fair to say that a lot of the neighbour and management issued could be avoided by buying in a decent complex and doing as much research as possible.

That being said the first house I buy I don't envisage living in all my life. A terraced house which is what we can afford atm would have similar problems re neighbours and would never be worth expanding and renovating as I can't see living there all my life either. I can see a modern apartment being a greater asset in terms of renting out 10 years down the line, could be wrong there tho too!

Indestructable

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

An apartment is doing me fine... I live solo in a 2 bed apt. Much better than renting, in my situation as I bought four years ago at a time when prices were low. Management Company is run by the developers who own all but a handful of units so are well in charge and are properly solvent. It suits me and the situation has worked for me nicely. But in time I will want to buy a house, no doubt about that. Noisy neighbours can be the bane of your life in an apartment. Do whatever suits you guys though, but go for a house if you can.

I agree, I think renting in Dublin has gone mad lately and not getting any better, for a decent 2 bed the rent will be near the 1100 euro mark. Buying could mean mortgage repayments of 1000 over 15 years, not too bad and then it will be an asset that I own. I don't want this thread to descend in rent v buy tho, that has been done to death lately.

I really do appreciate all feedback as I do think some real examples can help people make better decisions, and this is a massive one for us!

Chris_5339762

For a decent 2 bed you're looking at about 1300 for rent. Mortgage obviously would depend on length you choose... there is merit to taking a 30-35 year mortgage so long as you can be very good with yourself about overpaying with the aim of getting it paid off many, many years earlier.

But if you do buy, thoroughly investigate the management company for solvency, sinking fund, etc. Request a viewing in the evening so you can see how soundproof the apartment is (most aren't good). See if you can knock on a few doors to see what people think of the place.

A lot of people on here may say that it is a bad idea to buy an apartment, but it has worked out really well for me thus far (provided I can eventually sell it). It can work, provided of course you know what you're getting into.

The_Conductor

First of all- if you're buying somewhere with the intention of selling it in 10 years time and moving somewhere else- don't. As-in, don't buy. 10 years- is not a long time- and if you're planning to this timescale- any sort of a bump- in the economy, your relationship- whatever- can really screw up your plans. If you are thinking relatively short-term- don't buy- rent, get a bigger deposit together, live life. And when you've solidified your plans further- then revisit the situation.

Secondly- I 'get' what you're saying about location being paramount. I would state though- if you can afford it at all- to try to get a 3 bed, rather than a 2 bed- even if it is an apartment. Having an extra room- even if you have no intention to use it as a bedroom now- leaves you with options for the future (ignoring the fact that you say you don't want kids- how about seeing your career develop over the years and kicking yourself because you don't have the capacity to have a small home office each- surely this is something you should plan for?)

Thirdly- some people see apartments, and immediately management charges and unreasonable neighbours pop up like a light in their minds. A management company, if properly run- probably supplies you with services you'd not be able to organise or afford as a private individual. More often than not- your management fees will pay for various security features, possibly cameras, secure parking, buildings insurance, grounds maintenance etc etc. Sure- its a grand or two every year- but even in small developments without the economies of scale associated with larger developments- having a management company who are competent and get things done in a reasonable manner- is not something that anyone should look down on.

Forth- allied to third- owning a property outright- exposes you to a hell of a lot of on-going maintenance- that you may or may not, like to do. Having an apartment will still allow DIY- possibly not of the masonry variety- but you don't have to go around knocking block walls to prove your masculinity.

Fifth- as you've said yourself- location is paramount for you. Alongside the actual availability (or lack thereof) of property in particular areas- you have to look at the areas themselves. Every city has good and bad areas. If your perfect house is in the middle of a bad area- and you're in fear of your life or being mugged on a daily basis- even a beautiful property can be a millstone around your neck.

Buying a property- is a series of compromises- you have to see what best suits you- and what is available that ticks most of the boxes- what are definite deal breakers- and what are nice things that you'd like, but that you'd be willing to overlook in favour of other attributes. Before you even start looking anywhere- at anything- sit down with your partner- and agree together what your list of deal breakers are. They can be whatever you like- for me it would be the lack of fibre to the door- I've been using computers since the late 70s- and have had broadband by numerous methods, for over 2 decades- I couldn't live without a decent connection. What are your list of dealbreakers? Agree them. Set them in stone. Abide by them. Don't try and reason your partner out of one of his or hers- when you find a 'suitable' property. Its on the dealbreaker list. You both agreed it. If its on the list- the property is not to be on your list, period. Don't try to reason or argue for a particular property- move on, you'll only have it thrown back at you in an argument 5 years down the road- its not worth it.

One thing I would emphasise again- if you can afford a 3 bed- instead of a 2- get it. Even if its to be an office- do it. Aside from anything else- when it comes to sell the property in 10-15-20 years time- your 3 bed will be a million times more valuable to a future potential purchaser- than a 2 bed, irrespective of how well appointed the 2 bed may be.

Happy house hunting!

ted1

Indestructable wrote: »

Hi,
I was wondering what the usual dwelling first time buyers go for? What was your first house that you bought?

My GF and I were looking at 2 bed apartments in North County Dublin/North Dublin City for around the 150k mark, some lovely examples to be found there at that price. We plan on having it for 7-10 years then moving to something different. Might sell it or rent it after that!

What are your stories?

Thanks!

Do you plan to have kids ? Could you live in a 2 bed apartment with a kid/kids is there enough living space for yourselves and all the equipment and toys that go with newborns/ toddlers/ kids

MouseTail

First property I bought was a 1 bed apartment in inner city. Couldn't have afforded, nor had any desire for a family home in the burbs at that stage in my life. I used the much maligned property ladder to upgrade to just such a house when needs dictated, and downsized again later. It worked for me, I always had housing that suited my needs.

The_Conductor

MouseTail wrote: »

First property I bought was a 1 bed apartment in inner city. Couldn't have afforded, nor had any desire for a family home in the burbs at that stage in my life. I used the much maligned property ladder to upgrade to just such a house when needs dictated, and downsized again later. It worked for me, I always had housing that suited my needs.

You got lucky.
Times, and the availability of credit- have changed.
What you would have had no problem achieving 15 years ago- is now a pipe dream for many people.

MouseTail

The_Conductor wrote: »

You got lucky.
Times, and the availability of credit- have changed.
What you would have had no problem achieving 15 years ago- is now a pipe dream for many people.

Availabilty of credit hasn't changed, bar a blip during the bubble, it was impossible to get a mortgage for more than 3 times earnings 15 years ago.

RecordStraight

Indestructable wrote: »

I can see a modern apartment being a greater asset in terms of renting out 10 years down the line, could be wrong there tho too!

Renting out a property sounds great, but bear in mind that the income will be taxed at your marginal rate, so you'll probably be paying half of your 1k rental income to the government.

jelem

buy house - remember apartments mostly have yearly FEEs which in most cases are not regulated- one of my own children had their
own sight of politics and attempted takeover of bank accounts by unauthorized persons involving themselves in "management committees" of their units -
HOLD out for house you will be better of in long run

Mrs OBumble

jelem wrote: »

buy house - remember apartments mostly have yearly FEEs which in most cases are not regulated- one of my own children had their
own sight of politics and attempted takeover of bank accounts by unauthorized persons involving themselves in "management committees" of their units -
HOLD out for house you will be better of in long run

Estates full of stand-alone houses can have management companies too. Usually their fees are less than places with apartment blocks, but only because they provide less services (as per The Conductor's post above - which is actually one of the most useful posts I think I've ever seen on boards).

The only thing I'll add is that there are some people in this country who have a snooty attitude towards apartment dwellers. I think it's nuts: a properly sound-insulated apartment is safer and nicer to live in, IMHO. But it's out there. If this doesn't afflict your family, then go for it - unless you have a job (aspiring manager or somesuch who needs to impress) where appearance of your home is important.

Indestructable

The_Conductor wrote: »

First of all- if you're buying somewhere with the intention of selling it in 10 years time and moving somewhere else- don't. As-in, don't buy. 10 years- is not a long time- and if you're planning to this timescale- any sort of a bump- in the economy, your relationship- whatever- can really screw up your plans. If you are thinking relatively short-term- don't buy- rent, get a bigger deposit together, live life. And when you've solidified your plans further- then revisit the situation.

Secondly- I 'get' what you're saying about location being paramount. I would state though- if you can afford it at all- to try to get a 3 bed, rather than a 2 bed- even if it is an apartment. Having an extra room- even if you have no intention to use it as a bedroom now- leaves you with options for the future (ignoring the fact that you say you don't want kids- how about seeing your career develop over the years and kicking yourself because you don't have the capacity to have a small home office each- surely this is something you should plan for?)

Thirdly- some people see apartments, and immediately management charges and unreasonable neighbours pop up like a light in their minds. A management company, if properly run- probably supplies you with services you'd not be able to organise or afford as a private individual. More often than not- your management fees will pay for various security features, possibly cameras, secure parking, buildings insurance, grounds maintenance etc etc. Sure- its a grand or two every year- but even in small developments without the economies of scale associated with larger developments- having a management company who are competent and get things done in a reasonable manner- is not something that anyone should look down on.

Forth- allied to third- owning a property outright- exposes you to a hell of a lot of on-going maintenance- that you may or may not, like to do. Having an apartment will still allow DIY- possibly not of the masonry variety- but you don't have to go around knocking block walls to prove your masculinity.

Fifth- as you've said yourself- location is paramount for you. Alongside the actual availability (or lack thereof) of property in particular areas- you have to look at the areas themselves. Every city has good and bad areas. If your perfect house is in the middle of a bad area- and you're in fear of your life or being mugged on a daily basis- even a beautiful property can be a millstone around your neck.

Buying a property- is a series of compromises- you have to see what best suits you- and what is available that ticks most of the boxes- what are definite deal breakers- and what are nice things that you'd like, but that you'd be willing to overlook in favour of other attributes. Before you even start looking anywhere- at anything- sit down with your partner- and agree together what your list of deal breakers are. They can be whatever you like- for me it would be the lack of fibre to the door- I've been using computers since the late 70s- and have had broadband by numerous methods, for over 2 decades- I couldn't live without a decent connection. What are your list of dealbreakers? Agree them. Set them in stone. Abide by them. Don't try and reason your partner out of one of his or hers- when you find a 'suitable' property. Its on the dealbreaker list. You both agreed it. If its on the list- the property is not to be on your list, period. Don't try to reason or argue for a particular property- move on, you'll only have it thrown back at you in an argument 5 years down the road- its not worth it.

One thing I would emphasise again- if you can afford a 3 bed- instead of a 2- get it. Even if its to be an office- do it. Aside from anything else- when it comes to sell the property in 10-15-20 years time- your 3 bed will be a million times more valuable to a future potential purchaser- than a 2 bed, irrespective of how well appointed the 2 bed may be.

Happy house hunting!

Thank you so much for taking the time for such a detailed response, and for all your information. I appreciate the help and information from all posters!

I can imagine it being very difficult to get a larger deposit together while renting at 1,200 or so a month. Not impossible by any means but it will take a long time during which I could be paying a smaller mortgage whilst still saving if you get me.

3 bedrooms is definitely something I will consider and will broaden my search!

I think doing research into management companies before even considering an apartment will be a must. There are some good threads on boards already with some sound advice there. Looking at accounts and such is important as is seeing the apartment complex at various times to gauge the noise levels and neighbours etc. Good pre-planning is absolutely necessary to avoid ending up with something poor.

There are certainly pros and cons to owning an apartment and a house. I am handy enough at DIY but would prefer somewhere that requires little ongoing maintenance and renovation. Somewhere to move in ready to go is a must and from what I have looked at apartments offer more in that regard than a majority of houses. Of course taking the area into account is essential too.

That is some excellent advise regarding dealbreakers. I will sit down with my GF and discuss at length what is right for us both.

House hunting is both daunting and exciting!

Indestructable

jelem wrote: »

buy house - remember apartments mostly have yearly FEEs which in most cases are not regulated- one of my own children had their
own sight of politics and attempted takeover of bank accounts by unauthorized persons involving themselves in "management committees" of their units -
HOLD out for house you will be better of in long run

Again it would seem a competent and efficient management company is vital. That being said one that is good now may not be in 5 or 10 years, I appreciate that it is a difficult one to call. Thank you for your advice.

Indestructable

ted1 wrote: »

Do you plan to have kids ? Could you live in a 2 bed apartment with a kid/kids is there enough living space for yourselves and all the equipment and toys that go with newborns/ toddlers/ kids

Kids won't factor into the equation at any point for us, but certainly could for people in similar situation to my own who may read this thread. Something to consider for those folk to be sure.